Snake Bites

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Here's an article on snake bite treatment by a couple of Emergency Room MDs.  This is primarily interesting background information.

https://www.aliem.com/2017/06/envenomations-snakebites/

 

[XFILE36]

I have to be one of the luckiest people in the world.  I've never seen a rattlesnake in person and didn't grow up around snakes.  Only snake I ever saw was a water moccasin in Ohio.  Several years ago, I was hiking with a friend and had to, pee.  I went in a bush and looked down and saw a baby snake.  I described the snake to my friend while I was doing my business.  The snake was about 1 foot away or less from my behind.  (Hey, when a girl's gotta go, she's gotta go.)  So, when I got home I looked up what a baby rattler looked like and sure enough.  Not only was it a rattler, but they said the babies are MORE venomous than the adults.  I count myself as very lucky/protected and much more knowledgeable about snakes.  

 

[TrainChaser]

When I worked for a vet in SoCal, we got several snakebitten pets nearly every summer; once, three in one day. I asked my doctor if he got many people who have been bitten, and he said that most people go to the ER, and he mostly gets the aftercare. But he did warn me to avoid the cut/suck/spit treatment if possible, just get to a doctor. He said that he had heard of a guy who did the cut/suck/spit routine on someone else, forgetting some kind of cut he had in his mouth, and the venom got into that, so both of them had to be treated for snakebite...... As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

And if you live around coral snakes (or are visiting the area), remember that some NON-TOXIC striped snakes just sort of resemble coral snakes. Remember this: Red next to black is a friend to Jack; Red next to yellow can kill a fellow.

 

[XFILE36]

When I worked for a vet in SoCal, we got several snakebitten pets nearly every summer; once, three in one day.  I asked my doctor if he got many people who have been bitten, and he said that most people go to the ER, and he mostly gets the aftercare.  But he did warn me to avoid the cut/suck/spit treatment if possible, just get to a doctor.  He said that he had heard of a guy who did the cut/suck/spit routine on someone else, forgetting some kind of cut he had in his mouth, and the venom got into that, so both of them had to be treated for snakebite...... As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

And if you live around coral snakes (or are visiting the area), remember that some NON-TOXIC striped snakes just sort of resemble coral snakes.  Remember this:  Red next to black is a friend to Jack; Red next to yellow can kill a fellow.

Thanks for the info, and I'm in SoCal for now.

 

[TrainChaser]

And the most important part:  NEVER use a tourniquet if you don't KNOW how to use a Snake Bite Tourniquet!  A Stop-Bleeding tourniquet is NOT, repeat NOT the same technique.  A Stop-Bleeding tourniquet, applied for 20 minutes, GUARANTEES the amputation of the limb.

 

[lenny flank]

This is a topic upon which I can speak with some authority, since I made my living for several years doing live reptile shows for school classrooms and did several books on the subject, and have kept several dozen species of snakes including venomous. (Since I was careful, I never got bitten--but I know people who have. It is not a pleasant experience.)

The bottom line: nothing you can do at home will help. Forget tourniquets or constriction bands, forget cutting and sucking, forget split chickens or raw meat or coffe grounds or whiskey or electric stun guns or any of the other goofy home remedies you may have heard about. None of them helps.

The ONLY thing that effectively treats snakebite is antivenom, and you can only get that at a hospital.

As professional snake keepers put it, "The best equipment for treating snakebite is a set of car keys to get your ass to a hospital." (Most pros actually have a spare set of keys hanging in their snake room. I did.)

 

[lenny flank]

And the most important part:  NEVER use a tourniquet if you don't KNOW how to use a Snake Bite Tourniquet!  A Stop-Bleeding tourniquet is NOT, repeat NOT the same technique.  A Stop-Bleeding tourniquet, applied for 20 minutes, GUARANTEES the amputation of the limb.

The use of a compression bandage (NOT a "tourniquet"--as you note, they are not the same thing) is called the "Australia Method". It was developed for use in elapid bites, in which the venom takes a bit longer to act and is carried mostly through the lymph system--and also where most snakebites occur in remote areas that are far from medical facilities.

There's really no need for the technique in the US, though. Only one of our native snakes--the coral snake--is an elapid: all the rest are viperids, in which any such compression or restriction will cause MORE local tissue damage.

As I note above, there is only one effective treatment for snakebite, and that is antivenom from a hospital. Anything else is pretty much useless.

 

[lenny flank]

 So, when I got home I looked up what a baby rattler looked like and sure enough.  Not only was it a rattler, but they said the babies are MORE venomous than the adults.  I count myself as very lucky/protected and much more knowledgeable about snakes.  

It's actually a little more interesting than that....

Snakes can consciously control the amount of venom they inject with each bite. (In fact, in about 50% of all defensive bites, the snake does not actually inject any venom at all--a phenomenon known as a "dry bite".)  But baby rattlers have not yet learned enough muscle control to do this very well, so when they bite they tend to squeeze out a full load with each bite. So their venom is not actually more powerful than an adult's (it's the same venom in both), but they tend to inject a higher dose than an adult would, making their bites just as dangerous.

And since baby snakes get eaten by lots of things, they tend to get scared and bite more readily, whereas adults tend to be lazy and will often just lie still and hope you go away.

 

[XFILE36]

 baby rattlers have not yet learned enough muscle control to do this very well, so when they bite they tend to squeeze out a full load with each bite. So their venom is not actually more powerful than an adult's (it's the same venom in both), but they tend to inject a higher dose than an adult would, making their bites just as dangerous.

And since baby snakes get eaten by lots of things, they tend to get scared and bite more readily, whereas adults tend to be lazy and will often just lie still and hope you go away.

Interesting.  I want to add something.  I was looking for a rattle on the baby, but didn't really see one.  That's because babies are born venomous, but cannot rattle and are often more aggressive than the adults.  They have to shed their skin to form the rattle and each shedding forms a new ring.  Right Lenny?

 

[lenny flank]

Interesting.  I want to add something.  I was looking for a rattle on the baby, but didn't really see one.  That's because babies are born venomous, but cannot rattle and are often more aggressive than the adults.  They have to shed their skin to form the rattle and each shedding forms a new ring.  Right Lenny?

That is correct--it takes a few sheds before a young rattler has a functional "rattle".

 

[bullfrog]

Just leave them alone, keep your hands in your pockets and watch where you step. The gas station at Hite Utah has an ice machine sitting outside the entrance door on blocks that on almost every cool day provides warmth for the local rattle snakes. Always made my day when someone bought ice and the sound of rattles sent them running.

 

[owl]

I was bit by a rattler outside of Sedona last spring a year ago. Went to urgent care in town, they took my vitals and sent me back to camp. Some pain and swelling, no big deal.

 

[XFILE36]

And if you live around coral snakes (or are visiting the area), remember that some NON-TOXIC striped snakes just sort of resemble coral snakes.  Remember this:  Red next to black is a friend to Jack; Red next to yellow can kill a fellow.

That reminds me of a line from a movie..I think it's MEET THE THE FOCKERS.  Re: conserving water to flush the toilet, "...if it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown, flush it down", LOL  Kind of the same thing.

 

[XFILE36]

Just leave them alone, keep your hands in your pockets and watch where you step.  

And I will add one more thing, watch where you squat!

 

[bullfrog]

Rattle Snakes don't like anything bigger than they can eat and will run away in most cases from a human's body heat. They slow down in cooler temperatures and sometimes can not get out of your way fast enough but usually won't strike unless you step on or in most cases play with them. It was probably more scared of you than you were of it!

 

[TrainChaser]

Don't wear sandals or flipflops in snake country. And carry a stick if you're walking in grass; tap it on the ground as you go. Snakes would rather avoid you, but they will bite if you insist. We shall assume that everyone here is smart enough not to tease them.

 

[Scott7022]

I have never gone "down under" because of the venomous creatures. Been invited a few times. Just last month A great guy invited me to overland with him as he had joined our expedition in Russia for a short time. I declined and told him why. He said I was crazy because I had lived in the african bush for so many years the outback was a cakewalk. Of course all of this was said in that typical easy going style that make Ausies so cool. I actually thought about going.

Get to Emergency and keep you or the patient calm. "Ah mate it's probably a dry bite but come lets go get a doc to look at it."

Snakes are a real issue in Africa and I get my friends point of view but what get me are spiders. I hate the damn things more than Africans hate snakes and they hate snakes. I got shown how to walk by locals when I was in country and how to run by a nasty Black Mamba. Never step over a fallen tree without looking and when walking into tall grass make sure the tall grass is actually tall grass and not a bunch of Gabon Vipers. They stand up and sway in the breeze and thankfully unless it escaped from an underground illegal snake keeper you won't see any on our side of the world! The Black Mamba chased me across a sports field. It would have outrun me too. But a road and a transport truck ended that fight.

Same good advice here as there. Get to urgent care and take your mind, or friends, off the incident and help them unstress.

 

[lenny flank]

Alas, when i was in South Africa I was HOPING to see some of the local snakes.....but never saw a single one. Despite hours of looking.

 

[Scott7022]

Yeah South Africa, Cape, Sun City, and Joberg going to have to go to the zoo. Like I said "they" hate them. Mamba was in Mozambique and Gabon Vipers were in Gabon. I almost walked into the leg break buggers. Saw puff adders on the cliffs of Xia Xia in Mozambique. If I am remembering correctly. That was a bad day as I got bit by a Bird Spider, my friend was a New Zeland native and he saw the spider and looked at me and said; "You gonna die." Probably the most inappropriate thing to say past do you want to marry me. I woke up the next day. The Mozambique Bird spider is not as lethal as their Ausie cousin

 

[Gary68]

being from nw oregon and have never really lived with venomous snakes i have to be leary of this,i have noted how out getting firewood i just reach down and grab anything and stick my legs in between logs and pay no attention so if i spend time in venomous snake territory i am going to start off with those snake leg protectors until i start paying attention

it's the prudent thing to do and i really dont want to get snake bit