Simple set-up/Advice

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Van Drifter

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Hello all, First post and I want to make atleast a worthy one. So I plan on moving into a van I recently purchased but not for another 6 months until more money has been saved for emergency fund etc, But I would like to get a general setup that would be needed for my needs.

1. General Use laptop ran 24/7.
2. Coleman cooler
3. Cheap coffer maker.

This set-up to me is minimalist in some ways. So I wanted to ask you all since I have no idea where to start what would be a good set-up + price point to cover those needs? Also, how much would it cost to get it professionally installed (I live within Seattle to Olympia) and if it's too much I would be willing to pay someone with-in the area to do the install.

Thanks Guys and Gals. The Information that's been posted on this board has been invaluable and gave me a better understanding of "Off Grid" living.
 
24/7 on a laptop?

Figure a minimum of 3 amps per hour to keep it running with a fully charged battery
3x24 =73 amp hours.

200 watts of solar can return about 70 amp hours on a good long sunny day after March 21 before September 21.

Coleman cooler. If this is an inexpensive thermoelectric cooler, these draw 4 amps minimum, continuously, and this is not their only drawback.
4x24=96 amp hours

Just these two items, used as you state would require 3 large group 27 batteries( 115 A/h each) to keep from falling below 50% state of charge, assuming they were 100% to start with, and ignoring things like Peukert effect and Inverter efficiency.

I am not sure about the electric coffee maker, how much it draws, how long it takes nor how often you would use it.

Lets say once a day, and it draws 600 watts for 15 minutes.

600 watts at 12.6 volts is nearly 48 amps. Each cup of coffee will cost 12 amp hours minimum from the battery. But due to the peukert effect the toll on the battery will be significantly higher.

The devices above will require more Solar panel than you can realistically fit on a van's roof, and certainly not in the PacNW on an average day.

This 'Minimalist' approach will not work as you will need a huge battery bank and a vast amount of solar, or a generator and a good charger/converter or some other serious recharging regimen to properly recharge those batteries.

Or you need to drive 12 hours each day with a beefed up alternator charging circuit.

A minimalist would use a tablet, an Ice filled cooler and a Bialetti espresso maker on a propane or butane stove. Or a french press, or a regular percolator.

bialetti_1.jpg


Transferring stick and brick luxuries to a rolling box is not as easy as buying an inverter and a battery and a solar panel.
 
First, laptops vary in power usage quite a bit depending on the model and how you use it. I'd suggest looking up reviews of your specific model to see what the power consumption is.

Is the coleman cooler thermoelectric? If so, dump it and use ice or a compressor powered 12v fridge.

You may want to look into a propane coffee maker or just a simple pot with a french press.

I have a 235 watt panel with a compressor fridge and 16 hr per day laptop habit and it's fine in summer but not quite enough in Nevada in winter. I have a Yamaha 2000 watt generator I need to run occasionally when it gets cloudy. In the NW you'll get considerably less sun. I'd probably want 500 watts up there or some other backup such as somewhere you can run a generator for an hour a day without bothering anyone.
 
I have been experimenting with cold brew coffee, I prefer the taste. it doesn't use any power or fuel but is much more time consuming. just something to consider.
is there any reason why the laptop can't be shut off when you are sleeping?
 
Hey, Thanks for the responses guys. The laptop is 2-3 year old Samsung, it reads on the back 19v=3.16a at 60w, the coleman cooler is this http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-40-Quart-PowerChill-Thermoelectric-Cooler/dp/B0014VSR90
and the coffee maker is just some $20 dollar one I've had for a while now... I don't plan to keep that plugged in all the time, just enough for a good cup of coffee for the morning.

BTW: What was a simple set up you all used when you first started? Also, What about installation cost of a basic set up done by a "Professional" shop vs Someone else who just knows how to do it through experience? I would obviously pay for the work done. I'm in particular looking for something that doesn't drain power from the van battery itself and is cost efficient.
 
Welcome Van Drifter!

I'm just north of you in the Snoqualmie Valley. I'm not clear from your original post if you want to install solar panels or not. Or, if you plan to plug in somewhere during the day or night. Or, if you plan to run your van to power your items off the starter battery. Unless you have access to plug-in electricity, it's important to have items that draw as little electricity as possible ... as you can tell from the responses you've received so far.

It would be helpful, as you figure out your power needs, how much you need stuff to be running. For example, do you really need a laptop to be on 24/7? In fact, could you get by with a computing device that draws less power like a notebook or a tablet. Could you turn it off when you are sleeping?

The same goes with how you plan to keep your food cold. Thermoelectric coolers (the ones that can either heat or cool) don't work very well, but don't cost too much to purchase. In comparison, 12v compressor refrigerators work well and use electricity efficiently, but are quite costly. Another option, which requires no electricity, is to get a regular cooler and purchase blocks of ice every day or so. Or, you can figure out how to get by without any cooler. That's what I do. And, if I need to keep something somewhat cool for a day or so, I use the evaporation method by placing a wet towel over the food and placing it in shade.

As for coffee, others have given great suggestions for non-electric options -- stove top espresso makers, percolators, french presses, cold brew, aeropress, or even a good instant like Via.

Being off-grid, even with solar, typically means figuring out how to use less electricity to do the same tasks as before you became a minimalist.

Have fun planning.

Suanne
 
Van Drifter, Here is my current set up for computing, cooling and coffee -- HP notebook, mifi & smartphone, evaporative cooling when needed, Starbucks VIA for instant coffee. I'm a part-timer who lives for months at a time out of an '04 Prius. I run my car, at low cost, to re-charge my notebook, mifi and smartphone, using 12v connections. Suanne
 
The 60 watt Samsung figure is the maximum the laptop can draw from the provided power supply. It will draw 60 watts when charging a dead battery and maxing out the processor with intensive tasks. 60 watts is not a bad maximum draw, but it is still a big load. Especially at 24/7.

What is the need for 24/7 anyway if you don;t mind me asking?

My 90 watt adapter is pulling about 60 watts right now typing this and streaming some History channel WW documentaries The laptop battery is already full.

The coleman coolers are designed for being powered only when the engine is running, and even then they cannot cool to more than 40 degrees below ambient. Above 80 degrees F and your food will be above the 40 degree threshhold for keeping food safe. You cannot power one of these via battery power only for any length of time. Just forget the idea. If you cannot take the product back or sell it, just take a sledgehammer to it ands call it a lesson learned the hard way.

Electric coffee makers are energy hogs. There are better methods for having coffee if you enter this lifestyle.

You are still looking at a large expensive battery bank and a lot of solar. Significantly less would be needed if you would just get a real compressor fridge. Those thermo electric coolers are a Joke. hideously inefficient, and in hot temps, hideously ineffective.

You want a fridge, this is the cheapest most efficient front loading compressor fridge available.
http://www.truckfridge.com/tf49acdc.html.

The inverter powering a 120Vac dorm fridge will still use twice the battery power.

I dont want to continue. I feel as If I am being too negative, but your expectations of battery power are unrealistic.

You are seeking to do things others have done before you. The Simple system you are envisioning to power what you want, is actually very energy intensive. The amount of battery capacity required is massive. Properly recharging those batteries will not be easy, and at some point the batteries will just fall flat, and then you will seek out ways to keep them healthier, by using less battery power, and having better recharging sources.

The vehicle's alternator is not a magical nor instant battery charger. It is actually quite limited in its abilities despite the attitudes of the populace toward its abilities. If you run a van's starting battery dead, perhaps it can recharge it to 80% in 5 hours of driving. Another 5 hours or more would be needed to get it to "100%" and if one were really trying to reach 100% and tested the battery at this point with a Hydrometer reading the specific gravity, well most people's Idea of 100% is in reality about 92%. A true 100% is actually difficult to achieve and the alternator is probably the poorest method for accomplishing that goal. It is a goal because that 100% is like a battery reset button, like restarting a frozen windows computer. Batteries cyled in the 50 to 805 range without a weekly or every 10 day near 100% recharge are not going to live long.


Wiring up an effective system is a Lot of work. Expect the labor costs to be the same or a perhaps 35% more than the costs of the battery(s), inverter, solar, Fridge, solar controller/panel, wiring, terminals, Solenoids, fuses and all the other little things needed to complete it. I'd have a hard time trusting any such place to actually do a good job, and mate the right products and wiring sizes with the right battery capacity and solar. Like many modern mechanics, they are just part replacers and have little ability to plan ahead accordingly.

Start out with a cooler and Block ice.
Plug your Samsung laptop model number into amazon electronics and add "car adapter"
Buy a jumper pack and learn how to use it.

When you starting battery fails, jump it with the jumper pack, and plan to replace it with a Marine battery.
 
Suanne said:
Van Drifter, Here is my current set up for computing, cooling and coffee -- HP notebook, mifi & smartphone, evaporative cooling when needed, Starbucks VIA for instant coffee. I'm a part-timer who lives for months at a time out of an '04 Prius. I run my car, at low cost, to re-charge my notebook, mifi and smartphone, using 12v connections. Suanne

Hey Suanne, I'm out here by Ft. Lewis. I'm just a guy working a job (Not bad pay but it all get's sucked into rent and the likes) that want's to live the mobile life while working. This forum has pretty much opened a new light in me that before I would of never thought of due to societal norms of having a house/apartment and enduring the grueling hustle of everyday life and being told "that's the way it is". I'm looking to get out and actually start to enjoy life but still keep in mind that it's not what its all cracked up to be. But I guess that goes with the territory. It's a transitional process.
 
Apparently that thermo electric cooler will pull 7 amps, not 4amps as I stated in my first post. It is Not a device fit to be powered by only a battery, or 2 or 3 or even 6 batteries. Not in this lifestyle.
 
Hey Stern, very much appreciate the info. I'm taking all the information not negatively but more as a learning experience. I'm not looking to dump cash onto something with which is really inefficient and then later regret it. I'm look to be fiscally responsible now and budget myself accordingly.

Oh by the way, that Coleman cooler was gifted to me by a friend.
 
Ok, good plan, you can;t argue with gifts, but it does not mean you need to employ said free gifts for tasks for which they are not good at.

Do you have any mechanical skills? I know this appears perplexing looking at it from your stage of the process, but if You can learn some basic skills like crimping wires, perhaps some soldering and knowing to ask for help when you do not understand or are unsure of something. It will save you a lot of money, and will give you confidence that you can confront possible issues or add more aspects to the system at a later date
 
Lol, never been that great mechanically except for checking fluids, hose's, wires, differential leaks, brakes etc... That's why I would be willing to pay a member here or possibly trades? and then learn the do's and dont's....
 
Well, that is one approach. But learning the dos and don;t should be first really, especially with product selection to meet ones electrical demands, and your electrical demands are very large, with what you have listed so far.

If you really want a fridge, then get the 12v compressor models
If you really need to run that laptop 24/7 I'd say you need a minimum of 4 golf cart batteries and at least 350 watts of solar.
Any and all charging sources applied properly whenever possible is the strategy to pursue.

Getting the most from the alternator is often underlooked. It can do a good job, upto 80% charge or so. Solar is great for that last 20%. Having sa good plug in converter charger is almost a prerequisite too

It is really too easy to use too much electricity. The keys are using less electricity via more efficient appliances and using other appliances less, and maximizing the ability of the charging sources.

Because Lead acid batteries really do not like living in a partially discharged state and will live short unproductive lives when forced to live in such a manner.
 
You are way over complicating things. Forget all the technical stuff, and get yourself a 7+ day extreme ice chest and use the big ice blocks in it. Not much to go wrong with it.

Make your coffee on a propane stove.

Get a cheap netbook, mine charges from the lighter plug in about 20 minutes and is good for about 7 hours on a charge.

Just get a battery cut off that will prevent your starting battery from being discharged below the level needed to start your van and you're good to go.

If you decide you need a house battery later, it can be easily added, and charged while driving. As long as I drive maybe half an hour per week, my house battery never goes dead.
 
Hey van drifter welcome. Step back and look at the reality in buying inferior. Lets say you buy a small Dometic or engel freezer refrigerator $400 to $800 depending on the size, anytime you realize it's not the lifestyle for you you can turn around (provided you kept it somewhat well) and get 80-90% of your money back try that with some cheapo POS. Extreme ice chest would be the cheapest and then I have found them for free at hospital dumps and fish restaurants remember it's all about insulation, and quality does not go out of style.

I love my espresso maker
 
Welcome to the club! I too am curious why you need your laptop to run 24/7 :D:huh: As in every minute of every day of every year?

For a quick $20 interim solution, you might consider getting a 12 volt power adapter that plugs directly into your vehicle's 12 volt (cigarette) outlet. I have this same brand for my Sony laptop, and it works well, see Amazon link below. You can find the right cord that meets your laptop's voltage needs, just search around Amazon's website. You should probably have the engine running (idling) so it doesn't drain your primary car battery. I wouldn't advise on keeping it charged 24/7 through your car's 12 volt outlet though. As others also pointed out, if you can, get a tablet instead which can run for 8 to 10 hours on a single charge. A laptop is a power hog. I hardly use my laptops anymore and favor my various tablets instead.

http://www.amazon.com/Laptop-Charge...rger+DC+Laptop+Adapter+Power+Cord+for+Samsung
 
Hey all, thanks for the responses so far. I've realized despite how appealing something's are to use, there better off just left alone. So to answer questions, my plan to use my laptop will only be used after work and I'm guessing from there before going to sleep I should just turn off and let charge. then before I go to work the next day, just unplug from 12v outlet and leave turned off.(?).
The 12v compressor fridge is a little out of my price point at this time so I'm thinking i'll stick with non-perishables for the time being or occasionally eat out.

Aswell, Do any of you run a system of deep cycle batteries, Inverter and controller that doesn't put any drain on the starting battery and if so, do you aswell use your alternator to assist in the using of appliances? Also, how much do you figure an installation charge would be for a setup that I buy before hand excluding wire due to me being noobish on what to look for in terms of thickness and guage sizes.

RV Shop or Sound system installation shop for better pricing?
 
I was wondering why you needed to run the laptop when you were at work or asleep. for running a house batt you can not hook it up to the factory charging system but then you wouldn't get the benefit of it charging while you drive. you want to put some type of isolator so all batts charge when the engine is running but doesn't draw power form the starting batt when the vehicle is not running. there are many ways to do this. jumper cables, manual switch, solenoid, solidstate switch, etc. listen to sternwake, he should get paid for the advice he gives here for free. highdesertranger
 
[/quote]When you starting battery fails, jump it with the jumper pack, and plan to replace it with a Marine battery.
[/quote]

Stern: Can I actually replace the startung battery with a marine deepcycle? Are they the same size? Side terminal? Will I need to replace the charging system?

Running or charging my laptop is killing my starter battery. Smartphone charging seems to be okay. Perhaps I should replace the laptop with a tablet?

BTW: it's nice having an expert pon this stuff posting on the board; thanks!
 
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