Too many options and decisions, flooring help, ideas, insight please.

[TucsonAZ]

This is starting to drive me mad as there's no "right" way of doing anything.  I'm super sensitive to chemicals so I'm building this in part to have a chemical free space.  I bought an all aluminum trailer but need to pull the particle board that's currently in it and replacing it with something chemical free.  I was thinking 1/4 aluminum diamond plate but I will need 6-7 sheets and it's $300+ per sheet.  So that leaves me with a tongue and groove pine and a thinner diamond plate over that.  In this case I would also need a flashing under the pine to keep it safe from the elements and such.  So do I just put down an underbelly and then insulation in the frame spaces, then the pine, then the aluminum on top of that?  This is what I'm sort of thinking starting with the underside:

1)  Rigid board insulation (four inches) to fill the "stud cavities", I would add two bands of aluminum angle the long way to keep it firmly in place.  
2)  After setting the insulation in place an aluminum flashing on the inside of the trailer.
3)  Tongue and groove pine on top of this.
4)  A thinner diamond plate aluminum floor.  

Do you see any flaws here?  Any better all natural type options?  Do you think the exposed rigid board foam would be fine on the under side dealing with the elements and road conditions?

It's either that or the same thing without the flashing and a much thicker diamond plate though I'm not sure what I would need to support the weight on the inside with 24" spacing on the cross supports.

 

[Motrukdriver]

Do you have issues with plastic?  If not then something like this maybe:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Woo...&terminal_id=eadecbc615b941e9b356f1c5ee443818

 

[TucsonAZ]

Do you have issues with plastic?  If not then something like this maybe:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Woo...&terminal_id=eadecbc615b941e9b356f1c5ee443818

Yeah, that's pretty toxic stuff, remember these are small spaces so it just isn't worth using toxic stuff in such a confined space.  Awesome suggestion though, that stuff looks great for what it's intended to do.

 

[Weight]

I would leave the original flooring, seal it well so nothing comes into your space. Then build over that. There are hypoallergenic paint type coatings. With your sensitivity you must know some of these.

 

[John61CT]

And only insulating between the framing will allow metal thermal bridging.

Need a continuous sheet over or under if you want it to be effective.

If no steel sheet below the foam, make sure to keep the floor accessible / removable for repairs.

 

[SondraRose]

I’m probably not as chemically sensitive as you, but I have used cork tiles with a water-based adhesive and a hard wax finish in a couple of small houses. In my current house, I have pre-finished cork tiles over the cement slab as a base and will put a cork floating floor (prefinished) over that. Could you use formaldehyde-free plywood as a base?

You may need someone else to do the work, but once dry, the materials are pretty inert. You also get some sound insulation this way. YMMV!

Also, I’m sure you know of this site already, but just in case:
http://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net/2016/04/zero-voc-sheathing.html

 

[duncanshannon]

Can you be a little more specific when you say "chemicals"? Which are you trying to avoid. Not to be difficult but EVERYTHING is a chemical. H2O (water) is a chemical compound. And water can be toxic. Toxicity is related to volume or quantity of exposure/ingestion. Think intoxication... Intoxicated. Poisoned. Try googling "toxicity" and reading. It's pretty straightforward stuff.

Sorry... I might be too literal. Just trying to refine the conversation.


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[highdesertranger]

with sheet aluminum diamond plate, it's going to be cold as hell in the winter and hotter than hell in the summer. highdesertranger

 

[TucsonAZ]

Can you be a little more specific when you say "chemicals"? Which are you trying to avoid. Not to be difficult but EVERYTHING is a chemical. H2O (water) is a chemical compound. And water can be toxic. Toxicity is related to volume or quantity of exposure/ingestion.   Think intoxication... Intoxicated. Poisoned. Try googling "toxicity" and reading. It's pretty straightforward stuff.

Sorry... I might be too literal. Just trying to refine the conversation.


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I know of few people that have gotten ill from smelling water but I guess if you wanted to be super technical you are correct and I should have know to be more specific online.  As a rule I mean petrochemicals, lab created chemicals and so on, the types you would find in plywood or many types of plastics, paints, insulation and such.

 

[duncanshannon]

I know of few people that have gotten ill from smelling water but I guess if you wanted to be super technical you are correct and I should have know to be more specific online.  As a rule I mean petrochemicals, lab created chemicals and so on, the types you would find in plywood or many types of plastics, paints, insulation and such.

[emoji56][emoji1303]


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[TucsonAZ]

with sheet aluminum diamond plate,  it's going to be cold as hell in the winter and hotter than hell in the summer.  highdesertranger

I guess it's going to have to be one of those things, 4 inches of R6 per inch polyiso is more than I've seen anybody else use and I don't see why diamond plate flooring on the inside would really make it all that much hotter especially on the other side of 3-4 inches of insulation.

 

[gargoyle]

I would just leave the floor as is, and seal out the nasties with the sheet aluminum.

Tearing out the whole floor can be way more work and structurally (near) impossible to do. The flooring is used to hold the framework true and square. 9 times out of 10 the frame is floored first, then the sidewalls are set on top the floor. So to completely remove the floor, you need to strip the walls off the trailer. Tweaking the frame is totally possible while ripping out the flooring. Which in turn makes everything weaker. The frame can twist, the tires wont run true, etc, etc.
Disturbing the flooring will also emit lots of yucky dust and chemicals. You will die.

Lay in some tight fitting aluminum panels, seal everything with a hypoallergenic caulk, and you have your  safe zone.
PS- you're typing on a computer/phone  made from all kinds of petrochems???
So, I wont expect a reply.

 

[TucsonAZ]

I'm using a quantum computer so we're good : )  It's always funny though, if I said I had no arms as a double amputee war vet people wouldn't dare make the same jokes.  Guess it's good to be able to make fun of yourself.  

Maybe you're talking about super cheap trailers versus a higher end full tube framed one.  I know good trailer companies will sell you just the framed out version with no sides or floors but the low end companies that use top hat framing and such can't as they would fall apart.  If I tweak 5" a boxed aluminium frame pulling out the floor I think it's time to get a new trailer!

 

[John61CT]

I guess it's going to have to be one of those things, 4 inches of R6 per inch polyiso is more than I've seen anybody else use and I don't see why diamond plate flooring on the inside would really make it all that much hotter especially on the other side of 3-4 inches of insulation.

4" polyiso is a lot for the floor unless you're super-insulating for very efficient aircon in extreme heat.

For insulation against extreme cold, I would put 4" on the ceiling, 3" on the walls and 2" on the floor. Less but keep proportions if space is limited.

If both, then even all 'round.

Metal on the outside, whether sheets or tubing, or even on the inside is not a problem in itself.

The issue of metal conductivity is only relevant if penetrating what should be a continuous envelope of insulation, aka thermal bridging.

Obviously a rug or rubber matting would be more comfortable over metal in a living space.

A composite sandwich is a great approach, but you'd need to research adhesives, you may be sensitive to some of the newer high tech ones.

 

[breeze]

with sheet aluminum diamond plate,  it's going to be cold as hell in the winter and hotter than hell in the summer.  highdesertranger

Of ALL metals, with good strength and compact structures, AL would be the mildest conductor of heat, etc... And thin decor diamond plate would not have much metal mass to conduct anything significantly. I am not arguing any specific point, but AL almost seems neutral to the environment and you can fit 25% more living work stations with strong thin metal walls in the van work space.

What materials are you suggesting? Pretty much oem automotive interiors?

I was thinking similar to Diamond plate in strategic rub-areas, but sometimes I get tunneled in my thinking because there is so much to do in designing vehicle systems. But even automotive interiors will burn you when it's hot. Fortunately, my no window van stays pretty comfortable even in the South, so far (in hot or cold); so I don't want to screw that up in the process!!

Thanks 

 

[John61CT]

Thickness of the plate makes a difference in retaining temps (thermal mass) but *not* in conducting heat.

As long as your interior plating is *not* connected to the outside by metal (thermal bridging), "floating" separated by a good continuous insulation envelope and vapor barrier, use of metal inside should not be a problem.