Stealth: What is the quietest gas heater (Espar, Webasto, Wallas, etc.)?

[kllcbosmetris]

Propex HS2211 (also propane) similar, all more quiet for the owner, since they run outside the living space. But not stealthy.

- So ... out of Webasto/Espar/Propex, Propex is the quietest? I can't find videos of these units running at night - to figure out how much. From the reaction I am getting, I guess I might have to consider HS2211 (which apparently is even quieter than HS2000). 

wrt value, I think well worth it if you're a fulltimer, or do a lot of skiing each season and will get good use over the years.

I really like the idea of the water-based ones, some heat the engine block, and heat exchange can give you HWS and radiators in the living space as well. Now that I think about it, there's your stealth! Heat up an insulated water tank while away from the sleep spot, while you're enjoying music, watching a movie making dinner etc. Then you can be silently cozy when you bed down, maybe with a hot water bottle if it's bitter, set it to go off again at 5am for when you get up an hour or two later.

- I hope to be a full-timer. Hence, the investment to have a decent set up.
- If I can figure it out, I do want to get a dual model so I can have hot water in the morning. I just don't know enough. Still learning.

Floor exhaust isn't isn't recommended for safety (CO infiltration).  The hot gasses will try to go up into the van through any cracks it can find.  If going that route I would have at least two very good CO detectors.  A hidden roof exhaust would be a better solution.

- I think if you direct/place the air-intake and exhaust pipes in completely opposite directions, it might work. With roof exhaust 1) have to run a pipe horizontally and lose some storage space 2) whatever is coming out of roof exhaust will be more visible or audible (and less stealth) as people are more used to seeing/hearing things if it is coming from underneath the car/van, so if I install the heater closer to the engine block and front of the van it might sound more natural I think?

You didn't mention the temperatures you plan on stealth camping in.  In below freezing temps, if the dew point is high enough, the exhaust will leave a vapor trail; easy to see something hot is exhausting from the van.  The vapor will also condense on any cold surface; another dead giveaway if exhaust is coming from under the van.

-  Don't plan on going to Alaska or Canada. Mostly northern U.S. states. Illinois or Massachusetts level, if you'd like to picture an imaginary line I won't cross or go north of.
-  Good point. I just thought whoever is seeing that may think I had just parked there and that is why snow has melted etc.?

The Airtronic is the one I am most familiar with

- Thank you. My understanding is Airtronic Espar heaters are all diesel (and won't suit me). Do they have a gas fuel unit?

 

[John61CT]

Yes all the main vendors have both fuel type units.

Yes specialist install / repair shops are thinner on the ground in the US than other northern countries.

The 12V usage is not high.

By the way, as long as the air is warm at the start and end of your sleep period, warm bedclothes and a hot water bottle are plenty, actively heating all night is really unnecessary even camping in ski area parking lots.

Carry a buddy and 1# can for a spare.

Key to their market growth is banning with real enforcement, truckers idling their engines when stationary, and of course the US lags behind on that sort of stuff.

Finally, stealth is all about outside appearances. Completely unrealistic thinking passengers won't be able to tell you're living in your van, unless you really give up on a livable setup, or just talking an occasional overnight.

 

[John61CT]

> flexible thin solar roof panels
more expensive and don't last long

> portable solar generator (where I can plug & charge it at work/hotel/library) 
I despise that usage of "generator", really a portable power pack

These are very overpriced and underpowered, can't trust the AH ratings. Make sure to get links for replacement batteries.

Basically anything that portable doesn't store enough power for even basic electrical needs

Overall, my advice is to make sure to do a lot more research on each of these areas before you start spending money, it is so easy to make up a list of "must haves" that paint you into a "can't be done" corner.

Living in a van requires flexibility and compromise.

 

[kllcbosmetris]

By the way, as long as the air is warm at the start and end of your sleep period, warm bedclothes and a hot water bottle are plenty, actively heating all night is really unnecessary even camping in ski area parking lots.

- True. Before I discovered this wonderfully knowledgeable community, I had a brief involuntary period where I experimented with SUV dwelling and I remember I had to get up and start the car a few times a night (despite having no cracked windows) which really interfered with my sleep/rest. It was obviously not stealth but I was in a protected/secluded semi-private area, so it was somewhat okay. But if I am going to go full-time, I'd like to have some comfort -- especially if the technology exists. And now that I know the importance of ventilation & air-flow, I am definitely going to need a heater as I'll have cold fresh air coming in. 

Finally, stealth is all about outside appearances. Completely unrealistic thinking passengers won't be able to tell you're living in your van, unless you really give up on a livable setup, or just talking an occasional overnight.

- The set up I'm thinking is like MB Marco Polo (which is available in Europe - and not US), without the roof pop-up. Tried to attach the pictures here. Looks professional when the seats are up (and fridge/cooking/faucet area is covered with crash resistant tinted glass), as if it is upfitted for executive commute. I'm not at retirement age and still have to work, so I'm trying to be as stealth as possible since I'll probably be in or around major cities. It's more about sleep and storage (i.e. clothes) for me than cooking + boondocking in rv camps and BLM areas (even though I'd love to do that on my long weekends and vacations).

 

[tx2sturgis]

What did the Mercedes Benz driver say to the BMW driver?

Hey, I live in a van down by the river!

(bandwidth intensive)


https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/me...o-polo-a-new-star-in-camper-van-heaven-video/

 

[John61CT]

Yes Europe offers a lot of high end gear, and less of the "nearly homeless" perception, likely due to not as many such problems in reality.

But we're talking big bucks, and self-building, even trying to find pros to deliver that sort of quality and finish in the US seems an uphill battle.

If you can afford it, just bring one over, probably cheaper.

 

[sephson]

- Agreed on expensive. But my biggest challenge (the time I briefly experimented) was to get a decent sleep and temperature regulation was the key (even more than the noise outside). Without decent sleep I am just an unfunctional zombie during the day. So this expense (along with ventilation) is a must unfortunately.

I'm also not a full timer, so for me the Little Buddy is an inconvenience for a few days or weeks a year. There is no way I could justify the expense with the amount of time I spend living out of my car. As you're looking to full time, the comfort and convenience added to a good night's sleep may well be worth the added expense.

 

[highdesertranger]

so are you wanting to be able to run the heater all night, while you sleep? yuk. I would just move to a warmer area or get a better sleeping bag. highdesertranger

 

[kllcbosmetris]

so are you wanting to be able to run the heater all night,  while you sleep?  yuk.  I would just move to a warmer area or get a better sleeping bag.  highdesertranger

Why not? Isn't that what the air heaters are designed for? If the temp goes below a certain comfortable F, the unit kicks in and if it is a brutally cold night, heater runs all night. I don't see what the yuck issue is here. Everyone has different needs and priorities in the dwelling lifestyle. I'm just trying to pick a heater that'd work for me in the long term; I am not trying to change my circumstances.

 

[highdesertranger]

I have never had a good nights sleep with a heater running. I don't know what it is but I can't sleep with a heater running no matter what type of heater or how cold it is. on the other hand I sleep fine in my winter sleeping bag in sub zero temps. if you like to use a heater, fine. I think it's a waste of energy but I think that about AC too. mind you I don't mind a heater before bed or when you wake up, but to stay warm at night while you sleep I say get a better bag. highdesertranger

 

[tx2sturgis]

"highdesertranger" in Alaskan Inuit language means 'hibernating polar bear'....so pay no attention to that guy...

 

[kllcbosmetris]

[If we assume I'm going with a petrol/gasoline model]

Fuel Tapping:

- Self installers: Have you had problems connecting the heater fuel line to your existing van gasoline/petrol tank? Via T or Y piece? I've been told that most modern/newer vans have pressurized fuel systems and tapping into the tank via T would be dangerous. Thoughts?  

- Does anyone know how do professional installers handle this issue?

 

[John61CT]

Tap into the tank, higher than for the engine, so you're never left stranded.

 

[highdesertranger]

with the fuel pump in tank models of most newer vehicles you must install a whole new fuel pick up. the heater manufacturer that you choose should have the info and parts. and yes don't install the new pick up all the to the bottom of the tank. leave between 1/2-1/4 of a tank of fuel. highdesertranger

 

[karl]

Installed an Espar D-4 Airtonic in a Sprinter (diesel)and was pleasantly surprised to find the tank already had a quick connect tap .
AFAIK, other brands will need a separate tap...or auxiliary tank. My unit came with a drop tube and tap for the tank.

Never been around the gas versions, but was a bit disappointed in the noise level and maintenance of the diesel. On the positive side- it appears to be more efficient than the propane camper heater in my personal van.

I went with propane since I carry an LP genset and cook with LP as well.

 

[John61CT]

Do you mean you stopped using the Espar and put in a propane heater like Propex?

 

[tx2sturgis]

I think what he is saying is that he has a diesel Sprinter and another 'personal' van with propane systems.

I'm almost 100% positive no one would install an Airtrtonic and then just quit using it....they cost so much to install and work so well.

 

[karl]

Do you mean you stopped using the Espar and put in a propane heater like Propex?

Talking about two vehicles- Significant Others's Sprinter  has the Espar diesel ,
my Step van has an Atwood RV furnace

Have no experience with the Propex- wasn't even aware of them when I built out my van. I'd definitely research them if I were to do it again.

 

[John61CT]

Yes the HS2211 is an awesome bit of kit, blows any RV style out of the water, very very efficient.