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rtb111

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Hello All,

Finally getting around to putting some electrical in the van.  Been doing the research and think I have a game plan.  One question is, other than Amazon, where do you recommend I get my battery(s)? I'd like to walk into a place and walk out with the batteries...

I'm planning on installing an ~125 ah AGM to start.  I will wire this with a solenoid to charge from the alternator, and also put in a charger to run from shore power when available. I figure I'll wire an external plug and then split into a circuit for outlets and a circuit for the charger.  Eventually I'll install at least 200 watts of solar with an mppt controller.

Off the battery I will have a 1200 watt or so pure sine inverter, a dometic fridge (either the cf-018 or 025), a maxx air fan (already installed and I've been running off the the starter battery),some led lights, Apple laptop, and battery chargers...

What am I missing?

Thanks in Advance!

Todd.
 
For batteries, I also want to walk in and out.

I have Batteries + Bulbs near by. I see they also carry 12V AGMs.

I will most likely get 6V golf cart batteries for starters. Better learn about batteries by "murdering" cheap ones than expensive ones.
 
Interstate is not a battery manufacturer, they are a battery marketer.

Who currently makes thge, if any ~125 AH AGM battery in their inventory, is anybody's guess and it will be whomever offered them the most profit margin( lowest bidder).

Batteries + sells X2 power batteries which are relabelled Northstar AGM, which are top quality in my opinion and experience. They are not an economical AGM. Northstar offers a 4 year free replacement warranty, batteries plus tacks on another year for 5.

But like All AGMS, they have some foibles. The Northstars really like high amp recharging, at least every so many deep cycles.

If you are not going to install solar right off the bat, this basically means that unless you plug into the grid, you will never fully recharge the battery, as the alternator, controlled by the vehicles voltage regulator, never allows high enough voltage for long enough, and even if it did get to 14.5 volts, and stayed there for a 5 hour drive, a battery at 50% charged when the engine was started, would still need another 1.5 hours of driving, minimum.

The alternator is not an instant magical battery charger as so many people the world over seem to think. It is capable of high amperage only when cold, with its voltage regulator seeking voltages in the mid to high 14's over thick copper circuit and with a depleted battery which can accept high amperage. a battery at ~80% charged starts limiting how much it can accept and by 95% charged can only accept an amp or 3 at most. As the battery ages it can accept less and less, even at higher voltages, which are rarely allowed by the voltage regulator anyway. So defniitely take advantage of this very capacble charging source, just know it is not all powerful and will rarely if ever actually full charge a deeply cycled battery, no matter how long the vehicle is driven. It sucks I know, but it is a fact and best to learn it before destroying a battery through ignorance, as so many people do, and then blame the battery for not being magical granter of wishes.

So without the solar, and without being to occassionally fully charge it by another method, like plugging into the grid overnight and letting a 12+ amp charger go until it drops to float voltage, then hold it there for many more hours...........

Then what quality battery you get is not much going to matter. The best AGM is not immune to chronic undercharging, so get a cheap one. Batteries plus has motre budget friendly AGMS, which are likely the same as this:

https://www.amazon.com/Universal-UB121000-45978-100AH-Cycle-Battery/dp/B00S1RT58C

Just with different labelling.

Also one shoud not really mix newer and older batteries together. The newer usually battery quickly degrades to the level of the older battery. Not saying it does not work, just that it is far from ideal to mix old and new, an the new will be short lived, no longer than the older.

125Ah in a AGM battery is kind of a rare beast, the Vmax tanks is one, the Lifeline GPL-31XT at a significantly higher pricepoint and quality level is another.
The group 31 Northstar/X2 power is only rated at 102AH, but would be able to power a 1200 watt inverter for significantly longer before the low voltage alarm starts crying. Even drawn down the same Amp hours from full as the higher capacity lifeline or Vmax tanks, would hold a higher voltage under a big load such as an inverter can present. Especially 1200 watts which is ~ 100 amps at 12vDC

Lifeline and Northstar can accept HUGE charging amperages when well depleted, the Vmaxtanks says to limit it to 30% of the 125Ah rating whic is 37.5 amps. Which a well wired alternator will be able to exceed on a depleted battery, for as long as the vehicles voltage regulator seeks 14.5ish volts and up to about 70% state of charge.

I don't really think exceeding that amperage is a problem, except if the battery is starting out at 100F or in that range. I am not recommending people dismiss the max amperage limits listed by manufacturers, but beware that the danger lies in excessive battery temperature. Do not dismiss the voltage limits however, especially in hot ambient temps.

I'd not expend big bucks on a top quality AGM until you can at least approach the 30% recharge rate and also be able to fully charge it regularly. Odyssey AGM says no less than 40% charge rate when depleted to 50% state of charge or less. They are similar construction to Northstar AGM

Full charge on an AGM is determined by amperage at absorption voltage. When holding the voltage at 14.4 to 14.7v, when the 100AH battery tapers to 0.5 amps of acceptance or less, it can be considered fully charged.

When most depleted, AGMS really like the higher amp charge rates, Fill this requirement and recharge to full regularly, and they will serve you well. Inability to meet these requirements and a flooded marine battery will likely outlastan AGM in the same usage for half the price.

Some peole assign super battery status to AGMS because of their price, but they often fail to live up to expectations unless treated very well, and this means a 20% charge rate minimum when depleted to the 50% range, and complete recharges no less frequent that 5 to 10 deep cycles( 50% range)

The less deep the cycle, the less important the high amperage recharge becomes. On my Northstar when I notice some performance loss, Lower voltages for same AH removed from it, I intentioally dain it to 50% or below and then feed it 40+ amps until it hits 14.7, then hold 14.7 until amps taper to 0.45amps or less(90Ah capacity). This is pretty much the capacity and performance reset procedure on this battery, and i am getting by far the best service I;ve ever gotten from any battery, from this Northstar AGM. It turns 4 years old in November, will likley have well over 700 deep cycles on it by then, many dozen to well below 50% state of charge.
For over two years now it has been my only battery, for both engine starting and house loads, and still easily starts my engine depleted 65 of its total 90AH capacity.

My house loads are a 1.8 cubic foot frodge, 90 watt (max, average is 32 to 35watts) laptop several hours each night, lights, fans, stereo, tv, and various other things. 200 watts of solar, wish I had 300, especially in winter when I need to plug in to achieve that high amp charge rate and the 100% state of charge.
 
Thank you very much for such an in depth reply... 
So as I understand... IF I understand...
For the time being I shouldn't be too worried on the battery I get... as long as it is AGM and around 100 ah size... since I'm not installing the solar for a bit.  At least not until I can get the high top installed...
And I should get a high amp charger to use for shore power, and I'll connect to the alternator using a isolator, even though that will only help when I'm driving long distances.
Here is an additional question...
I'm thinking of installing this:AC Port Plug for ease of connecting to shore power.  Can I split that inside, plug in the battery charger, and have a cpl of 110V outlets inside for when I'm on shore power charging the batteries, thus not using the inverter during this time....
If any of that makes sense...
Anyone???
Thanks Much!


Todd.
 
What about this battery:

Interstate SRM29

It doesn't show ah, but the RC is 210, meaning the the ah should be approximately 100?  kinda?
 
That group 29 interstate is NOT an AGM.  It is likely  made by johnson controls, but hard to really say


A near 60 pound weight group 29/31 is pretty good, I believe the group 29s wal mart sells are also johnson controls but lighter weight, but not 100% sure by any means.

I have a group 31 USbattery that is worn out, and weighs 64 LBs.  Likely the  only flooded/wet  group 31 battery which is better is made by Trojan.  Heavier is better with lead acid batteries.  Lighterweight means thinner more porous more fragile plates.  Lower CCA numbers are also desirable in a  flooded/wet battery that is designed to be cycled as lower CCA indicates thicker denser less porous more durable plates.

AGMs generally have higher CCA numbers but lifelines group 31 has 750 or so and a Northstar or Odyssey has 1150CCA.  The Lifeline is a dedicated deep cycle AGM whereas the northstar/odyssey are dual purpose

Who makes what for whom can vary in different parts of the country.

Group 29 and group 31 are essentially the same size.

An 'isolator' can refer to a diode based unit, and the diode can drop 0.4 to 0.7 volts across it, making it even slower and harder to fully recharge.  if it has a large finned heatsink, avoid it.

The simple continuous duty solenoid is a better bet.  Cole hersee makes one rated for 200 amps.  Solenoiids do wear out but the higher the rating the longer it should last.  Isolation products, well there are hundreds out there, the simple continuous duty solenoid is often called an isolator, but the products in this arena can convolute the meaning with their nitwit marketers who do not understand the product, only the bottom line.

That Noco AC plug is good.  I have used one, but most plugs are rated at 15 amps, that one is only 13.  Might be pushed to the brink if you are powering a bigger heater or multiple things at once.  Might be a non issue.

Batteries plus sells a group 31 AGM.  it is labelled as duracell but it is a East Penn/ Deka intimidator.  These are not the greatest of AGMs in deep cycle service.

copy and paste this into your browser:

Duracell Ultra Dual Terminal AGM Battery Deep Cycle BCI Group 31M Marine and Boat.

One respected marine technician says these are not rated for many deep cycles, but I've never found supporting documentation for that claim. Perhaps johnct51 has.
  These are also sold in Sams club and costco, but might have an energizer label on them.

The Deka intimidator AGM is likely the most rebranded AGM sold in north America.  I would say it is a good to great starting battery that can handle very occassional deep cycling, but is a marginal deep cycle battery in terms of total cycles before capacity loss is very apparent.

Is it better than the UPG  AGM battery that is much cheaper on amazon? well it is made in the USA, rather than China.

And the alternator, controlled by the vehicles voltage regulator, well depending on the vehicle, usually for the first 10 to perhaps 15 minutes of driving, might seek and hold those 14.5volts, and at that desired pressure many amps can flow.  So while a long drive will likely not be able to top off a battery due to the lower incurred voltage allowed by the VR, those first few minutes  of driving might really be able to stuff 60+ amps back into the battery for however long that 14.5 electrical pressure is sought.

So thick wiring/ cabling drom alternator (+) stud to isolation decvice to house battery, and a big fat ground path  from house battery back to alternator mounting bolt, might be able to accomplish a good amount.

Also idling to recharge can be very hard on an alternator, and might cause its voltage regulator to prematurely cut back on the voltage sought to reduce load and heat on alternator. Driving at 45mph to recharge is much bettter for the alternator and likely will allow it to send higher amps for longer to a well depleted battery.

it is just the full charge at lesser voltages takes forever.

How long your particular vehicle will seek and hold 14.5ish volts, is unknown, but a digital voltmeter is very enlightening, especially one whose voltage sense leads are right on the battery itself. 

If you can and do use the plug in charger and are willing to top off the battery with an initial 25 amp or higher rate, then you might want to consider spending more on the X2 power/Northstar battery, or the lifeline GPL-31xt or the Odyssey PC2150.  While 25 amps is still a bit too little for a well depleted 100Ah AGM of this caliber,  your alternator should be able to make that for 15 minutes or so and then plugging in could keep the battery happy, and then when you get the high top and solar, all three charging sources should allow the battery to live a respectable lifespan.
 
rtb111 said:
Here is an additional question...
I'm thinking of installing this:AC Port Plug for ease of connecting to shore power.  Can I split that inside, plug in the battery charger, and have a cpl of 110V outlets inside for when I'm on shore power charging the batteries, thus not using the inverter during this time....



Todd.

Todd, what I used was a Marinco Charger Inlet - https://www.amazon.com/ParkPower-Marinco-150BBI-RV-Charger-125-Volt/dp/B000NV0V8C

It allows me to simply plug in an outdoor extension cord outside the van and hook up to either shore power or the generator without having a door open.

I mounted mine in the indent in the bumper, ran heavy duty outdoor extension cord from there to inside the van. It's hooked up to a small (2 - 4) circuit breaker box. Then wired to 2 outlets inside the living area of the van and one in my 'electrical room'. The battery charger is plugged in to the one in the electrical room, the other two are available for 120v use anytime I'm either hooked up to shore power or the gennie is running.

BTW, I also wired 2 regular outlets in the living area to the 400W inverter plug ins and put a lighted switch in the ilving area so I can turn power on and off to the inverter without having to open the electrical cabinet door which is usually blocked by storage in the rear of the van.
 
None of the G24/27/32 12V sold in consumer retail come close to the 6V GCs in deep cycling capacity.

If you can't get the cycles vs DoD specs from the mfg, avoid like the plague.
 
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