Terrorism in Oregon

[Canine]

I believe the Bundys see it as a State issue. They want the land to be run by the State. Or they would rather private land owners take ownership and let them manage it, which would be a giant cluster. If the land went to private ownership, too many of those owners would exploit as fast as possible for as much money as possible. Then no one would want the land because it would then have no value. The land would go up for sale, but because no one would want it or could afford it, guess who would pick up the land? The Federal government. That is how some of the Federal land that is in place now has been acquired. For one reason or another, no one took ownership of the land, so the Feds got it.

Montana is discussing purchasing federally owned land, but I don't see how that is financially possible. I would like to see better use of some of the federally owned land, but really don't have a good answer for that. If Oregon owned the land, despite the Bundys supposed support of State's rights, they would have done the same thing they are doing now. They say they don't recognize Federal law, but what they are really saying is they don't recognize anything that doesn't allow them unfettered access to bring in as much profit as possible no matter who else is hurt by it.

I'm still strongly against Federal overreach, but I'm not in favor of the mess in Oregon.

 

[gcal]

gcal, I know this is not a state issue.  We got a little off-track.  Mea culpa.  

No problem for me. Oregon is one area we have relatives and have thought of eventually settling. How the state functions is interesting to me.

 

[SaltySeaWitch]

The United States is not a Democracy, it's a Republic.

 

[gcal]

Bundy and Fiore want to go Burns, because things need to be crazier, there then they already are. BIL and SIL, who actually live in Oregon, are already ticked off about what this - whatever it is - will be costing Oregon taxpayers. They would like these people to go stir up trouble in their own states.

 

[LeeRevell]

So much for a citizen's right to free travel between states.  :-/

 

[Konaexpress]

Kinda makes me wonder what's on that BLM land that someone wants so bad......

John

 

[gcal]

So much for a citizen's right to free travel between states.  :-/

Always a problem if you have warrants out against you.

 

[LeeRevell]

Kinda makes me wonder what's on that BLM land that someone wants so bad......

John

Current story points to uranium ore.  Big money involved.

 

[gcal]

Current story points to uranium ore.  Big money involved.

At the bird sanctuary?

 

[gcal]

Looks like it is over, except for the court trials. From what I saw in some videos and articles the other three might have surrendered to get away from the increasingly unhinged Fry. That boy needs helps.

 

[Konaexpress]

Yikes! If the government or big business wants that land for that, those poor people are s****!

Which politician is behind this one? I don't know the politics of Oregon to give an opinion about what's what. I just hope this is all wrong for the people's sake.

John

 

[Konaexpress]

Looks like it is over, except for the court trials. From what I saw in some videos and articles the other three might have surrendered to get away from the increasingly unhinged Fry. That boy needs helps.

Or they did not want to get shot like that other guy. I don't know anything about that guy but I did see the video. Could not tell exactly what happened as the vid was poor quality but I know one thing for sure. That was a kill box they drove into. Whoever was in charge knew exactly who, what and when. Those people must of really ticked someone off because none of them stood a chance.

John

 

[gcal]

Or they did not want to get shot like that other guy. I don't know anything about that guy but I did see the video. Could not tell exactly what happened as the vid was poor quality but I know one thing for sure. That was a kill box they drove into. Whoever was in charge knew exactly who, what and when. Those people must of really ticked someone off because none of them stood a chance.

John

 For a kill box, they did a pretty sloppy job. The only one that got killed ran the first road block, then tried to run on foot, then reached for his gun (twice) before they finally shot him. Pretty darned sloppy kill box if you ask me.

 

[JT646]

Let us hope that this Bundy bunch can now rest in peace....in a Federal Prison.

 

[WriterMs]

Kinda makes me wonder what's on that BLM land that someone wants so bad......

John

What? Huh? Have you followed the beginning of this with facts from a reputable source?

It is the Bundys and those "ranchers" who wanted the bird sanctuary land for their cattle and to continue poaching wildlife. The "artifacts" are a display in the wildlife refuge building that these criminals took over.

The second these men brought in guns and talked about shooting others, they became terrorists (pretty much the definition of terrorist). I just hope that "we the people" are able to recoup some of the money that had to be spent trying to bring these criminals to justice. Those were our tax dollars they caused to be spent just as if they were bank robbers holding hostages in a bank.

 

[gcal]

What? Huh?   Have you followed the beginning of this with facts from a reputable source?

It is the Bundys and those "ranchers" who wanted the bird sanctuary land for their cattle and to continue poaching wildlife. The "artifacts" are a display in the wildlife refuge building that these criminals took over.

The second these men brought in guns and talked about shooting others, they became terrorists (pretty much the definition of terrorist). I just hope that "we the people" are able to recoup some of the money that had to be spent trying to bring these criminals to justice. Those were our tax dollars they caused to be spent just as if they were bank robbers holding hostages in a bank.

My BIL and SIL live in Oregon. They and their neighbors get daily updates on the news about how much this is costing Oregon taxpayers. Sometimes, the amount is presented in terms of how many teachers could have been hired or miles of road and bridge repairs could have been done. They are not happy about it. They tell us that, regularly. The 4 holdouts were lucky a mob of angry taxpayers did not go in and drag them out by the neck.

 

[GotSmart]

Kinda makes me wonder what's on that BLM land that someone wants so bad......

John

They are looking for Bob's serenity.  But they went too far north!  :angel:

 

[Konaexpress]

 For a kill box, they did a pretty sloppy job. The only one that got killed ran the first road block, then tried to run on foot, then reached for his gun (twice) before they finally shot him. Pretty darned sloppy kill box if you ask me.

Ok, I don't know you so I'm going to step away from this conversation. I'm guessing that you have no combat skills and have no idea what you were looking at. This is okay, not everyone does. I assume with this lack of knowledge you are repeating something you read or heard.

A road block is a road block. A kill box is something else entirely. As far as that guy reaching for a gun? You have no idea nor do I in this case with no audio or a better picture. We don't know what commands he was given or followed by him. He could have been showing them he was unarmed. 

Have fun with this topic, I will leave it alone.

With all respect,
John

 

[AltTransBikes]

A little study might be in order since I have seen a lot of commentary in various places around the web with some, or much of it, leaning toward the suggestion that 'big gubmint is out to steal land from ranchers they have been on for generations'. Not exactly the case.

In 1929, republican President Herbert Hoover, long prompted by all parties involved, established a committee to make recommendations for dealing with overgrazing which had become a huge problem in the western states. The committee recommended that the remaining public domain should be given to the states. The federal government attempted to do then exactly what the Bundys and their compatriots ask — “return the land to the people.”

Had the Western states accepted the offer, we might have avoided a long train of controversies leading to the Oregon occupation. When each of the Western states declined, the second caveat in the Hoover committee recommendations was put into play, and Congress passed the Taylor Grazing Act in 1934, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Grazing_Act_of_1934 establishing a permit-and-fee system for regulating grazing on the public lands.

All of that was to be administered by the then named Department of Interior’s federal Grazing Service — an entity that would eventually become part of the Bureau of Land Management.

 

[Dust-In-the-Wind]

The United States is not a Democracy, it's a Republic.

Right.  Specifically, a constitutionally limited Republic.  And the original intent, before the constitution became a 2,000 page bloated document, was simple.  The two roles the Federal government was to play was 1) "...to provide for the common defense", and 2) "...the regulation of interstate commerce.  That's it.  Everything else was for the states to decide.