The Future of Van Life

[Jack]

Is the future of van life in trouble?

A couple of months ago, I never even heard of van life.  Once I found out about it, each day solidifies my desire to do it.  So, as someone with fresh eyes, as I do more and more research about the life, I can't help but notice some disturbing negative trends that keep popping up along with the good things.

I know van life comes with a stigma.  I'm new, not naive.  I can deal with the stigma.  And I realize that there's an underbelly of van life from folks who give it a bad name.  Got it.  What culture/way of life/belief system/etc., doesn't have those kinds of people making life difficult for the rest of the good folks?  So, I'm not talking about this side of things when I ask if the future of van life is in trouble.  

I'm seeing van life being spoken about more and more in the media.  Even the stories that appear positive still have a smear/judgment about them.  Combine that with legislation that makes it difficult to live the van life without having to be sly about it, as well as the need for 'stealth,' and then throw in the newer stories of places like Florida making it (or trying to make it) illegal to live off grid at all.  (Or grow food, catch rain water, etc.,)  Living in a vehicle full-time is basically illegally everywhere as it is.  

So, when you consider 1) the growing trend of people opting to live in their vehicles (for whatever their reason), 2) the increasing popularity of van life being in the news, and 3) the innumerable number of YouTube and other social media accounts that are basically advertising van life and drawing attention to it, do you think the future of van life is in danger of being specifically addressed and legislated, declaring it to be illegal and punishable?  

If so, how soon, and what steps are you taking to prepare yourself?
If not, why?  

Again, I'm not naive.  I know van life - and the stigma that goes with it - have been around for a very long time.  But the trend, and the attention it's getting, is increasing all the time.  Am I being paranoid or am I seeing the possible reality of the future of van life?  Sometimes it takes fresh eyes on a thing...  I'm not worried and I still intend on living in a van.  I'm just pointing out what I'm seeing and wondering if there's anything to it.  It also has me questioning whether or not it would be smarter to go into van life quietly, and staying completely off social media (as I already am).

 

[Moxadox]

Jack, for one thing, the East Coast is not set up for van life, or off-grid living. I left North Carolina in 2015 and was amazed to find how much easier and freer life in the public lands of the West is. I've only gone back once, and couldn't wait to get out of that morass of humans and traffic and ordinances. No thank you. There's plenty of room in the high deserts.

Sometimes when people spend a lot of time considering the ins and outs of a thing, the downside can look pretty scary. If you are really truly fired up about getting out on the road, why not commit to a three month trial, with a failsafe plan if you find it's not for you? Three months will be sufficient for you to really experience the reality of living on the road, beyond the pink blush of a couple weeks' road trip.

In other words, it's time to stop intellectualizing and kick your butt out there for real. All your questions will then be answered.



The Dire Wolfess

 

[Jack]

Thanks for your thoughtful response for my wellbeing, Moxadox.  I can tell you honestly that I'm not concerned, worried, scared, or even questioning whether or not I'm going to live the van life.  I'm living it regardless because that's how sure I am that it's the life for me!  :::insert world's most positive and excited emoji here:::

I posted this question purely from a curiosity/conversation standpoint because of what I've observed and I'm curious if others have noticed the same thing or not.  ???   Should we be concerned and thinking about it?
Is it inevitable?  Impossible?  Or do you think van life will eventually become a validated way of life?  

I can't speak for the east coast personally, but I do know of several east coast vandwellers on YouTube who are loving the urban van life.

 

[lenny flank]

Meh, the experienced folks will always find a way. People have been vehicle-dwelling since the Model T Tin Can Camper Club, and they will continue to do so. Most of the troubles come from people who are quite frankly homeless and not really "vandwellers", and who bring most of their problems onto themselves. They will likely get swept out. Those of us who are actual nomads know how to keep under the radar and live unnoticed. We'll be just fine. And to be honest, we're just not enough of a nuisance that anybody will bother to expend the effort needed to find us. If we're not peeing in people's lawns, dumping our shit in the street, and panhandling everyone in sight, nobody cares if we are there. Out of sight, out of mind. People cannot object to our presence if they do not notice that we are there.

 

[Jack]

Lenny, what you explained is probably the most important reason for staying stealthy.

 

[John61CT]

The concerns are valid, and if / when huge numbers of people doing it

**not by choice** but as a result of the economic system failing them, especially an under-regulated unaffordable housing market

escalates dramatically, then the enforcement issues could go either way.

Some communities will be compassionate and find ways to accommodate the needs.

Others will just use LEO to systematically move us on outside their jurisdiction.

Personally I think it will trend more toward the latter.

No stealth measures will help if they are actually seeking us out, automated heat-detecting video gear coupled with some AI, license plate readers, facial recognition, all that tech is already here and well within their budgets.

The relatively wealthy people doing it it for fun in big expensive "land yachts", those who still own comfortable homes to return to, they will not suffer much if at all, the law disproportionally targets the poors.

So yes, IMO staying under the radar is better than forming a visible "movement".

But advocating to help the more-truly homeless, fighting for dignified housing, just as with food & education,

as a fundamental right of citizenship,

will help address the underlying causes of the problem and prevent it escalating.

 

[AMGS3]

I think that perhaps the biggest thing nomads have going for them to protect them from any future local laws banning vehicle dwelling is our mobility. Are they going to ban people from going on vacations? Ban road trips? I suppose that urban/stealth dwelling in place in the same neighborhood for months at a time wouldn't really fit with a claim of "I'll be moving on in the morning, officer."

Also, what is the alternative? Do they force us out of our vehicles or trailers and into tents or onto the sidewalks? Do they force us into rentals or mortgages? Do they physically make us live in s&b? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just truly not understanding how any such outlawing of this way of life would be enforced. How can they MAKE us purchase s&b housing?

I don't think that outlawing this on any sort of large scale would be enforceable.

~angie

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[_KJ_]

I’ve been at this for a very long time and there is no way it’s going to stop. Ever, in fact I see it getting bigger and ‘society’ will be forced to accept us nomads from all walks of life and just deal with it. I feel it’s just going to get better!!

I’m 52 and I was stealth camping in a van in sanfran when I was 19yo. Did it all the way down to Cali and back to Vancouver Canada.

 

[lenny flank]

But advocating to help the more-truly homeless, fighting for dignified housing, just as with food & education,

as a fundamental right of citizenship,

will help address the underlying causes of the problem and prevent it escalating.

Yes indeed. Sadly, though, as a society, we have already decided that we don't give a shit about homeless people or what happens to them, as long as they are not bothering us personally--then we want them arrested or moved.

 

[Jack]

I have to say, I'm with John on this. Yes, I think folks will continue to live in vehicles but I can absolutely see it being legislated. Technology (one of the reasons I hate it) is not on our side if this becomes the case and is part of the reason why I asked in another thread about de-computerizing a vehicle. To my understanding, all they have to do is flip a switch (or something to that effect) and it can shut down your vehicle.

It's also why I wonder if I'm considering all I could be when it comes to choosing a place of permanent residence. Out of state plates are basically a dead giveaway. It could come to the point (again, at some time in the future) when vandwellers might have to keep to their "home state" to go undetected for longer. If that could be the case, then I would choose my state of residence more carefully than just considering whether they have an income tax.

Again, I'm just trying to think ahead given the current trend and attention vandwelling is receiving. I'm not nervous or scared.

 

[travelaround]

Great discussion . . . thanks for starting it, Jack!

There are fifty states and they all have different laws, for the most part. It would be a miracle if they all made laws to outlaw nomadery.

The only way that might happen is by a Supreme Court decision. The US federal government (congress) has no jurisdiction over nomad life. That's a state-by-state issue, according to the US Constitution.

If it ever got to the point where nomadic living was being outlawed in many states, I think the RV industry would get involved as it would affect their sales.

Basically, it seems we only have to be concerned about cities or counties where there are ordinances against sleeping in vehicles. It would be great to have a list here on the forum somewhere, of which places have these types of ordinances, so we can avoid them.

There will always be other places that roll out the welcome mat for van dwellers because they want their business - like Walmart, Home Depot, Cabelas, and Cracker Barrel - they want us... entire communities could decide they want nomads stopping there to drop off some money and then leave. What a great opportunity for them. I know from living in a small mountain town, visitors from outside the area are very much desired.

South Dakota wants us... other states too... they will go out of their way to make nomads welcome because when we spend our money in their stores we boost their economy.

Who wants to hang out in downtown Los Angeles anyway? I certainly don't.

 

[Blanch]

I read the stories, but meh. I am full time and I don’t see dwellers everywhere. I saw a few in the Sierras. A few. There is a lot of public land and not that many dwellers.

My stealth isn’t to hide I am camping, my stealth is to look middle class. I put out several chairs and a bicycle and I make a very nice looking camp. I always make it look like I am a middle class family on vacation. I never get bothered.

It is the homeless camps with garbage piles that upset the non dwellers. This group doesn’t usually have gas money and little respect for public lands. If you move as required, keep a clean camp, leave no trace, I don’t think anyone is concerned about that behavior.


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[John61CT]

I'm just truly not understanding how any such outlawing of this way of life would be enforced. How can they MAKE us purchase s&b housing?

I don't think that outlawing this on any sort of large scale would be enforceable.

It varies from one jurisdiction to the next.

Those motivated to, just need to harass you enough so you move on and don't try to sleep there again.

Just as is done with the millions of homeless in many (most?) communities.

When NGOs take up the cause and fight legal battles, can help a bit, but realistically, it is the more compassionate communities that actual try to help poors keep a roof over their head.

 

[travelaround]

all they have to do is flip a switch (or something to that effect) and it can shut down your vehicle.

If that's a feature on new vehicles, it is to prevent the extreme dangers of high speed chases (after criminals) and not to interfere with law abiding citizens.
 

vandwellers might have to keep to their "home state" to go undetected for longer

It is virtually impossible to distinguish a van dweller from a person on vacation. Vacations will still be legal . . . and if asked you don't have to tell the officer, "Yes sir, I'm a vagrant, homeless van dweller." Might be better to say, "Yes sir, I'm enjoying my vacation in your state."

 

[John61CT]

I think folks will continue to live in vehicles but I can absolutely see it being legislated.

No need, local ordinances and land use regs already in place almost everywhere.

It is just a question as to how strictly they get enforced, and that changes with the zeitgeist, sometimes just temporarily.

> I'm not nervous or scared.

Yes most gloom & doom is unwarranted, things may go the other way too and America becomes more community minded again, where we work together to find constructive solutions to our crises, rather than just letting all go to hell in a handbasket.

But one thing's for sure, the economy getting better even if constantly "healthy" does little to nothing these days on its own, to improve the lives of the bottom majority of ordinary (poor) citizens.

 

[John61CT]

If that's a feature on new vehicles, it is to prevent the extreme dangers of high speed chases (after criminals) and not to interfere with law abiding citizens.

Actually it is an extra feature put in place by finance companies to enforce paying the note on time.

They are supposed to wait and only disable the vehicle when it is stationary in a safe location, but of course sh1t happens.

Those sort of loans usually also forbid leaving the state.

 

[John61CT]

It is virtually impossible to distinguish a van dweller from a person on vacation. Vacations will still be legal . . . and if asked you don't have to tell the officer, "Yes sir, I'm a vagrant, homeless van dweller." Might be better to say, "Yes sir, I'm enjoying my vacation in your state."

It is simply made illegal to sleep in a vehicle on public property, other than for short times at rest stops.

Many places already do this routinely, but most currently rely on coming across us, not actively seeking us out.

The distinction is that "respectable citizens" on vacation pay for a place to sleep.

But you're right, most places, these days, being respectable-looking, which includes presenting as CIS and white and not too poor, no accent and not radical looking, you're unlikely to get hassled too egregiously.

 

[John61CT]

And even owning your own property, land use restrictions almost everywhere regulate what you can do to live there, short of building an approved home.

 

[lenny flank]

And even owning your own property, land use restrictions almost everywhere regulate what you can do to live there, short of building an approved home.

Meh, I think building codes, fire codes, and zoning regulations, are good things.

 

[Jack]

Some of the posts I'm reading are how about things are right now.   Right now, we have the freedom to roam and be undisturbed as long as we're being respectful and lawful about parking, picking up after ourselves, etc.,

What I'm talking about is the possible future.  There are more stories being done about vandwelling, especially given the tiny house trend.  There is more exposure, especially on social media.  There's even a new TV show about RVers living full time in their RVs.  I know this and I haven't owned a TV since the 90's.  (And I don't watch any streaming services like Roku or NetFlix.)

So, when I consider the future of van life, it's not so much from a public, or community, standpoint, but from a governmental one.  The federal government may not officially have the power to legislate it, but an overreaching government beyond its constitutional powers is hardly unheard of.  Local governments are "pressured" by federal and state governments.  Non-elected judges, after all, create/veto laws all the time, based on their own whims, even defying presidential orders.  Legislation against vandwelling isn't so far-fetched.  

The fact that living off-grid is under the radar, as well as other things that were once thought "normal," such as organic gardening at home, rainwater catching, homeschooling, etc., should cause us to at least consider the very real possibility of it.