Solar Kit - Is this a good thing?

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John61CT said:
Since the bank should all be the same age batts, you should buy not for the panels, you have now, which you know won't be enough,

but the right size for the total panels you will have in the future, in this case, the amount that will fill your available roof space.

The best battery value by far is Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, 200+AH @ less than $180 from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club.

In your case one pair is more than enough for now, but

two pair would be much better for your actual needs, in future having lots more panels.

You need in either case, to be careful not to draw down more than what your panels put back each day, IOW get back to 100% Full at least a few times per week.

How often are you getting to shore power for overnight topups?
At this point I do not have solar panels ... I don't need shore power as I have a van not an RV and I'm not on the road yet, although I will be.  Thanks for your feedback though, I appreciate you taking the time to respond.
 
RV-Hopeful said:
Well, I guess we've taken this topic as far as can be expected.  

Hi RV-Hopeful,
I have had to be away from the keyboard, but am now back for a spell. 

So if you dont mind, I would like to look further into what has not yet been addressed, as it seems to me, that some of the confusion and frustration, and some of the issues you had at the beginning, they got resolved. 

From my perspective, the process we had engaged in, was to address each of these issues, one at a time, in a fashion so they started to make sense to you. 

It seems to me, that we still need to look at; 

-  how to connect a handful of small batteries, so they all age and wear the same.
-  and that will inevitable lead us to also revisit the question; if it would it actually be much less expensive to use big batteries, despite their unfortunate bigness. 

-  what is the (daily) power usage of each of the appliances.
So far we looked at the ability for a 400W inverter to run each of them. Now we need to look at how much energy would they each draw from the daily available amount of energy. 
- this will inevitably lead to asking ourselves about, how care free can you expect to be about power usage. Especially on the high-power-consumption devices.



And to that "big old meanie" ;-) 

From my perspective, you do indeed bring up some very good and valid points, and add good and practical ideas and angles, that I find inspiring and wise, so please keep them coming. 

If I could however voice one request, then try to bring them to the table, so these nice ladies wont feel overwhelmed or under attack. As I somehow sense that that might be part of how they feel, at least in this particular thread. 

Or in other words, please keep me on the straight and narrow, and please dont let me get away with giving advice that could be read as misleading or even false. Okay?
 
Ah, I see that a few post were made while I was typing.


A note I would make about shore power. Or power available on the road in general.


It is always wise to have the tools so one can tap into any power source that one comes across, as having only a 200W or even a 400W solar power system available, is so much less than is available in a sticks-and-bricks situation.

So even though solar power is installed, I would highly recommend to still add that solenoid to the alternator, so  the house battery could be charged while the engine is running.

And whenever one gets in a situation where shore power is available, have an extension cord and a battery charger, so the batteries can be topped off.


Ask any RV or vandweller if their level of awareness  about having enough power available for the next 24-48 hours is ever something they think about. And if their level of awareness of this issue is in any way different from when they lived in a house.
 
Bohemian scout said:
I feel the same way... I’ve watched every video I can and read all the posts that apply to starting out with solar.  I’m getting closer but honestly I wish someone would just tell me what I need that works with my present battery. I started out with a 12 volt fridge because I dont like buying ice, Love cold drinks and storing leftovers. I bought the wrong battery because I thought my friend knew what he was talking about and he did the install for free. If it was as easy as buying a solar panel and hooking up to battery I could do that but then there’s fuses and a controller. Also which type of panel to buy? Until I decide I need to charge my battery. So besides driving how? I don’t want to screw up. I feel like I’m understanding more now but not enough to purchase.

Hi Bohemian scout, 
so you feel like you have the wrong battery? 

Could you tell us more about your setup, and how you typically use your fridge (and other electrics)? 

Will I be correct if I assume that your current setup includes a house battery, and a way to let your car charge the house battery, while you are driving? 

Do you also have an extension cord and a battery charger, so the house battery can be charged whenever you have shore power available?

What kid of fridge do you have? Or do you know how much power it uses in an hour or in a day? 
What kind of house battery do you have? Or more detailed, do you know its Ah capacity?
 
RV-Hopeful said:
At this point I do not have solar panels ... I don't need shore power as I have a van not an RV and I'm not on the road yet, although I will be.
RV vs van or trailer or box truck or SUV makes no difference.

And yes, we're trying to get you ready to get out there with a setup that works.

You need a bank big enough to carry your loads' AH needs for 3-4 days. I reckon 2 pair of those GCs, ~400AH.

Next, you need charge sources. If you can hook up to charge from mains every other day, then you need zero solar.

Let's pretend if you're staying out in the desert, solar only, 600W is enough.

But if you can get to mains for an overnight charge say every four days, then maybe 400W is enough.

Or you carry a small genny to run in the morning, then maybe 200W is enough.

Is that more clear?
 
MrAlvinDude said:
Hi Bohemian scout
A new separate thread, or BS linking us to a previous one, would help keep this one from getting too overwhelming people keeping track of what may be very different use cases.
 
MrAlvinDud said:
If I could however voice one request, then try to bring them to the table, so these nice ladies wont feel overwhelmed or under attack. As I somehow sense that that might be part of how they feel, at least in this particular thread. 

Or in other words, please keep me on the straight and narrow, and please dont let me get away with giving advice that could be read as misleading or even false. Okay?
Overwhelmed is an appropriate word times 100, at least in my case. You've been very helpful and gentle in your responses ... Thank you.
 
John61CT said:
RV vs van or trailer or box truck or SUV makes no difference.

And yes,  we're trying to get you ready to get out there with a setup that works.

You need a bank big enough to carry your loads' AH needs for 3-4 days. I reckon 2 pair of those GCs, ~400AH.

Next, you need charge sources. If you can hook up to charge from mains every other day, then you need zero solar.

Let's pretend if you're staying out in the desert,  solar only, 600W is enough.

But if you can get to mains for an overnight charge say every four days,  then maybe 400W is enough.

Or you carry a small genny to run in the morning,  then maybe 200W is enough.

Is that more clear?
Once on the road I plan to boondock as much as possible ... wasn't planning on a generator as they are typically noisy and heavy (however I've read many recommend having one). But since you mentioned it - doesn't the battery stay charged throughout the evening?  why would I need a gen in the AM? well pooh, I guess I need to add generator to the list ... wasn't planning to hookup except at family when visiting so there's that ...
 
John61CT said:
A new separate thread,  or BS linking us to a previous one,  would help keep this one from getting too overwhelming people keeping track of what may be very different use cases.

Yes, I was just saying how I feel the same way. I still haven’t figured out what I need. What is BS ?  I would love to link if I knew how. I’m trying to “know more” before I ask more questions. Didn’t want to highjack this post. RV hopeful and I seem to be on the same level as far as trying to understand and figure this whole solar/battery situation.
 
RV-Hopeful said:
 doesn't the battery stay charged throughout the evening?  

Well, if nothing is turned on during the night, then yes, it will be at the same charge in the morning. 

This is why we are sort of at the next step in the practical numbers and research of the numbers as they are used to express energy and energy consumption. 

When we live in a house (or anything that is hooked up to the grid), then we basically give our appliances (and energy consumption) hardly any second thoughts. We basically plug it in, and expect it to work, and the only time we think much about how much energy we have used, is when we need to pay the electric bill. And how often does that happen? Where I live it is every three months. 

When living off grid, attention needs to be given at least every day. And when things are first plugged in, attention is needed about every hour, until one learns how much each item affects the energy system. 

That is a very big change in attention needed. 


One way to adjust to understanding the energy numbers, whiles till living at home, could be to do a daily read of the electric house meter. 
Another way could be to get one of those kill-a-watt meters, that can be plugged into any electric outlet, and then you plugg the appliance into the back of the kill-a-watt unit. And the kill-a-watt meter will then be able to tell you how much energy is being used, right now, and every hour, and as long as a device is plugged in. And how many watt hours (Wh) (or kilo Watt hours - kWh) has been used while you used the the appliance. 

watt hours (Wh) can be directly translated into how many Ah (amp hours) the same activity would use from your battery. 



You say that you have already used many many hours and days to study videos etc. 
Are you ready to use perhaps one hour (possibly less) to get a presentation of how you can easily connect and compare; watt and  amps, and  watt hours (Wh) and amp hours (Ah)? 

The connection between watt, volt and amps is:  Watt =  Volt x Amp

If you have for exampl 50Ah that you can use from your 12V battery,  this is the same  50Ah x 12V = 600Wh. 

So if your appliance uses 600W it can be run for ONE hour, and then your battery is depleted. 
Or if your desktop computer uses 100W to run, the it can be run for 6 hours and your 600Wh (or 50Ah) in your battery is completely depleted. 


If you TV uses for instance 35W to tun, then 600Wh will be cone after watching TV for 600 / 35 = 17 hours. 

If you need both your PC and your TV on to actually use your computer, then you will be using 100W + 35 W = 135W to actually use your computer. Then you can do that activity for  600Wh / 135W = 4.4 hours and you PC day is over. 


If you have a 200Ah battery bank, you can use only 100Ah from the bank, until the battery life starts to suffer significantly. 


Are these numbers and examples making any sense? 



Do you have an idea about how many watt your appliances use, when turned on? 

How about if we go through you previous random list, and I will just guess typical numbers that each appliance is using. Okay? 

- desktop computer .:.  will use anywhere from 30W to 150W to run. Gaming computers can use much more, typically 200W to 500W. An actual test with a kill-a-watt style tester makes sense, as it is makes quite a bit of difference wheter the actual number is closer to 30W or 150W when the computer is running. 

- 24" smart tv for monitor and watching TV .:. is typicall 25W-35W  

- regular blow-dryer .:. Where I live a blow dryer typically uses 1600 to 2200W, but I live where the house power is 230V, So a US blow-dryer might use less typoically max 15A at 110V = max 1650W 

- 1 serving smoothie maker .:.  is typically 100W to 300W to run. I have a ½ gallon blender that I use for my smoothies at home, it says 1400W. I have a small travel blender, it says 300W  to run. 

- a little washer .:. these are likely to be at 100W-150W  to run.  


So I recommend you look for labels on your appliances, that will say how many watts is being used to run each item. As this will give us a much clearer picture of the energy calculation for a boondocking experience. 


For comparison a small handheld generator will typically be able to supply 1000W at full speed. A big handheld generator is typically 2000W  and those big RV generators go into 5000W or even 7500W. 



Just for comparison of a few handheld electronics. 

A typical smartphone has a battery of about 3000mAh or 3Ah (at 3.6V = 10Wh ), and if watching videos, it can most likely still run videos for several hours on one charge. 

A typical laptop will use 15-30W when showing videos. 



Am I helping or confusing with listing these numbers? 



So I still recommend
- doing a daily electric meter reading, just to start getting an idea of how easy it is to use a lot of electricity while living connected to the grid. 
- get a kill-a-watt style watt-meter at the local hardware store so it becomes more clear how much each appliance is actually using, when powered up. As those numbers on the labels are max numbers of watt, so the actual use can be lower when monitored over an hour or a day. 


Talk to you later. Okay? 
And let us look at actual numbers on each of your appliances. Okay?
 
Bohemian scout said:
Yes, I was just saying how I feel the same way. I still haven’t figured out what I need. What is BS ?  I would love to link if I knew how. I’m trying to “know more” before I ask more questions. Didn’t want to highjack this post. RV hopeful and I seem to be on the same level as far as trying to understand and figure this whole solar/battery situation.
You haven't hiighjacked this post at all ... seems you and I are in the same place ... confused. 8+)
 
MrAlvinDude said:
Hi Bohemian scout, 
so you feel like you have the wrong battery? 

Could you tell us more about your setup, and how you typically use your fridge (and other electrics)? 

Will I be correct if I assume that your current setup includes a house battery, and a way to let your car charge the house battery, while you are driving? 

Do you also have an extension cord and a battery charger, so the house battery can be charged whenever you have shore power available?

What kid of fridge do you have? Or do you know how much power it uses in an hour or in a day? 
What kind of house battery do you have? Or more detailed, do you know its Ah capacity?
 
MrAlvinDude said:
Well, if nothing is turned on during the night, then yes, it will be at the same charge in the morning. Wouldn't have a lot of use at night and I'm an early to bed early up person so I would imagine the battery would stay charged.

You say that you have already used many many hours and days to study videos etc. 
Are you ready to use perhaps one hour (possibly less) to get a presentation of how you can easily connect and compare; watt and  amps, and  watt hours (Wh) and amp hours (Ah)? 

The connection between watt, volt and amps is:  Watt =  Volt x Amp

If you have for exampl 50Ah that you can use from your 12V battery,  this is the same  50Ah x 12V = 600Wh. 

So if your appliance uses 600W it can be run for ONE hour, and then your battery is depleted. 
Or if your desktop computer uses 100W to run, the it can be run for 6 hours and your 600Wh (or 50Ah) in your battery is completely depleted. I could do this I think ...


If you TV uses for instance 35W to tun, then 600Wh will be cone after watching TV for 600 / 35 = 17 hours. 

If you need both your PC and your TV on to actually use your computer, then you will be using 100W + 35 W = 135W to actually use your computer. Then you can do that activity for  600Wh / 135W = 4.4 hours and you PC day is over.  It's confusing but becoming clearer ....

If you have a 200Ah battery bank, you can use only 100Ah from the bank, until the battery life starts to suffer significantly. 

Are these numbers and examples making any sense? 

Do you have an idea about how many watt your appliances use, when turned on? Not at this time

How about if we go through you previous random list, and I will just guess typical numbers that each appliance is using. Okay? 

- desktop computer .:.  will use anywhere from 30W to 150W to run. Gaming computers can use much more, typically 200W to 500W. An actual test with a kill-a-watt style tester makes sense, as it is makes quite a bit of difference wheter the actual number is closer to 30W or 150W when the computer is running. 

- 24" smart tv for monitor and watching TV .:. is typicall 25W-35W  

- regular blow-dryer - I'll get a 12v dryer this is now a non-issue

- 1 serving smoothie maker .:.  is typically 100W to 300W to run. I have a ½ gallon blender that I use for my smoothies at home, it says 1400W. I have a small travel blender, it says 300W  to run. Mine says 120V - 60Hz - 175W - I use about 5 mins couple days week.

- a little washer .:. these are likely to be at 100W-150W  to run.  this is so far down the road, I'm letting it go for now -

So I recommend you look for labels on your appliances, that will say how many watts is being used to run each item. As this will give us a much clearer picture of the energy calculation for a boondocking experience. 

For comparison a small handheld generator will typically be able to supply 1000W at full speed. A big handheld generator is typically 2000W  and those big RV generators go into 5000W or even 7500W. 

Just for comparison of a few handheld electronics. 

A typical smartphone has a battery of about 3000mAh or 3Ah (at 3.6V = 10Wh ), and if watching videos, it can most likely still run videos for several hours on one charge. 

A typical laptop will use 15-30W when showing videos. 

Am I helping or confusing with listing these numbers? I'm confused ... but maybe not as much as before.

So I still recommend
- doing a daily electric meter reading, just to start getting an idea of how easy it is to use a lot of electricity while living connected to the grid. 
- get a kill-a-watt style watt-meter at the local hardware store so it becomes more clear how much each appliance is actually using, when powered up. As those numbers on the labels are max numbers of watt, so the actual use can be lower when monitored over an hour or a day. 

Talk to you later. Okay? Thanks - later
And let us look at actual numbers on each of your appliances. Okay?
 
I posted on November 12th...Solar or not. I would link it but don’t know how. I was told I bought the wrong battery but I could make it work. I would like to be able to charge my house battery whlie my van is setting in other words when I’m not on a trip. I have not purchased a charger yet because I’m not sure what kind I should buy or how to charge the house battery. I think I can figure it out if it’s just like charging my vans battery. I just don’t want to make another mistake, I want to make sure I’m getting everything right. I would like to have a solar panel to get my battery charged when I’m not driving. The previous post describes my current set up with Photos. Thanks for asking I’ll take all the help I can get.
 
RV-Hopeful said:
doesn't the battery stay charged throughout the evening?
Ideally solar finishes 100% Full before sundown.

RV-Hopeful said:
why would I need a gen in the AM?
Loads keep discharging, battery is at maximum depletion in the morning. Hopefully not below 50%.

Thus a lead bank accepts high amps at that time. Genny is worth using up to 75, maybe 85%, after that bank accepts low amps, i.e. solar.

Which then has all day to carry loads plus finish the "long tail" charge at least 4-5 hours. Ideally getting to 100%.

With a good battery monitor ypu get more and more accurate knowing how long you need to run the genny, varies by season weather location.

With **lots** of solar, or lower usage, may not need to run it at all.

Only need to get to 100% Full a few times a week.

But always try to avoid going below 50%.
 
Bohemian scout said:
What is BS ?  I would love to link if I knew how.
Go to a past thread, copy the URL to your clipboard, come back here and paste.

BS short for your handle Bohemian scout
 
If you are sure you need to use an inverter - much cheaper and more efficient if you don't - then better to buy it, your batteries and a good mains charger, set it up at home, no solar.

Get a DC meter not AC Killawatt, like Watts Up, and measure the usage of your actual battery energy.

Convert each load device to an estimated AH per day, rounding up your usage hours per day.

Get that total and you have a handle on how much Wattage you need in panels.

When you see they won't fit on your roof, start replacing with more efficient devices. Or realize you need to spend more time running the genny, or less time using electricity on non-essential things, work at the library or Starbucks, whatever.

By the time you hit the road, like a scout fully prepared!
 
Okay, we got the watt usage info of this device

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]- 1 serving smoothie maker .:.  is typically 100W to 300W to run. I have a ½ gallon blender that I use for my smoothies at home, it says 1400W. I have a small travel blender, it says 300W  to run. [/font][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Mine says 120V - 60Hz - 175W - I use about 5 mins couple days week.[/font]

It says 175W  and we will do the numbers for a 5 minute use

5 minutes is 5 / 60 th of an hour = 5 / 60 = 0.083 hour
 
And  175W  x  0.083 hour =  2.9Wh

2.9Wh from a 12V battery translates to Ah as: 2.9Wh / 12V  = 0.25Ah


Then some energy is lost in the 400W inverter.  Typically as much as 20-30% is lost, lets say 30% just to be on the safe side in this calculation exercise,  so we end up with the total Ah usage to run your smoothie maker for 5 minutes to be 1.3 x 0.25Ah = 0.30 Ah


So running the smoothie maker does not make much difference, no matter which battery you have, mainly because it is only used for a very short time.
 
But startup could require 1000+w when sizing an inverter.
 
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