Every Road Leads Home
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Great article that ties into exactly why vehicle living is becoming so attractive to so many.
https://markmanson.net/american-dream?spfb?spfb_42670
https://markmanson.net/american-dream?spfb?spfb_42670
The American Dream is Killing us (Great Article)
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ArtW
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That was a good read
TrainChaser
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"This thread will turn political really fast."
It was political to start with!
In reality, if your kid has a lemonade stand, the second customer is the tax man.
From the article: “Oh, and there was this whole thing called “slavery” you might of heard of. It ended.”
No, it didn’t; American companies just moved it overseas.
The American middle class (what's left of it) pays 50-60% in taxes (all-inclusive).
It isn't all atitude.
It was political to start with!
In reality, if your kid has a lemonade stand, the second customer is the tax man.
From the article: “Oh, and there was this whole thing called “slavery” you might of heard of. It ended.”
No, it didn’t; American companies just moved it overseas.
The American middle class (what's left of it) pays 50-60% in taxes (all-inclusive).
It isn't all atitude.
Oswegatchie
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TrainChaser said:
Actually, much of the Prison Industrial complex is basically slave labor too. Many of the biggest corporations take full advantage of it.
Mobilesport
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It looks like slavery is coming to the United States.
Here's what it looks like where I work.
Unionized Mfg plant.
2007 250 Mfg workers
2008 nov 250 Mg workers laid off
2009 feb 30 people called back
2009 may 30 more called back
2010 march me and 5 others called back and no more after that.
There was no more to call back because they had to go get new jobs because unemployment benefits weren't paying them enough to keep up with there bills.
2010 october - Unions contract was up so we vote on a new contract proposal.
Note: I was making good money.
Proposal went something like this.
" Everybody pay would stay the same except with a slight cost of living raise and a bonus check of a $1000 will be issued to all theUnion members that vote this in .
Part 2 of the proposal
Any new hires hired after 2010 will make 35% less wages then the current wages and also will earn less vacation time.
So in the future you could only imagine that the wages will continue to drop and a new slave class is brought in.
2012 hiring like crazy
2016 the place is flooded with immigrants from all around the world , there also hiring ex convicts ( mostly Caucasian and blacks ), and then alot of people from drug treatment centers too ( meth addicts.
So in the future there going to keep dropping the wages and create a new slave class.
The whole system is to create slaves , even in the media example Smokie and the bandit the smokies a bumbling idiot but the bandit out law is a slick and cool.
Brainwashing at its finest and then if you end up with a single felony on your record they take your right to bear arms , no more right to vote and its hard to get a job.
And how about how they flooded the neighborhoods with meth
They want to take your power away anyway they can
Here's what it looks like where I work.
Unionized Mfg plant.
2007 250 Mfg workers
2008 nov 250 Mg workers laid off
2009 feb 30 people called back
2009 may 30 more called back
2010 march me and 5 others called back and no more after that.
There was no more to call back because they had to go get new jobs because unemployment benefits weren't paying them enough to keep up with there bills.
2010 october - Unions contract was up so we vote on a new contract proposal.
Note: I was making good money.
Proposal went something like this.
" Everybody pay would stay the same except with a slight cost of living raise and a bonus check of a $1000 will be issued to all theUnion members that vote this in .
Part 2 of the proposal
Any new hires hired after 2010 will make 35% less wages then the current wages and also will earn less vacation time.
So in the future you could only imagine that the wages will continue to drop and a new slave class is brought in.
2012 hiring like crazy
2016 the place is flooded with immigrants from all around the world , there also hiring ex convicts ( mostly Caucasian and blacks ), and then alot of people from drug treatment centers too ( meth addicts.
So in the future there going to keep dropping the wages and create a new slave class.
The whole system is to create slaves , even in the media example Smokie and the bandit the smokies a bumbling idiot but the bandit out law is a slick and cool.
Brainwashing at its finest and then if you end up with a single felony on your record they take your right to bear arms , no more right to vote and its hard to get a job.
And how about how they flooded the neighborhoods with meth
They want to take your power away anyway they can
just because someone tells you the american dream is a house in the burbs with 3 kids and 2 cars doesn't make it true
for some it was not being slaughtered by the khmer rouge or isis
for some its not being slaughtered because their god has a different name then the others
for some its not being slaughtered because of their sexuality
for some it not being ruled by a king
we live in a country where the poorest of the poor are fat,there hasn't been a major plague in about 100 years and no nut jobs are trying to take over the world
enjoy these times,when the thinning of the herd comes back around you will speak of these times fondly
for some it was not being slaughtered by the khmer rouge or isis
for some its not being slaughtered because their god has a different name then the others
for some its not being slaughtered because of their sexuality
for some it not being ruled by a king
we live in a country where the poorest of the poor are fat,there hasn't been a major plague in about 100 years and no nut jobs are trying to take over the world
enjoy these times,when the thinning of the herd comes back around you will speak of these times fondly
poncho62
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Gary68 said:
I know of 2 nutjobs that are trying to take over the White House..........lol
Anyways, good points Gary, we do have it good over here in the west compared to some countries. Things used to be better though......Maybe we have had it too good for too long and now things are evening out. Maybe thats why so many of us on here dream of a simpler existence, rather that the 9-5 hustle, home ownership and all that crappola... I dont know
jonney38
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poncho62 said:
I'm a retired professor of economics. I have my own idea as to why van living is becoming popular. Over the past 20 years or so, the economics of living in a house or apartment have gotten worse and the economics of a van better:
1.) Building codes have increased the quality of housing but raised its price.
2.) So much private and tax payer money has been spent on roads and parking lots there is excess space available.
3.) Cell phones, wifi and solar equipment has made living in a car/van better than is once was.
That is not to say living in vans is an improvement in our lives. It's just a way to adapt to what has happened in our economy. My hat is off to those of you who are making it work.
Part 2 of the proposal
Any new hires hired after 2010 will make 35% less wages then the current wages and also will earn less vacation time.
So in the future you could only imagine that the wages will continue to drop and a new slave class is brought in
××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××
They did that 15 years ago at my workplace too , except it was introducing a graduated pay scale instead of starting at a full wage after training. It might sound reasonable on the surface, but we're all doing the same job once qualified. We spent five months on strike to kill that clause in the contract, but we failed. The "new underclass" are the young people of today.
I told that story to a 20 something employee who started recently and was complaining about Baby Boomers being entitled and selfish. He was shocked to know that many of the older employees lost five months of pay and endured a lot of hate to try and protect the next generation. Then I asked if he would do the same. Wow, talk about an uncomfortable silence. He is all for social justice, as long as it only involves Facebook posts and someone else doing the dirty work.
Any new hires hired after 2010 will make 35% less wages then the current wages and also will earn less vacation time.
So in the future you could only imagine that the wages will continue to drop and a new slave class is brought in
××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××
They did that 15 years ago at my workplace too , except it was introducing a graduated pay scale instead of starting at a full wage after training. It might sound reasonable on the surface, but we're all doing the same job once qualified. We spent five months on strike to kill that clause in the contract, but we failed. The "new underclass" are the young people of today.
I told that story to a 20 something employee who started recently and was complaining about Baby Boomers being entitled and selfish. He was shocked to know that many of the older employees lost five months of pay and endured a lot of hate to try and protect the next generation. Then I asked if he would do the same. Wow, talk about an uncomfortable silence. He is all for social justice, as long as it only involves Facebook posts and someone else doing the dirty work.
jonney38
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The Free Rider effect is when there is something available other paid for but can be used by someone else. It often results in overuse, like we see in neighborhoods with many young people in older apartment buildings without much parking. Many have to use the streets to park and the circle finding available spots.
I really do not see a problem with overuse of free rider van living in cities or smaller towns. Small towns are emptying out. In cities, about three parking spots are required for each vehicle. One each for home, work and shopping. The ones for work and shopping are usually available to van dwellers at night. There are maybe millions of square miles of asphalt there for the taking.
Hopefully, there are not too many cities banning van living. In any event, it requires a lot of man power to enforce these bans and there is a shortage of police hours usually.
What cities should do is accommodate van dwellers sort of like Wall Mart does--maybe provide cheap rest rooms, showers and trash pick with the requirement vehicles be gone in the morning.
I might mention I was a Mayor of a medium sized city several years ago.
I really do not see a problem with overuse of free rider van living in cities or smaller towns. Small towns are emptying out. In cities, about three parking spots are required for each vehicle. One each for home, work and shopping. The ones for work and shopping are usually available to van dwellers at night. There are maybe millions of square miles of asphalt there for the taking.
Hopefully, there are not too many cities banning van living. In any event, it requires a lot of man power to enforce these bans and there is a shortage of police hours usually.
What cities should do is accommodate van dwellers sort of like Wall Mart does--maybe provide cheap rest rooms, showers and trash pick with the requirement vehicles be gone in the morning.
I might mention I was a Mayor of a medium sized city several years ago.
Wanderer
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Vanholio said:
I think he covered it here:
But not the United States. It was just too bloody far away. I mean, if you’re Napoleon, why load up a bunch of expensive ships and sail for weeks, when you can just invade Italy, like, tomorrow?
As a result, the US developed a sense of being isolated from the world. With the exception of Pearl Harbor (which took a lot of fucking effort from Imperial Japan), we’ve just been impossible to get to.
Americans take this for granted. But its effect cannot be overstated. As recently as a couple decades ago, much of Europe feared an imminent invasion from the east. Hell, some European countries still fear that invasion.6
GotSmart
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The sad truth is that fewer people today are getting ahead than before. And they’re getting ahead not due to their hard work or their education as much as their connections, their family’s socioeconomic status, and of course, just the plain luck of not getting horribly sick or getting into a serious accident.
Add in the number of employers that will lie to you, use you, and the scumbag lawyers that will rape you...
I worked hard all my life, even when in great pain. I had to feed my children. I paid my taxes. Now I find that I get less than a $5 increase on my SS, but do not know how much my insurance will go up next year.
I dont need this dose of reality driving up my blood pressure and giving me another stroke.
Add in the number of employers that will lie to you, use you, and the scumbag lawyers that will rape you...
I worked hard all my life, even when in great pain. I had to feed my children. I paid my taxes. Now I find that I get less than a $5 increase on my SS, but do not know how much my insurance will go up next year.
I dont need this dose of reality driving up my blood pressure and giving me another stroke.
eDJ_
Well-known member
Got Smart wrote:
I just wanted to speak to the emboldened. I'd invite jonney38 to share his points of view on it too.
It seems that beyond the RV Living we are seeing a rise in today, there are a couple of other hitch hikers who are traveling along with it too.
The MGTOW (wouldn't call it a movement just yet) thing men are beginning to turn to as "wife and children" are also becoming economically burdening beyond economic practical feasibility. The virtues of staying "solitary" are driving some of the social relationship trends as well. It seems FWB is becoming the new "relationship" standard as the economy has bled so many away from their resources. (FWB = Friends With Benefits). The internet and the many Dating Sites has created a new standard where those who want to can
easily have an alternate social life while on the road.
The second, if one wants to drive their Van outside the USA, is the EXPATRIATE live style which is also growing. As I understand it, a person can become a resident of a more southern State that doesn't have a
personal Income Tax. Then they file to become an EXPAT (once they have found a job offshore) They will only be permitted to re-enter the USA up to 1 month of the year for whatever their needs or reasons. Thier
Federal income tax will start at $91, 500 from what I read in a Forbes Magazine addressing this topic. (No State Income Tax). Then they will have to pay into Social Security until they have earned $108,000 and then
they won't have to pay into it again until the next fiscal year. So if one were to travel to another country
where the dollar is stronger and they lived in their Van, RV, or Trailer as an EXPAT, they may prosper even more.
I've considered rolling all three of these into one.
I just wanted to speak to the emboldened. I'd invite jonney38 to share his points of view on it too.
It seems that beyond the RV Living we are seeing a rise in today, there are a couple of other hitch hikers who are traveling along with it too.
The MGTOW (wouldn't call it a movement just yet) thing men are beginning to turn to as "wife and children" are also becoming economically burdening beyond economic practical feasibility. The virtues of staying "solitary" are driving some of the social relationship trends as well. It seems FWB is becoming the new "relationship" standard as the economy has bled so many away from their resources. (FWB = Friends With Benefits). The internet and the many Dating Sites has created a new standard where those who want to can
easily have an alternate social life while on the road.
The second, if one wants to drive their Van outside the USA, is the EXPATRIATE live style which is also growing. As I understand it, a person can become a resident of a more southern State that doesn't have a
personal Income Tax. Then they file to become an EXPAT (once they have found a job offshore) They will only be permitted to re-enter the USA up to 1 month of the year for whatever their needs or reasons. Thier
Federal income tax will start at $91, 500 from what I read in a Forbes Magazine addressing this topic. (No State Income Tax). Then they will have to pay into Social Security until they have earned $108,000 and then
they won't have to pay into it again until the next fiscal year. So if one were to travel to another country
where the dollar is stronger and they lived in their Van, RV, or Trailer as an EXPAT, they may prosper even more.
I've considered rolling all three of these into one.
ArtW
Well-known member
The MGTOW thing has a lot less to do with the economy than it does with the way the family courts treat Primary Wage earners in a divorce compared to Primary Caregivers, the high divorce rate, and the way Primary earners lose their kids, as well as other legal issues regarding domestic abuse, rape laws, and harassment laws
Why attach yourself to someone so they can then strip you of your assets?
Why have children only to have them taken from you and used as a lever to extract what resources you have left?
Why live with someone who can assault you, then, if they break a nail hitting you, have you arrested?
Why even approach someone when you can be prosecuted for harassment if they think you're 'creepy' (low value)?
It;s a simple cost / benefit analysis
Why attach yourself to someone so they can then strip you of your assets?
Why have children only to have them taken from you and used as a lever to extract what resources you have left?
Why live with someone who can assault you, then, if they break a nail hitting you, have you arrested?
Why even approach someone when you can be prosecuted for harassment if they think you're 'creepy' (low value)?
It;s a simple cost / benefit analysis
Personally I think that a lot of people have turned to Van dwelling because it is a Innovative, and affordable way to travel and enjoy nature. I think a person has to travel outside the country, to appreciate what we have here. I turn to Van dwelling for no other reason then it was an affordable way to travel and enjoy life.
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