Composting Toilets: Legal?

[Dingfelder]

When was the last time you saw garbage from a can or dumpster spread around?

All the campsites I have been to have bearproof (or at least rodent proof) cans and dumpsters that no big or small animal is going to be able to 'spread it around'.  In town it is the residential cans that get dumped over and spread, with dirty diapers et.al.  The commercial garbage cans are usually emptied every 8 hours into a dumpster that no small animal is going to tip, and there is enough activity around to scare away animals.

This is such a small probability event that it is not worth stressing over.  And the ideal solution is not workable: everyone having enough acreage so nature can take care of the waste without pollution.

Pit toilet disposal works for cassette toilets but not for buckets or separating toilets.  And don't put contents from 'composting' toilets down a flush toilet.  The drying agent that you mix with the poop will swell and plug the works somewhere down the sewer line.

Our society has bigger worries than if 0.0001% of our poop is not going through the proper sewage treatment.

Left it all in, in the quote, because I couldn't agree more.

In nine-plus years living in semi-rural Oregon, where we have large numbers of deer, coyotes, turkey, squirrels, rabbits, possums, raccoons, rats, hawks, vultures, every kind of bird, the occasional cougar and bear, cows, goats, sheep, deer, llamas, chickens, guinea hens, geese, horses, snakes, and whatever you could ever think of to startle you in the garden, out on your deck, or on a walk in the woods, I've seen our garbage, always full of food and gardening scraps and daily bags of dog poop from our four dogs, overturned exactly once.

This is not a big or realistic problem.

Meantime, we are all drinking from wells.  And our sewage flows out through the ground. The same ground all those animals are pooping on 24/7.  Natural and domestic. Plus imported/artificial fertilizers.

We seem to be fine.  Soil and water testing defines us as fine too.

Let's not let our worst-case scenarios substitute in as our definition of the norm.

 

[Dingfelder]

That is the opinion of one employee at one authority. Other authorities will have different rules. Maybe other employees will have different opinions
Using a composting toilet should be regulated. So much can go wrong.

Unfortunately, many if not most composting systems go wrong.  Composting requires, among other things, what people are least likely to provide -- sustained and consistent high temperatures, and time.  

As well as volume, though some folks get that together.

Composting is a more complex activity than most people probably think it is.

 

[Blanch]

That is the opinion of one employee at one authority. Other authorities will have different rules. Maybe other employees will have different opinions
Using a composting toilet should be regulated. So much can go wrong.

Actually I requested a legal opinion from the head of the board, in writing, from a California legal authority for waste management. You can contact the legal authority where you live or camp. In California they are only legal with an approved waste management plan.

I took the time to ask a friend to ask her board for a written response to questions online here. I received a legal opinion based on California Solid Waste Management laws and regulations.

Feel free to get a legal opinion from another waste management facility.

This question has been asked many times here. It is illegal to dump compost from a composting toilet or human waste into the solid waste management system. That means you can not legally throw away, into any trash can that gets transferred to a solid waste facility, human waste.




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[Weight]

It is illegal in that specific management authority.

 

[Blanch]

It is illegal in that specific management authority.

It is illegal in California.
That is the specific management authority that is quoted, after they consulted California law.

I don’t know about other states.




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[Txjaybird]

This debate has already been done here a hundred times. I doubt anyone has anything new to add to it.

THANK YOU LENNY!

I RECKON THE NEXT BIG WHO HAW WILL BE METHANE GAS.

YUP I CAN SEE IT NOW.  WELL  I RECKON WE WILL HAVE TO CARRY LITTLE NOTEBOOKS AND PENS.  THEN NOTE WHEN WE PASSED GAS,  WHERE WE WERE WHEN WE PASSED GAS ,THE LENGTH  OF TIME IT TOOK  AND WHAT FOODS WE HAD EATEN PREVIOUSLY.

KINDA LIKE A TRUCKERS LOG BOOK.  WHAT THE LOAD IS.......WHERE IT WAS PICKED UP.........HOW MUCH FUEL/GAS WAS INVOLVED......AT WHAT LOCATION WAS/IS IT DELIVERED.

I THOUGHT VAN DWELLING WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A WAY TO LIVE FREE?  THAT'S WHAT I GET FOR THINKING INSTEAD OF DOING.

JEWELL ANN

WHILE I DO AGREE WITH THE OP THAT HUMAN WASTE DISSPOSAL IS A CONCERN.   I CAN ONLY HOPE THAT ALL ADULTS MAINTAIN A RESONABLE EFFORT TO DISPOSE OF THEIR BODILY WASTES IN A MANNER THAT WILL NOT CAUSE HARM TO OTHERS OR THE ENVIRONMENT.

 

[Txjaybird]

This debate has already been done here a hundred times. I doubt anyone has anything new to add to it.

THANK YOU LENNY!

I RECKON THE NEXT BIG WHO HAW WILL BE METHANE GAS.

YUP I CAN SEE IT NOW.  WELL  I RECKON WE WILL HAVE TO CARRY LITTLE NOTEBOOKS AND PENS.  THEN NOTE WHEN WE PASSED GAS,  WHERE WE WERE WHEN WE PASSED GAS ,THE LENGTH  OF TIME IT TOOK  AND WHAT FOODS WE HAD EATEN PREVIOUSLY.

KINDA LIKE A TRUCKERS LOG BOOK.  WHAT THE LOAD IS.......WHERE IT WAS PICKED UP.........HOW MUCH FUEL/GAS WAS INVOLVED......AT WHAT LOCATION WAS/IS IT DELIVERED.

I THOUGHT VAN DWELLING WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A WAY TO LIVE FREE?  THAT'S WHAT I GET FOR THINKING INSTEAD OF DOING.

JEWELL ANN

WHILE I DO AGREE WITH THE OP THAT HUMAN WASTE DISPOSAL IS A CONCERN.   I CAN ONLY HOPE THAT ALL ADULTS MAINTAIN A RESONABLE EFFORT TO DISPOSE OF THEIR BODILY WASTES IN A MANNER THAT WILL NOT CAUSE HARM TO OTHERS OR THE ENVIRONMENT.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

It is illegal in California.

It's California, where cities hire people to check your garbage can for proper recycling and fine you if not compliant.
But let the homeless and drug addicts dump their pee, sh!t, and used needles anywhere they want.

Sure got their priorities straight.

 

[Weight]

My disposal of a single use **** bag into a trash can is equivalent to a very dirty diaper into the same trash can. I have spent too much time searching for any reference to it being illegal to dispose of a diaper into a trash stream. The EPA classifies diapers as solid waste, not hazardous. I found a few references where some communities are experimenting with recycling soiled diapers. And there are different regulations in some communities covering group homes such as extended care and hospitals. Most communities that have street side containers in the shopping district have a regulation that they are not for household trash. I searched my way through the california regulations. I can't find any reference to it being illegal to dispose of a soiled diaper in a trash stream. Except here on this forum. My **** goes into the trash can until I'm arrested.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

If you have children and are doing this if it is against the law one for sanitary reasons, and it is likely if you do not have a proper disposal system, you may be subject to problems there. Just a heads up. Shouting the law does not apply to me because I interpret it differently won't do any good as one is only trying to justify their actions and that's not a defense.

The important point to note here is to use the pit toilets if you are on the road, not the trash cans.

The next is the possible solution down the road. If someone who designs these systems on a large scale says they will try to figure out a solution that is hope for the future which is a good thing. If the problem persists they may pass a law to inspect RVs that don't have obvious holding tank systems without warrant when found on Federal land camped more than 500 feet from a pit toilet. The LTVA's already require that so it's a quick jump to extend it because there are now a lot of people doing it and a lot of pathogens being dumped into the landfill.

 

[lenny flank]

Meh, I've never heard of anyone being arrested for dropping **** in a dumpster.

So I won't worry about it.

 

[LoveCareThinkDo]

I want to remind people that BLM rules allow for you to dig a "cat hole" to put poop in. I have read the rules, and they have no restrictions on how big the hole can be (as long as it is at least 6 inches deep) or how much poop can go in there. They do not say that you can't put toilet paper or "drying agent" in the hole with the poop. So, it seems to me that the one legal solution to this issue is to simply dig a really deep "cat hole," at least 200 feet from the nearest water source (which includes even dry washes) and put all your poop in there at the end of your 14 days. Naturally, you would have to empty any plastic bags, as leaving the plastic bags would be considered littering. 

Now, would I want to camp in an area where lots of people have buried tons of poop?  Ahh helll noooo! But that is completely legal. And not that damn much trouble, if you buy a real shovel. 

In most of the areas where I have camped so far, the areas where it is possible to get a vehicle for camping is far exceeded by the empty area where no one can reasonably camp. This means, for every square mile of camping area, there are hundreds of square miles of non-camping areas where it is completely legal to bury all your poop, where it will never bother anyone or anything at all. If you are only willing to schlep your poop a few hundred yards out past where anyone normally goes, and then dig a reasonably deep hole. 

If you do do this, I would recommend using plain wood shavings or sawdust (or even just dirt) as your "drying agent" in your (not really) composting toilet, rather than non-organic cat litter.

For all those who are concerned that this will lead to pathogens getting into the ground water. That is absolutely not a problem. I used to work at the Kansas City water department's testing lab. They used fine sand beds for the final filter before the water goes to the houses. That filters out all pathogens completely. The desert is hundreds of times deeper than any filter bed used at any water department. All that is going to happen is that the poop, along with any pathogens and organic drying agent, are going to break down (yes, over many many years) and those nutrients are going to be added to the soil. Are you going to "upset the balance" of the desert ecology? Not really, because that is going to happen really, really slowly, and in an area where there aren't really many plants anyway. (If you picked a spot away from a wash, it will be away from most plants in the desert.) And then those nutrients are going to slowly spread around and contribute to the general good health of the entire ecosystem over the course of hundreds of years. So, in the end, it is actually a good thing. If you do it correctly. 

If you are in a forested area, then the trees will thank you. 


I feel it is necessary to remind people that dumping a black (or even gray) water tank is never legal on BLM land. That is expressly forbidden, even in cat holes. 

Personally, I chose to use a porta-potty and empty it at a dump station. Where I have gone so far, they let me dump it at a much reduced rate because it is just a porta-potty instead of a giant black tank. 


Finally, if anyone has more specific, actual information that contradicts what I have said, I would love to see it. However, I don't really care what your personal definition of "cat hole" is. It is not defined in the rules.

 

[highdesertranger]

a cat hole by definition is single use. more than single use and it's called a latrine. I use cat holes but it's only single use, never more than one use in a single hole. highdesertranger

 

[owl]

" I want to remind people that BLM rules allow for you to dig a "cat hole" to put poop in. I have read the rules, and they have no restrictions on how big the hole can be (as long as it is at least 6 inches deep) or how much poop can go in there. They do not say that you can't put toilet paper or "drying agent" in the hole with the poop. So, it seems to me that the one legal solution to this issue is to simply dig a really deep "cat hole," at least 200 feet from the nearest water source (which includes even dry washes) and put all your poop in there at the end of your 14 days. Naturally, you would have to empty any plastic bags, as leaving the plastic bags would be considered littering." 

 HDR, seems your definition may not be correct at least according to BLM.

 

[Weight]

Would someone post a link to a real law where it states it illegal to put a soiled diaper in a regular trash can? Not an opinion on a web forum.

 

[highdesertranger]

all I said was a cat hole was single use. a multiple use hole is called a latrine. highdesertranger

 

[Weight]

HDR is correct. A cat hole is single use.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

People have been RVing for many years before the nomads looking to live free decided to join them in whatever vehicle gets them there. RVs have built in septic systems which go into community septic systems and the waste is properly taken care of. Campers who stay at campgrounds often have pit toilets or even flush. No problems there.

Tiny homes on land can compost properly if they have the system set up to do so and if they are diligent about it. That is also safe.

Since the promotion of pooping in a bucket and dumping in the trash cans has excellerated due to YouTube videos, it is becoming a problem and it is unsafe, as is dumping from a separating toilet or composting toilet that doesn't compost. Why worry about global wraming or RoundUp or all the other things we can do without? Just cause you want free and you're to lazy to drive your **** to the proper disposal area doesn't justify your actions. One adult day's worth of shitting is likely 25 times or more than that of a baby. 10 adults 250 times the volume. An apple is not an orange.

A porta-potty costs around $100 or so. Not that difficult to use and safer.

BTW, I did wash my child's baby diapers some 40 years ago because I do care. And I've picked up my share of trash at campgrounds over the years.

 

[Weight]

For those of us that haven't had babies. I raised 8 and changed diapers on all. It is a lot of **** from one baby.
Toilets and restrooms and holding tanks in RVs are a rather new thing.
Wow, calling us out as lazy and wanting free. I don't know if that is right philosophy to bring to this forum.
The EPA approved; Disposing of one use bag in the trash stream is less dangerous than disposing a tank of septic waste into a sewer system. Where do you think the solids and pharmaceuticals, and plastics go from there?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

. . . pooping in a bucket and dumping in the trash cans  . . . is becoming a problem and it is unsafe,

One adult day's worth of shitting is likely 25 times or more than that of a baby.

Can you cite any examples of depositing poop in a trash can has been declared a problem?

There are almost 4,000,000 babies born in the US every year.  Newborns use 10 - 20 diapers per day.  How many van dwellers using a bucket and depositing in the trash?

P.S. Washing diapers uses another scarce resource: clean water.