SPRAY FOAM INSULATION: Why I won't use it

[glworden]

I am coming to the conclusion that I will probably avoid spray foam. Reasons:
1. Spurious or not, health concerns are real and they never really stop off-gassing.
2. People use it to fill voids but according to some manufacturers it never cures under such conditions. 
3. Horror stories about uncontrolled expansion resulting in bulging body panels. Maybe that wouldn't happen to me, but maybe it would. 
4. That you have to wear a safety suit and masks to apply it.
5. It's really permanent. If you screw up, you are screwed.
6. Sounds messy.
7. My wife has had cancer twice and is very cautious about environmental exposure to chemicals. 
8. If carbon footprint and environmentalism is an issue, it seems odd to use a petroleum-based product to cut down on petroleum i.e. energy useage. 
9. Reports of rust and metal degradation. Illustrations of this in THIS forum.

Given the above-stated concerns about foam insulation, especially spray foam, I am wondering whether there is a cellulose-based automotive insulation. Maybe something in pads, foil-backed? What I have stumbled across so far is polyester. My wife is even thinking leave the interior uninsulated - and I know there are those who prefer the raw walls - and hang wool blankets on the walls when used for camping. Simplicity.

 

[BradKW]

If even rigid poly iso is a concern for you, 3m thinsulate would be a much better option than nothing...

 

[highdesertranger]

the problem with cellulose-based insulation is it absorbs moisture. the wool blankets would work I have done it on tents, but again they absorb moisture. however they can be easily removed and aired out(dried). highdesertranger

 

[ZoNiE]

Spray foam has little insulation value unless it is at least 1" thick. You are better using polyiso or denim. I had a GMC motorhome that had tons of sprayfoam factory applied and it was basically worthless. It helped a little with heat conduction on the frame spars but there are better materials for that. I added denim insulation behind the walls and ceiling. Made a huge difference.

It does over expand and cause other problems. It made windows hard to slide in a house I owned...

 

[glworden]

Spray foam has little insulation value unless it is at least 1" thick. You are better using polyiso or denim. I had a GMC motorhome that had tons of sprayfoam factory applied and it was basically worthless. It helped a little with heat conduction on the frame spars but there are better materials for that.  I added denim insulation behind the walls and ceiling. Made a huge difference.

It does over expand and cause other problems. It made windows hard to slide in a house I owned...

Thanks for the info.  I am interested in denim and will have to look it up.  Have heard about jute.

 

[glworden]

If even rigid poly iso is a concern for you, 3m thinsulate would be a much better option than nothing...

Hi, I have looked up the 3M.  It is mainly used for clothing.  Have you used it to insulate a van wall or seen it used?  Thanks.

 

[highdesertranger]

I wouldn't use anything that holds moisture, unless it's easily removable. highdesertranger

 

[ggwoman]

Since a van is nothing more than a small metal building on wheels, and people seem to use reflectix stuff for windows quite a bit, why not something like this to insulate all the walls?  http://www.ecofoil.com/Applications/Metal-Building-Insulation
I would prefer to keep my windows available for use of light and air.

 

[glworden]

There is this Thermafleece wool-based insulation from the UK.

https://celticsustainables.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/the-best-insulation-for-camper-van-conversions/

 

[glworden]

There is this Thermafleece wool-based insulation from the UK.

https://celticsustainables.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/the-best-insulation-for-camper-van-conversions/

There are also US products such as this:
http://www.blackmountaininsulationusa.com/

 

[TMG51]

I'm not really sure why you're determined to be argumentative. I provided a proof of concept, not a statement that the material cannot be used in voids.

 

[johnny b]

I back what 'cognitive dissonance' has said 100%.
My high school buddies' families' businesses were in home building and insulation. I ran phone wiring and custom stuff in their custom built homes for years...my main concern (since I was doing the work as side jobs) was getting my wires in place before the foam guy sprayed the place. Those homes were as efficient as you could get as far as heating and cooling....NEVER were there ANY problems with 'smell' or 'off gassing'. One nice lady who lived in one of these homes just passed at the ripe old age of 95. (The home was built in the 80's so she was there during her most 'vulnerable' years)

SUMMARY (which has been repeated many times in this forum over the years):
Single can 'Great Stuff' or similar product is OPEN CELL foam and holds water....it will cause rust in a metal van. So don't use it in a van!
Two part CLOSED CELL spray foam either in the kits or professionally applied, is perfectly fine for van use as long as it is installed correctly.

The protective suit is because the stuff is very sticky and hard to wash off. Discarding a Tyvek (paper) disposable suit is just common sense and easy.
Eye protection and a good respirator are safety requirements only when applying the stuff...once cured it is perfectly safe.
Same protections as when your vehicle gets re-painted....the painter needs the respirator (or fresh air supply) but once done and the paint cures, it doesn't 'off gas' or smell.

Personally, for ease of use and best bang for the buck I'll be doing my van and trailer with Polyiso foam boards and am not going to bother with the 'ribs'. (If I was going to spend a majority of time in below freezing temps or in Death Valley, then I'd use the spray foam).

 

[glworden]

I am kind of astounded by the level of hostility on this forum.  I am obviously and admittedly a novice in this area - not claiming to be an expert and therefore asking questions and putting some ideas out there to see if they ring true.  I am not making anything up and have read everything I have stated somewhere - which is surely testament to the fact that there is a lot of misinformation and it is really hard  to figgure out what is true and what isn't.  I am not sure why you enjoy putting your answers in forms of putdowns, but it's not very nice.

As to the foam in closed places never curing, I realize there are myriad types of foams.  I think I read where somebody stated that they were surprised to read this on a can of Great Stuff.  Did he read it?  He said he did.  Is it true?  I don't know.  Call bullshit if you want.

I am just trying to gather info and opinions and do a good job with my van.  If I had expertise I would certainly share it.

 

[glworden]

SUMMARY (which has been repeated many times in this forum over the years):
Single can 'Great Stuff' or similar product is OPEN CELL foam and holds water....it will cause rust in a metal van. So don't use it in a van!
Two part CLOSED CELL spray foam either in the kits or professionally applied, is perfectly fine for van use as long as it is installed correctly.

THANK YOU FOR POLITELY EXPLAINING THAT DISTINCTION.



Personally, for ease of use and best bang for the buck I'll be doing my van and trailer with Polyiso foam boards and am not going to bother with the 'ribs'. (If I was going to spend a majority of time in below freezing temps or in Death Valley, then I'd use the spray foam).

i AM LEANING TOWARDS WOOL

 

[GotSmart]

I have seen way too many people grab a can of open cell SF and destroy a vehicle with it.  The toxic odors, as well as the covered existing rust is a nightmare.  

I just say NO to spray foam in a can.   :dodgy:

Now excuse me while I go get some Polyso to work on my van with. 

 

[highdesertranger]

don't confuse the Right Stuff 1 part foam(open cell), with 2 part closed cell foam. I am not saying to use it I am just saying it's two different products. btw wool absorbs moisture and takes a long time to dry out. again I have to say no one is being hostile, we are just trying to help. highdesertranger

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I am kind of astounded by the level of hostility on this forum.  I am obviously and admittedly a novice in this area - not claiming to be an expert and therefore asking questions and putting some ideas out there to see if they ring true.  I am not making anything up and have read everything I have stated somewhere - which is surely testament to the fact that there is a lot of misinformation and it is really hard  to figgure out what is true and what isn't.  I am not sure why you enjoy putting your answers in forms of putdowns, but it's not very nice.

As to the foam in closed places never curing, I realize there are myriad types of foams.  I think I read where somebody stated that they were surprised to read this on a can of Great Stuff.  Did he read it?  He said he did.  Is it true?  I don't know.  Call bullshit if you want.

I am just trying to gather info and opinions and do a good job with my van.  If I had expertise I would certainly share it.

I have no expertise on spray foam, other then the cans, which I have used, a lot, to fill gaps, in construction projects, I have heard that rust can occur if installed on metal but have no pictures , I don't know much about off gassing but imagine everything does for a long time. I don't know the difference between one part and two part, I know there is a  big difference between some cans over others. I also know that most of the time this forum is kind and helpful however some forums are very confrontational and individuals come here initially with that kind of bravado, everyone is allowed to join. I can assure you that is not the norm on this forum, it is very well moderated, it takes some people a little while to learn to leave their guns at the door. Please stay around, this forum always needs sensitive people, you can learn how to do a good job on your van on this forum as there are many who have done just that and are very helpful without putting anyone down. You have an option to ignore anyone you want if you find them unhelpful, impolite or rude but I wouldn't jump there too quickly everyone has something to offer, don't take it personally give them a chance and get to know their strengths. they may come in handy one day.

 

[akrvbob]

Cognitive Dissonance, I deleted your post--and one quoting it.

You aren't being helpful by pointing out way to do things better, you are attacking. Constructive criticism is allowed. Attacks are not--ever.

You are quickly heading toward moderation.
Bob

 

[GotSmart]

I am kind of astounded by the level of hostility on this forum.  

He sometimes gets excited.  

Just sit back and someone will clarify the facts.

 

[ggwoman]

There are also US products such as this:
http://www.blackmountaininsulationusa.com/

After reading all the benefits of insulating with wool (here's another great run down: http://www.sheepwoolinsulation.ie/why_wool/ ) and knowing some of the intricacies of wool first hand (shearing, spinning, dyeing, felting, weaving coverlets and rugs, etc.) and having used wool socks, shirts and blankets in my life (NOT in HI ! lol) , I think this is a wonderful product to use. It doesn't hold moisture, but it stabilizes it due to its breathability. I really like that there is no fumes, detectable or otherwise too, especially considering your wife. I can imagine as I am leery myself. We get enough dangerous crap in our everyday environment. I say go for it.

Since the metal wall of the van would prevent the wool breathing out that side, I'm thinking that a very airy and breathable sort of wood interior finish would be perfect. And without a varnish finish, but maybe a light oil to keep it conditioned? What are your thoughts? The only thing I can think of that may cause a problem would be moths?