UFO Problem

[Optimistic Paranoid]

BTW, now that you've got a Ford, I recommend that you join an online Ford forum for additional support.  This is the one I belong to:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.phpThey've got a sub-forum devoted to the Econoline vans.

 

[29chico]

When I see a "ghost in the machine" thing like your wipers coming on when the engine cuts out I clean and rough up all the grounds that I can find and then add a bunch more.  Not very expensive and easy to do.  Even if it does not solve your current issue it will very likely prevent other problems from cropping up later on down the road. If you are interested in doing so I will post up a new thread on upgrading the ground system.

I am a trained auto diagnostician.

 

[Vagabound]

When I see a "ghost in the machine" thing like your wipers coming on when the engine cuts out I clean and rough up all the grounds that I can find and then add a bunch more.  Not very expensive and easy to do.  Even if it does not solve your current issue it will very likely prevent other problems from cropping up  later on down the road. If you are interested in doing so I will post up a new thread on upgrading the ground system.

I am a trained auto diagnostician.

EDITED:

Grounds seem like one issue and a replacement coil a different issue. Again, how might this be related to a coil?

Yes, I'd be interested in that info on upgrading the ground system. At present, I'm not able to spend nearly as much time in here as I used to and so would likely overlook it.  So, if it isn't too much trouble, when you create the new thread, if you could post the link to it in this thread, I'd really appreciate that.  Thanks for the ideas.

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More "ghost in the machine" info: Again, may or may not be related ... while going down the road, when I turn on the heater, sometimes it comes on, sometimes not. Sometimes it comes on 10 minutes after I switched it on. It doesn't have one of those delays to reach a suitable temp.

It is seeming more and more to me like someone was under the dash causing mischief. That someone could be HDR's preferred culprit -- aftermarket stereo installer -- or another "agent" like years of desert dust blowing in the engine compartment and in windows left open or cracked.

In addition to all the good ideas, I'm beginning to feel like I need some qualified automotive electrical technician to spend some time checking to see if everything is hooked up correctly. However, for money reasons more than anything else, I just really hate to go to a shop and say, "Would you mind going under the hood and under the dash on an unlimited fishing expedition looking for unspecified things?" My limited experience tells me that even highly qualified techs like that don't always know what to do or where to look.

Vagabound

 

[GotSmart]

More "ghost in the machine" info:  Again, may or may not be related ... while going down the road, when I turn on the heater, sometimes it comes on, sometimes not.  Sometimes it comes on 10 minutes after I switched it on.  It doesn't have one of those delays to reach a suitable temp.

Blower motor controller module / resister. 

About $12 at rock auto.

 

[MikeRuth]

You seem to have enough knowledge and tools and support from this forum, Unless time is against you I think you can track this down.

I have to agree with many here that it sounds like a bad ground connection of chaffing on a wire etc. yeah it takes time to track wires down but in the end I feel you can beat this issue.

Mike R

P.S for us to help even better maybe post up a list of whats happening so we can all assist with checking items off.

 

[highdesertranger]

x2 you can do this, and don't buy a thing until you check everything out. highdesertranger

 

[Vagabound]

Thanks for all of the encouragement. I really appreciate it. 

I'm normally pretty confident about being able to do things, but on vehicles, not as much. And on the electrical systems in vehicles, even less.

Maybe we can start at the simplest level. When we talk about ground wires, the only one that I'm familiar with in any vehicle is the black wire coming off the battery to the frame. I'm assuming based on the conversation here that there are other ground wires coming from other components. However, I have no idea which are important to check, where they are, or how to find them.

The other issue that I foresee is not being able to / not wanting to remove the dash. So, I'm not sure how much of this electrical troubleshooting I can do with the dash in place.

So, if someone could suggest a simple place to start,  I'll try to tackle this myself.

Vagabound

 

[GotSmart]

Post a list, and the problems can be addressed by number.  

If you include vehicle, model and year, perhaps youtube video instructions.

 

[B and C]

My gut is telling me that on a 23 year old vehicle (IIRC that you have), used in delivery service is that the ignition switch could be worn out.  The only check that I can think of for this is to wiggle the key while the engine is running to see if it stumbles or dies while you do this.  Others may have a better (and easier?) quick check for this.

 

[Vagabound]

My gut is telling me that on a 23 year old vehicle (IIRC that you have), used in delivery service is that the ignition switch could be worn out.  The only check that I can think of for this is to wiggle the key while the engine is running to see if it stumbles or dies while you do this.  Others may have a better (and easier?) quick check for this.

I've wondered about the ignition as well. One odd thing I have noticed.  There's an outer covering to the ignition switch. It's a faceplate of sorts that the key goes through. It's also the part of the ignition that you grab with your thumb and fingers to turn after the key is inserted. Long description because I don't know what that thing is called. In any case, although the internal ignition pieces do not, that piece almost spins freely around. I can twist it around 360 degrees. Otherwise, the ignition seems to operate normally.

Is that an indication of anything important, or just a sign of a lot of use, age, etc.?

Vagabound

 

[Vagabound]

P.S. to my post above:

What I'm describing is the buzzer that comes on when you have the key in the ignition and the door open. That buzzer has almost never worked in this truck. However the mechanic who inspected it said that there was a buzzer on and it wouldn't turn off. Eventually it did I guess. I suspect it's all the same buzzer.

So why am I talking about the silly buzzer? Because today something dawned on me. I noticed when I put the key in the ignition, the buzzer operated normally, meaning I could hear it. Then I decided to wiggle the key in the ignition. The buzzer went off and came back on repeatedly.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if this seemingly small thing is connected to the overall problem. By the ignition, I mean the hole that you stick your key in and the doodad that's behind the hole. 

Do the mechanics among us think that it's possible, maybe even likely, that a malfunctioning ignition could cause the engine to stop while you're going down the road, the wipers to come on at random times, _and_ the door open buzzer to malfunction?

If yes, maybe I found the guilty party.

Vagabound

 

[Almost There]

The wipers are almost certainly a secondary problem but the buzzer and the engine quitting spontaneously and randomly could very well be ignition switch. At 23 years old, if it hasn't already been replaced it's certainly overdue.

I've seen a lot of delivery drivers with a half ton of keys on the key chain. The sheer weight of them dangling away while the ignition key is in will cause a lot of wear. That and delivery trucks tend to be shut down often/started repeatedly scenarios.

 

[rvpopeye]

Back when I was learning about vehicle mechanics from an old timer expert I knew every time I asked him a question about what we were doing the first thing he always said was
"What do you think?"
Then he would let me know if I was right or tell me what to try next.
He very rarely did anything himself , just guided my hands with his words.

I now realize he was teaching me to think for myself as he wouldn't always be there telling me what to do .

So ,what do you think?

 

[SternWake]

I am not sure how or where the ignition switch is located on a Ford. My Dodge's ignition switch is located a the base of the steering column, with a rod coming from the portion where the key actually inserts into the column. It can be adjusted up and down, and if misadjusted will act funny.

It has 5 or 6 wires leading into/out of it. One can easily see if any of these wires have been getting way too hot, but perfect wire insulation does not indicate that there is no problem.

I would find Ignition switch connector, remove it, and spray some Caig DeOxit d5 spray onto the conductive surfaces.

Please do not be one of those people who sees the presence of Dielectric grease and believes that there is simply no way for the conductive surfaces to have oxidized, or that the spring loaded pins and sockets and mating perfectly and are in pristine condition because of its presence. Dielectric grease does not conduct electricity, it is NON conductive, and is simply to prevent oxygen and moisture from oxidizing the conductive surfaces of the connector.

Far too many people believe the opposite and that this magic grease somehow ensures good electricity flow.


Also do not believe that other electronics spray cleaners do anything but flush old grease or detritus from the connector. CRC QED cleaner and similar do NOTHING, in regards to removing Oxidation from conductive surfaces. They are good however for flushing old grease, but if the grease is really old and has been exposed to heat because of a poor electrical connection, it will be hard to flush out and some mechanical abrading will be necessary.
The Caig Deoxit D5 spray is too expensive for use as a grease detritus flushing agent, but will accomplish it.

Any wacky electrical issues, all grounds should be located, removed cleaned and retightened before suspicion gets relegated to other components. The Caig Deoxit d5 spray should be secondary. If one really does not want to completely remove a suspect ground, then loosening, spraying with d5 and retightening is the next best option.

The Deoxit D5 is magic electric juice. I wish I had used it on my phone USB charging cables prior to flying across country for 2 weeks. I would then not be the proud owner of a new 40$ Phone battery, but I am enjoying its capacity.

https://www.amazon.com/CAIG-DeOxit-...qid=1481321281&sr=8-2&keywords=caig+deoxit+d5

https://www.amazon.com/DenTek-Profe...=1481321075&sr=8-2&keywords=dentek+brush&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-Craft...&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=tamiya+precision+swabs

The three above products, when used on any electrical connector, can almost eliminate it, as the source of an issue.

If they do not solve the issue, they will prevent the connector from becoming one.

https://www.amazon.com/DeoxITKit-In...d=1481321528&sr=8-2&keywords=caig+deoxit++kit

 

[29chico]

The actual ignition switch is down the steering column a ways on your van.   What a lot of folks think is the ignition switch, where the ignition key goes in, is a mechanism that moves a rod that goes down the steering column and actuates the ignition switch mechanism.

Sometimes I will go into a wrecking yard and dive into an aspect of a vehicle that I am not familiar with before I do so on my own rig.  If you get a good look at the above mentioned parts (take pictures) on a wrecked van with the steering column covers off you would have a much better idea of what you are dealing with.  If your rig has a tilt wheel be sure to study up on another tilt wheel van as the system is a bit more complicated.  If you do some research on the range of years that share the same components of the starting switch system by being creative and looking up in an online auto parts system you can probably look for a fairly wide range of years to look for in a yard as finding another '93 to learn on may be difficult.

If you do go to a wrecking yard, following all of the wires from the negative side of the battery to where they go would help you understand the ground system better also.  Be aware that a battery will not be in place in a wrecked van so look at your own rig's battery setup first so you know what is the negative battery terminal.

 

[rvpopeye]

Some of the other ground wires might look like a piece of flat braided wire.
Usually found between the engine and the firewall , frame , and other locations.

Pretty much any wire , flat or round , attached to the engine (like under a bolt/nut) is probably a ground. You could also ADD grounds if you don't find any . The bigger the wire the better.
The flat braided ones are usually used in places where the two connection points move in relation to each other.
Frame , body , engine , starter , battery...... all benefit from a good common ground.

Like Stern said , clean the points of contact and replace the wires if corroded.

 

[GotSmart]

I have had to replace more than one ignition lock cylinder over the years.  

Some are quite pricy, so be sure of the diagnosis.  

Wrecking yard or Rock Auto.

 

[Vagabound]

AT:  Very good points about old ignition switches and heavy keys, etc.

rvpopeye:  You asked, "So ,what do you think?"  I think that I learned to think for myself many years ago.  That said, the method you mentioned for teaching has a lot of merit.  Thanks for the info on identifying grounds.  Honestly, that is one of my largest obstacles here -- no idea where to look for grounds (area or component).

SternWake:  You said, "Please do not be one of those people who sees the presence of Dielectric grease and believes that ..."  Don't worry about me ... I can't even spell dyelektric. ;-)  Thanks for the info on cleaning contacts and the links to appropriate products.

GotSmart:  Thanks for the heads-up on cost of a new ignition.  I have a somewhat related issue in that, somewhere over time, the passenger door ended up keyed differently than the driver's door and ignition.  I'm thinking that replacing the ignition and both door locks to match might not be a bad idea.  Thoughts?

Vagabound

 

[GotSmart]

Locksmiths can work wonders.  Especially if you bring the lock to them.  

A rekey is not that expensive.  They can usually fix the ignition lock problem also.  It is worth asking.

 

[rvpopeye]

No , I meant do you think the your investigation points to the Ig switch ?