Solar Kit - Is this a good thing?

[RV-Hopeful]

If you don't know what you want to power from your solar system now or in the future it is impossible to give specific advice. You may not even need a separate system or have expectations that are not feasible with solar. Most people start with some LED lights, charging phone and laptop...

Guy

Thanks Guy. I will have a desktop computer because that's all I have at present, I will have my 24" smart tv for monitor and watching, I would like to have my regular blow-dryer, use my small 1 serving smoothie maker. Eventually I'd like to power a little washer. I'll total those items and see what happens.

 

[RV-Hopeful]

Glad to hear that you have found a solution path that you are happy with  :shy:

I so like that good feeling of clarity when a solutions makes sense.

Couldn't have done it without you! You really cleared away the muck I'd accumulated via TMI overload. Much appreciated.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

Couldn't have done it without you! You really cleared away the muck I'd accumulated via TMI overload. Much appreciated.

You are quite welcome 


Your link to the kit, seemed broken. Is this the kit? 
https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Volts-Monocrystalline-Bundle/dp/B00B8L8MD2

 

[RV-Hopeful]

You are quite welcome 


Your link to the kit, seemed broken. Is this the kit? 
https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Volts-Monocrystalline-Bundle/dp/B00B8L8MD2

Yes, that's it. Dang the battery is expensive. So I noticed 200ah AGM with 6v or 12v, I would assume I need the 12v ... Thanks again for your help

 

[MrAlvinDude]

About the right size inverter for your appliances

I will have a desktop computer because that's all I have at present,   a 400W inverter is fine
I will have my 24" smart tv for monitor and watching,  a 400W inverter is fine
I would like to have my regular blow-dryer,  ups, may need more than a 400W inverter to work
use my small 1 serving smoothie maker.  might work on  400W inverter
Eventually I'd like to power a little washer.  if the model is the one seen in one of Bobs videos (as well as on a recent Nomadic Fanatic video) then a 400W inverter is fine
I'll total those items and see what happens.

Your current blow-dryer might be the one that messes up you energy calculation. You might want to look at a 12V blow dryer or a travel size blow dryer. Neither will give as much air or heat as you typical normal blow-dryer, so you might need to make the blow-dryer determine the size inverter you will need to buy.


Next step is to see for how long you will typically run each appliance.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

Dang the battery is expensive. So I noticed 200ah AGM with 6v or 12v, I would assume I need the 12v 

One 12V 200Ah 
or
two 12V 100Ah each
or 
Two 6V 200Ah each. 

Because two 6V batteries can be connected in series. Series doubles the total voltage

And two 12V batteries in parallel, doubles the amperage. 


I hope series and parallel makes sense. Otherwise a drawing will help, as it is difficult to describe in words only.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

This ebay list will most likely indicate the lowest possible price for a 100Ah AGM battery.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...r=1&_nkw=agm+100ah+battery&LH_PrefLoc=1&rt=nc


And this is probably the highest quality deep cycle battery you can get, at a very reasonably price.
https://www.amazon.com/Trojan-105Ah-Flooded-Battery-Marine/dp/B00NY0RULU
It is however NOT AGM, but is a flooded battery.  So it will need a box and ventilation, and will need monthly nursing.
If you can learn the nursing rutine, a flooded battery is however likely to be one to serve you for a very long time.

The ventilation can be just a tube, like a garden water hose.


And here is another link to some reasonably priced batteries. But still flooded batteries though.
https://www.batteriesplus.com/batte...ical=9021925&gclid=CLCPzquBwtYCFZS1wAodxO4C5Q



Did you happen to come across this thread in your search for batteries?
https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=12810&pid=128586#pid128586
Here Bob shares his opinion both on some specific batteries, and  a general observation on how to assess the quality of a battery, and to see if the producer is truthful about capacity numbers.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

This might be the Fullriver batteries he is talking about.

At amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Fullriver-Group-224Ah-Sealed-Battery/dp/B00QSJT0PS

And at wholesalesolar
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/9902...fullriver-dc224-6-agm-sealed-6v-224ah-battery



Or perhaps there is a distributor near you, so you can save on shipping
http://www.fullriverbattery.com/content/distributors/north-america

 

[RV-Hopeful]

About the right size inverter for your appliances

Your current blow-dryer might be the one that messes up you energy calculation. You might want to look at a 12V blow dryer or a travel size blow dryer. Neither will give as much air or heat as you typical normal blow-dryer, so you might need to make the blow-dryer determine the size inverter you will need to buy.

Next step is to see for how long you will typically run each appliance.

I can live without the blow dryer.  I was just thinking about the things I use the most.  Can for sure get a travel size dryer. the 12v driers don't have good reviews for the price.  I read all your other posts and want to thank you once again!

 

[RV-Hopeful]

One 12V 200Ah 
or
two 12V 100Ah each
or 
Two 6V 200Ah each. 

Because two 6V batteries can be connected in series. Series doubles the total voltage

And two 12V batteries in parallel, doubles the amperage. 

I hope series and parallel makes sense. Otherwise a drawing will help, as it is difficult to describe in words only.

I'll look at the weight of either the one or the combo's ... I can't lift too heavy an item.  I had read that you could put batteries in series so that may be the route if the smaller voltage/Ah = lighter lift.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

 I had read the you could put batteries in series so that may be the route if the smaller voltage/Ah = lighter lift.

That is correct. 

For parallel of batteries you simply add together the amperage

For series of batteries you simply add together the voltage


And it is also possible to combine both parallel and series. This way it is possible to use very small batteries into big power banks, big in both amperage and voltage, when compared to the numbers of any low voltage or low amperage, small in size batteries. 

For lead acid batteries, the smaller they get in physical size (and thus also Ah), the more natural it is to make them as 12V batteries, so one just need to use several in parallel, in order to get the high Ah numbers. 




I wonder if this information scales as well 
"A 200 ah 12 volt battery should still weigh about 120 pounds or they are deceiving you." 

This puts 1Ah at 120/200 = 0.6 pounds per Ah
if it does scale, then a 35Ah battery ought to weigh around  21 pounds. 


Either way, 200Ah made from 35Ah batteries takes 6 batteries ( 6x 35Ah = 210Ah )


This one is 23 pounds
https://www.amazon.com/ML35-12-Battery-Replaces-Mighty-product/dp/B00K8E0WAG

This is 22 pounds
https://www.ebay.com/itm/UPG-12V-35AH-Group-U1-Deep-Cycle-Sealed-Battery-/130744120170

And so is this
https://www.renogy.com/upg-12v-35ah-agm-sealed-lead-acid-battery/#tab_prd-specs

and this 
https://www.walmart.com/ip/12V-35AH...00-Kayak-Trolling-Motor-Battery-SLA/159020228


And though it does not say so in all of the headlines, these are all mentioned to be AGM batteries, when looking at extended details on each of the web pages.

 

[John61CT]

I'll look at the weight of either the one or the combo's ... I can't lift too heavy an item.  I had read that you could put batteries in series so that may be the route if the smaller voltage/Ah = lighter lift.

OK, you are getting a huge amount of information that is ignoring the most important fundamentals.

In order for your setup to work, the energy charging the bank each day must be greater than what you are taking out.

A desktop computer, regular TV blow dryer fercrissakes! Plus inverters, all this is going to use way too much power, unless you spend **a lot** of money.

Even if you get an efficient laptop and forget about the dryer, you will still need 200+A in batteries and best to fill your whole roof with panels.

Remember, parking all day in desert sunshine is optimal for energy, but you won't get that ideal all the time.

Forget about what you can lift, get someone to help, it only needs doing once every few years if you treat the batts well.

The best battery value by far is Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, 200+AH @ less than $180 from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club.

Fill your roof with solar, much as you can fit.

AND curtail your usage to what goes in from the solar each day, unless you can get to mains power every other day, then get a bigger bank and you can skip the solar part.

You will be able to use your TV and computer many more hours per day if you get more energy efficient versions.

Then maybe you'll have enough for the blow dryer on sunny days for 2-4 minutes.

 

[Bohemian scout]

Sadly I've read many things (that included) as well as watched a gazillion videos and my eyes glaze over and my brain sizzles.

I'll give it another shot tho. thanks!

I feel the same way... I’ve watched every video I can and read all the posts that apply to starting out with solar.  I’m getting closer but honestly I wish someone would just tell me what I need that works with my present battery. I started out with a 12 volt fridge because I dont like buying ice, Love cold drinks and storing leftovers. I bought the wrong battery because I thought my friend knew what he was talking about and he did the install for free. If it was as easy as buying a solar panel and hooking up to battery I could do that but then there’s fuses and a controller. Also which type of panel to buy? Until I decide I need to charge my battery. So besides driving how? I don’t want to screw up. I feel like I’m understanding more now but not enough to purchase.

 

[RV-Hopeful]

OK,  you are getting a huge amount of information that is ignoring the most important fundamentals.

In order for your setup to work,  the energy charging the bank each day must be greater than what you are taking out.

A desktop computer,  regular TV (I've watched several video's where people are doing just that!) blow dryer <laugh here please) fercrissakes! Plus inverters,  all this is going to use way too much power, unless you spend **a lot** of money. I know these things, but the person asked and those items are my long term items.  Yes, I can buy an appropriate blow dryer (that was just a freaky fun gotcha thing I put in - like hello {laugh here}) ... but I want my computer and I don't have the $$ to buy a laptop yet.

Even if you get an efficient laptop and forget about the dryer,  you will still need 200+A in batteries and best to fill your whole roof with panels.

Remember,  parking all day in desert sunshine is optimal for energy,  but you won't get that ideal all the time.  I live in New Mexico and while we have 360 days of sunshine I realize there will have to be some tempering of what my expectations are. 

Forget about what you can lift,  get someone to help,  it only needs doing once every few years if you treat the batts well.  If I had someone to help me it wouldn't have the concern.  Plan thus far is to get all the items and then purchase the battery and have someone there put in the van.

The best battery value by far is Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, 200+AH @ less than $180 from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club. Thanks! I'll ck it out.

Fill your roof with solar,  much as you can fit.

AND curtail your usage to what goes in from the solar each day, unless you can get to mains power every other day,  then get a bigger bank and you can skip the solar part.

You will be able to use your TV and computer many more hours per day if you get more energy efficient versions.

Then maybe you'll have enough for the blow dryer on sunny days for 2-4 minutes.

 

[RV-Hopeful]

Well, I guess we've taken this topic as far as can be expected. Thanks for all the contributions and to those who think my questions, expectation, etc are ridiculous ... well ... it took me 3 months to broach the subject the forum - lots of starts and then deleting and while I did get some great information from several people, I also felt slightly ridiculed and so ... I'll just do what I do and continue to peruse the forum, video's etc but I probably will limit my questions.

 

[RV-Hopeful]

I feel the same way... I’ve watched every video I can and read all the posts that apply to starting out with solar.  I’m getting closer but honestly I wish someone would just tell me what I need that works with my present battery. I started out with a 12 volt fridge because I dont like buying ice, Love cold drinks and storing leftovers. I bought the wrong battery because I thought my friend knew what he was talking about and he did the install for free. If it was as easy as buying a solar panel and hooking up to battery I could do that but then there’s fuses and a controller. Also which type of panel to buy? Until I decide I need to charge my battery. So besides driving how? I don’t want to screw up. I feel like I’m understanding more now but not enough to purchase.

One would think with all the info confusion wouldn't be a factor but I get into such overwhelm!  Yep, the hooking up of the panels isn't the challenge .. it's spending oodles of money on something then (like your refrigerator battery) finding out it's not right. Fuses and controller and inverter and all that.  I'm just going to forge ahead and MrAlvinDude had some wonderful information for me and helped me narrow down options.

 

[John61CT]

It is not hard to hire a strong back, especially in that part of the world.

Toss a clerk $20 at the place you buy the batteries?

I'm just saying having to string a dozen tiny batts together to get what you need is not the way to go.

Yes of course a PC that burns 5x the energy *can* be done off-grid, but the extra panel and battery capacity plus quality inverter will cost lots more than a new more efficient computer.

We all need to work within the limits dictated by physics, a reality where wishful thinking does no good.

 

[John61CT]

I wonder if this information scales as well 
"A 200 ah 12 volt battery should still weigh about 120 pounds or they are deceiving you." 

This puts 1Ah at 120/200 = 0.6 pounds per Ah

if it does scale, then a 35Ah battery ought to weigh around  21 pounds. 

Yes but what OP actually needs (and can afford) *has to* weigh well over 100 lbs.

AGM just means lousy quality at greater expense, and needing to be replaced a lot more frequently. Good quality AGM will be even more expensive, in this case unaffordable.

Yes stringing 6 or 8 of these together is possible, but not sensible. More danger, shorter life.

None of these are decent quality for real deep cycling usage long-term

**And** they are a lot more expensive than doing it right!

So, sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, yes call me a big old meanie,

but I'm trying to help y'all not waste your scarce resources on stuff you'll end up having to replace

much sooner than you need to

because you didn't receive (absorb, accept) the right information.

Holding off, saving your pennies until you *can* afford to do it right will pay off big-time over 3-5 years.

All that said, this is only so hard because of living off grid.

If you can just get to mains power a few times a week, 90% of the complications and 75% of the expense just go away.

 

[RV-Hopeful]

so what battery would you buy to support 200 watts solar?  that's what I need to know.

like bohemian scout wrote ... some of us just need to know what to buy without all the minutia.  Understating how to use it is important for sure, but so much info is paralyzing to many of us.

Bob has videos out on simplifying solar ... I've watched the first and see there is a second. I'll ck it out.

 

[John61CT]

Since the bank should all be the same age batts, you should buy not for the panels, you have now, which you know won't be enough,

but the right size for the total panels you will have in the future, in this case, the amount that will fill your available roof space.

The best battery value by far is Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, 200+AH @ less than $180 from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club.

In your case one pair is more than enough for now, but

two pair would be much better for your actual needs, in future having lots more panels.

You need in either case, to be careful not to draw down more than what your panels put back each day, IOW get back to 100% Full at least a few times per week.

How often are you getting to shore power for overnight topups?