Ultra-Capacity Lithium Batteries

[Treknik]

Here's another luggable battery pack contender.

LiFePO4, 12V, 100Ah, 1200 Watt Hours, with inverter and charge controller. 22lbs.
Quite expensive at $1200 however the battery in it sells for $850.

https://www.bioennopower.com/collec...ation/products/1200-w-hr-power-pack-bpp-m1200

 

[John61CT]

Nice find! I don't see a link for the replacement?

Yes $850 for 100AH LFP is only a bit at the high end.

Say $50 for the box + wiring, $100 each for the inverter, solar controller and mains charger.

Not bad. . .

I would want a faster shore charger myself to minimize charging pitstops or gennie runtime, that built-in one would take 3-4 hours when depleted.

 

[John61CT]

Found it https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/12v-series-lifepo4-batteries?page=2

Amazing to me all these vendors sell chargers that put out 14.6V.

I guess they'd prefer their product didn't last so long

 

[RVTravel]

This one is ex. pen. sive.

https://www.inergysolar.com/product/kodiak/

Product Specs Internal Battery Capacity: 1,100 Watts (90 Amps at 12.6 Volts)
AC Inverter: 1,500 Watts, Pure Sine WaveInput: 11-30VDC charging port up to 600W maximum.AC Output: (6) 110VAC plugs, (1) 30 Amp RV plug. 1,100W (10 Amps) maximum continuous output per AC outlet, 3,000W starting surge maximum. 1,500W total limit for combined AC output. Pure sine wave inverter.DC Output: (2) 12VDC universal car sockets. 180 Watts (15 Amps) maximum output per socket. (8) USB outlets (using USB car socket adapters, 2 not included) 5VDC, 1-2.1 Amp port & 1-1 Amp port regulated, 3.1 Amps maximum per adapter. (2) 12VDC Basecamp LED light ports, maximum 10 LEDs per port.

 

[John61CT]

The Capacity spec is always suspect to me

1,100 Watts (90 Amps at 12.6 Volts)

Neither watts nor amps is a static quantity but an instantaneous flow or "burn rate".

watt hours or "amp hours" at 12.6V would make sense, but only comparable if at the C/20 rate (4.5A sustained for 20 hours)

Any link available to a replacement battery?

 

[tripper]

I bought an Ebay 100ah LiFePo4 for around $650. It is grp 27 sized battery case with built in BMS. Has been working well for several months now. I think it sits at 12.8 volts. Though probably bad I have charged it at rates up to 50 amps @ 14.0 volts, so far no problems noted with it. My solar puts out up to 100 amps, but ramps up slowly as the sun rises, so normally about 25 amps is going into it. This battery definitely outperforms my Trojan Deep Cycle grp 31 12v. The only real description I have is it is a blue battery case with brass female threaded terminals with two male bolts included in a thread size/pitch that doesn't exist in America.

 

[John61CT]

High amp going in is no harm when SoC is low.

All good except personally I'd bump charge volts down to 13.8V for longevity.

If not immediately drawn down then even lower, not good for them to sit full. No float either. How are you ensuring that, just stopping at 14V?

I assume you also have a lead bank.

How/when/how long are the two combined vs isolated?

That's a lot of solar, how much space, what sort of rig?

 

[Belinda2]

The Anker linked product is 434 W/H
434 divided by 12.2v =35.58 AH capacity
434 divided by 5v (USB voltage) = 86.8Ah capacity
Huge capacity?
How much does it cost?
Here's 70Ah of lead acid AGM for 120$
https://www.amazon.com/UPG-UB12350-...=UTF8&qid=1492839471&sr=8-2&keywords=35Ah+agm

What would we do without you? Thank you!

 

[andi]

I was looking online for solar-compatible batteries and thought I'd check Costco. I found out they carry Goal Zero Yeti 1000 Lithium Portable Power Station for $999, which is more than $300 less than you can get it anywhere else (including S&H). My understanding is that all I would need to add is the solar panels, and that's the cheap part.

Is this overkill for a small camper?
Could I put together a similar system from parts for less?
What would be the ideal solar panel configuration for this? (Costco does custom Grape Solar configurations, fwiw.)

One nice thing is that you can charge it to 100% by plugging into AC while you have access to AC, and then just top it off with solar while on the road.

 

[John61CT]

> Is this overkill for a small camper?

Size of the living space is irrelevant, question is how many watt hours of electricity you use between charging cycles. Google "solar energy budget", list devices, how many hours per day...

> Could I put together a similar system from parts for less?

Yes, and likely once you learn about the details, each component will be more appropriately sized for your needs.

> What would be the ideal solar panel configuration for this?

Usually as many watts as you can fit on your van's roof, space is the limiting factor.

So-called portable style, start at 2x 100w folding "suitcase".

> One nice thing is that you can charge it to 100% by plugging into AC while you have access to AC, and then just top it off with solar while on the road.

True for any good setup, but I believe you'll need a more powerful charger than Yeti includes.

 

[andi]

Thanks. That's good information. Guess I'll have to study this more.

 

[sometimesido]

andi, here's a video about that yeti lithium 1000.

260 watts of solar.



description: will prowse reviews yeti lithium 1000. can run microwave cooking a potato, fan on, led light, and charge laptop.

 

[RVTravel]

It's impressive how Goal Zero is putting out the lithium ion batteries...up to over 3000 watt hours in size..whoa.

 

[John61CT]

See that's how noobs get fooled into paying for overpriced gear.

Where did you get this misinformation?

Looking again at the specs, it's 1000wh capacity, or 80AH at 12V.

The inverter supposedly handles 3000A surge demand, but that's nothing to do with the battery storage capacity.

The built-in shore power charger takes 15 hours to get it recharged!

LFP charge acceptance would allow it to refill with a decent charger in under an hour no problem, but they don't have any external posts to allow that.

The built-in solar is PWM not MPPT.

Just choose a G31 100AH battery

BattleBorn if you really need LFP, or

a Firefly Oasis for resiliance against PSOC

Or whatever batt you want to start with

and a G31 box to put it in.

Maybe won't be cheaper all up in the end, but you can pick and choose the components that suit **your** needs, later upgrade each as needed, as you can afford.

Nothing is "one size fits all" in this arena.

 

[tripper]

High amp going in is no harm when SoC is low. - I think the battery states 50 amps rate is max it should be charged

All good except personally I'd bump charge volts down to 13.8V for longevity. - Roger

If not immediately drawn down then even lower,  not good for them to sit full. No float either.  How are you ensuring that,  just stopping at 14V? - The Victron allows me to set the bulk/absorb voltage and the rate of current going in. I may drop the float to 12.9V, being an RV there is normally a draw on the power from small parasitic loads, I need the LiFePo4 to be full when sunset hits. The battery never really sits full long, as the 12v compressor fridge pulls quite a bit of power overnight (40Ah or so).

I assume you also have a lead bank. - Currently have only the one battery installed, I just change the setting on the controller depending on whether I am using the LiFePo4 or the Trojan grp 31 deep cycle, the battery box only fits 1, I need to install a bracket for the LiFePo4 to sit in a cabinet. Just been testing out the LiFePo4, I am happy with it so now I am going to split the RV power grid, have the Trojan run all the lights, monitors, pumps etc, and have the LifEpO4 run the inverter, 12v compressor fridge, and any other high draw 12v items I need. They will be completely separate systems, I have the  smaller 160 watt panel and sh!tty RV converter with its own MPPT run the RV electrics (propane fridge, water pump, led lights) via the 12v Trojan, and the 3 house panels 915 watts run the inverter setup w/LiFePo4 (no converter, pure solar). Also have an additional 160 watt portable panel with its own MPPT that runs the LiFePo4 also.

How/when/how long are the two combined vs isolated? N/A

That's a lot of solar, how much space,  what sort of rig? Small 24 foot 5th wheel, made my own tilting mount with 3 house panels.

 

[RVTravel]

The Will Prowse guy also dumped his lithium ion stuff for an AGM battery.

 

[John61CT]

separate banks

When the Trojan dies expand the LFP bank make it all one big bank, much simpler and more efficient.

 

[tripper]

When the Trojan dies expand the LFP bank make it all one big bank,  much simpler and more efficient.

I recently split my RV system. The Trojan 105 AH runs all the original trailer stuff, fridge, water pump, lights, vent fans and a couple of 12v outlets. The Trojan is kept charged by the 160 watt panel, the trucks 12v alternator when running, and a old school converter when plugged in and the Trojan sits in the original outside vented battery holder. I put the LiFePo4 100 AH battery under RV couch, it runs the 1000 watt inverter and two high amperage 12v outlets, one of which runs Whynter 12v fridge full time and also recharges my ebike battery (300 watt charger) and my laptop. The LiFePo4 is hooked up to 915 watts of rooftop and 160 watt of portable solar. I set the Solar Controller to 13.8 bulk/absorb and 13.1 float, the battery seems to be sitting at 13.1 volts when full (with 1-2 amp draw no charging). I only have the LiFePo4 on solar power, so I have no worries about car alternator driving voltage high or the old cheap converter/charger blowing it up. I also like this setup as in very cold weather I can turn off charging to the LiFePo4 if needed but still have the basic systems running.

 

[John61CT]

As I said, eventually migrating to a single bank will make your setup simpler and more efficient and give you more total capacity.

 

[tripper]

As I said, eventually migrating to a single bank will make your setup simpler and more efficient and give you more total capacity.

Since LiFePo4 batteries are very expensive, and my money is finite,this battery is an experiment. I will try it for a couple of years, if it works flawlessly and I don't end up frying it I may upgrade to a larger system.   So far the setup is meeting all my needs.

The system right now is simple to me, it just works, I really don't monitor it or anything, just equalize and water the Trojan every year.  Otherwise it is all transparent. I do have the LiFePo4 system power the RVs 120V system, so with a flick of the switch it powers up the 120v system in the trailer and the converter, which will charge the Trojan more if needed too, since I have excess solar that works well.

I recently noticed the 85 AMP Victron Solar Controller has built in relay terminals that can be programmed to switch at a custom voltage, which would be good for making a protection circuit if needed.

I do really like the LiFePo4 battery, it holds a consistent 13.1 volts and seems to have triple the capacity of the Trojan battery, it seems as heavy loads don't drain it nearly as fast, I know the voltage sag is much less on the Whynter fridge when running than on the Trojan, and the Trojan is in great shape, holding a consistent 12.8 volts charged. On the inverter the voltage sag is over 1/2 a volt higher with big loads, i.e. 800 watt load on lead acid might be 12.1 volts vs 12.7 on the lithium.