Scary visit from a BLM officer in Colorado

[WanderingRose]

Maybe it’s just me, but I would answer questions asked by a ranger, and comply with producing my ID.

They are law enforcement, after all, and could cause one a lot of difficulty if uncooperative.

If a rangers conduct is an issue, I would locate their supervisor and make a complaint, but wouldn’t cross arms and become oppositional with them.

It sounds like he may have been instructed to look more closely at who is on the BLM land, and carrying those pamphlets reinforces that, to me.

This sounds like an unnerving encounter for the OP, but rather benign in the great scheme of things.

 

[mjbeam]

I agree with you that I don't feel like he should come up and question me, ask for ID, etc unless there was a reason to. He drove up, stopped for a minute, drove on, I thought he was taking note of the fact that I was there so that if I don't leave within 14 days he would come up and tell me to leave. No problem there at all. Scared the crap out of me when he circled back around and questioned me, asked me where I'm from, what I'm doing, where I live, how long I've been here, how long I plan to stay, where I plan to go next, where I work, what I do online for work, ID, license plate, etc etc. He wasn't really unfriendly but it seems like I shouldn't be coaxed to divulge my life story when I haven't done anything wrong at all, just out here minding my own business hoping to be left in peace. I don't think I'm stern enough to refuse a person of authority anything they ask me, I feel pretty much at their mercy in those situations.

Tell him you always wanted to be a Ranger. Ask him how he likes it. What's the application process? How many days of paid vacation do they get? Could you get his name so you can use him as a reference? Wave at him every time you see him. Show him pictures of your kids, grand kids and pets and tell him long stories about that time you thought you had colon cancer but it turns out it was just hemorrhoids.

 

[WanderingRose]

Googling Park ranger authority, some of these folks have arrest powers, while others do not, but they all appear to have the right to inspect your campsite and to ask questions.

Smile, be cooperative, show them you have nothing to hide and that you’ll be one who will NOT cause them any trouble today.

I have come across a lot of park rangers over the years, none of whom ever gave me any trouble.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

[font=Roboto, sans-serif]"The Federal Land Policy and Management Act specifically gives BLM law enforcement officers traditional police powers such as enforcing federal laws, carrying firearms, serving search warrants, making arrests with or without a warrant and conducting searches of places or people with or without a warrant in accordance with applicable laws and seizing evidence."[/font]
[font=Roboto, sans-serif]https://www.blm.gov/programs/public...nforcement/laws-and-regulations[/font][/SIZE]

[font=Roboto, sans-serif]I have found that in any human interactions being open and friendly is better.  I have limited time and need to pick my battles.  Insisting on my rights (unless there is a good reason to do so) usually makes them respond in kind.  And they have a much bigger toolbox to make my life miserable than I do theirs.  Even jerks respond better to good will than resistance.[/font]

[font=Roboto, sans-serif]Plus, whether you like it or not, we are representatives of this lifestyle.  If the only interactions they have with van campers is resistive and uncooperative, that is being noted too.  You may win the battle but we will loose the war.[/font]

 

[ProfessorChaos]

Would the OP let us know where in Colorado this BLM land is? I live in Colorado and am curious.

 

[Mark.]

It's by Poncha Springs. I found it on freecampsites.net. Really wonderful area, some of the best views I have ever seen.

 

[owl]

I camp in nearly every western state every summer. Two states I won't go to are California and Colorado due to experiences like the OP described. One thing people don't realize is that when a state legalizes pot the illicit growers expand their business. Legal pot is expensive and buying off the street is cheaper. All most all pot grows are on public land, BLM and NF. This puts additional strain on management and LEO in those areas. At an RTR a few years ago a fellow in a box van was visited by LEO because they saw 55 gal water barrels in his truck and thought he might be cooking meth. I have found that when interacting with enforcement explaining that I'm on vacation from my home in Az. Visiting N P and seeing the sites. That one sentence tells them all they need to know and explains who I am, what I'm doing and makes the rest of the visit go smoothly.

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

So you found the location on freecampsites.net, eh?

Law enforcement is spread pretty thin, so if I were an LEO I would go to that website and find the places that need to be checked first. Do people think that LEOs don't know what the internet is?

Conversely, if you are thinking of being "generous" to your fellow camper by blabbermouthing locations on places like freecampsites.net or your own blog, ask yourself if you are actually being helpful, or whether you are just setting up the next camper for a scary visit like Mark just had.

 

[Mark.]

I don't think it matters whether they look online for where people are camping or not, I'm within my rights to camp here so I don't think it should be an issue and I just hope the LEOs don't bother me anymore or try to intimidate me. I don't have anything to hide. I think that it's great for them to check places and make sure no one is breaking the rules, there's no reason to try and keep good spots secret at all. I wouldn't have known anything or even thought to travel full time in my van for been able to figure out solar or anything if it weren't for YouTube and websites like freecampsites.net. At least for spots on freecampsites.net I can see the reviews and get a feel for what a place will be like, and be pretty sure not to waste gas driving somewhere and not be able to camp.

Also now that I'm thinking about this I've got a unrelated question. When the rules say you can't stay in one location for more than 14-days in a 30-day period, does that mean if I stay 14-days somewhere I have to stay gone for at least 16-days or stay gone for 30-days before I'm allowed to come back?

 

[bullfrog]

It is best to check in each BLM area office you visit. If it were me I would travel for two days picking up supplies at a town and stay two weeks on a different agency's land, national forest or park, keeping my receipts as proof as well as a note on BLM dispersed camping suggested areas or pamphlets from their office with a date and time of my arrival and date of my departure. I have seen these displayed on the dash of camper's vehicles through the window so that the officers know you respect the rules enough to keep your arrivals and departure dates on display.

 

[VanDwellerMod]

When the rules say you can't stay in one location for more than 14-days in a 30-day period, does that mean if I stay 14-days somewhere I have to stay gone for at least 16-days or stay gone for 30-days before I'm allowed to come back?

I've had that rule interpreted differently by different Ranger Districts and BLM field offices.  In the Quartzsite area, the period within which someone can't return begins on the first day of their first camp.  In Pahrump, a BLM ranger told us that it begins on the day you leave your first camp.   I've worked with enough BLM Field Offices to know, and I have actually been told, that each office is free to do local interpretation of the rules.  That means, rules aren't enforced consistently across the Nation.

So, the short answer is ... you've got to check with the local Ranger District or Field Office for each place you camp.

 

[Pleasant Travels]

I am not former law enforcement, but many of my friends and family members are. Knowing so many cops this closely gives one insight into why they will sometimes act as they do. (And before you think I am merely a police apologist,...I am also a political activist who has often been heavily critical of LEOs for when they screw up,...which is very, very often.)

BLM officers and ranger types from federal to state agencies all come from increasingly varied backgrounds. It used to be most common that these people were primarily originally from rural communities and were country folk first, who then got hired on with the big agency with all the fancy tools and powers. Back in the day, they tended to have pretty darned friendly demeanor and people skills, mostly because the hard edge intimidation presence urban police used effectively was generally not required, and their roles were usually primarily not criminal policing.

But over time, more big city crime has migrated out into the sticks. And frequently the true scumbags that end up out there go there because they don't believe some park ranger dressed like a scout troop leader is going to present them anything to worry about. So as encounters with criminal screwballs has increased and escalated, wilderness LEOs have received some of the same training as cops in LA or NYC, and even from the same instructors. In fact, some cops looking for greener pastures have left the big city and hired on with BLM or other outfits, bringing some baggage with them. It does not always translate well.

I know one fellow who spent years as a Green Beret, was medically retired out due to a grenade injury, then joined LAPD. Worked there for about 6 years, then became a mounted Forest Service LEO at the Grand Canyon. Because that uniform did not communicate intimidation, he continually had people think they could take him on,...not realizing he used to kill people for a living. He very much had hoped his gig at the Grand Canyon would be a peaceful switch from the ugly grind he had experienced in LA. But as it turns out, he has gotten in more altercations and had to make more arrests per week than he had done in the big city. He very quickly had to adopt once again the gruff outer exterior and dominating and (not so subtley) threatening presence he had to display while on the job as an LAPD officer.

My point is that while you may think most people out there in the forest are like you (and most are), there is increasingly a less desireable class of folks. The attitude you sometimes experience as you did, was not formed in a vacuum.

My most recent encounter was last year up on Mingus Mountain, between Prescott and Jerome. An Arizona state forest ranger drove into camp to remind us of the campfire ban in force due to extreme fire danger at the time. Or at least that was what he claimed. While he likely was in fact tasked with gently reminding campers of that news,...I also recognized how he rather skillfully spent time checking us and our camp out for any clues of nefarious activity. We engaged with him in friendly banter, and he replied with a well-practiced good ol' boy golly gee shucks sort of small talk. But the entire time, his eyes were darting about,...taking in what he could see,...almost never making eye contact with us as we spoke. It was the telltale mark of an experienced professional. After a few minutes, he surmised we were not of any concern and said goodbye and went on about his duties. If only all encounters were so nicely conducted.

But in the roulette wheel of LEO encounters, sometimes you're gonna come up against a rude one. Fortunately, it is uncommon. Maybe he had a fight with his wife that morning before he left for work. It happens. They are people like you and me and encounter the worst of humanity on a more frequent basis than you likely imagine. It can't help but wear on anyone, and sometimes we all have a rotten day when none of us is a nice person. That's not an excuse,...just a fact. As we should do with anyone else,...try to bear their shortcomings with grace and forgiveness.

 

[Dingfelder]

Thanks highdesertranger. It does sound like from the letter that the only way they could get me is to prove I'm looking for employment in the area, erecting fences, permanent structures, staying more than 14 days, leaving things while I'm gone, etc. He made it sound like I had to be out hiking or doing recreational activities as well though, sometimes I just want to stay in and enjoy the views from my van, get online, etc. I really hope they don't start trying to crackdown even more and figure out a way to outlaw what I'm doing altogether. Maybe Colorado isn't as friendly a place to boondock as I thought.

This sounds sad, creepy, and discriminatory.  Why would trying to look for a job make you a bad guy?  I thought that was what people were supposed to do.  What, they would prefer you go on welfare, or be tempted into criminality by lack of money?

America is bizarre.  So punitive and vengeful against the unemployed.

 

[WanderingRose]

It’s about not being allowed to live on public lands, working or not working.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

Encouraging less than cooperation with a park ranger just doing his job is not in anyone’s best interest, in my opinion.

Oh, we are in 100% agreement there.

But this post, from the sound of it, was not that.

Detaining, ID'ing and harassing the camping public in an area earmarked for that purpose is NOT a ranger "doing his job."


Asking how many days you were there and when you planned on leaving=his job.
ID and all the bullshit questions=harassment...not "his job."

Savvy?

 

[cyndi]

I've deleted some posts. If this thread has run it's course, I'll be happy to close it. It's been a great discussion, for the most part.

We don't berate and degrade people on this forum. Nor to we reply or quote those posts

 

[WanderingRose]

We’ll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes detaining and harassing by a park ranger, and everyone will need to decide for themselves how to handle questioning in such a situation as the OP described.

 

[ProfessorChaos]

It's amazing that no matter how well laws and rules are written there is always something out there that blur the lines. As a bus driver I am only allowed to let ADA service dogs in my bus and their rules and guidelines to follow yet there are still arguments on what is acceptable to allow on a bus. I imagine BLM and NF land are the same. How do you define the difference between living full time, camping and parking? You can be parked or camping and still doing your job and one ranger may interpret that as living full time and another may still see it as camping.

 

[maki2]

According to those written rules you can't work on building out the interior of your van while on public land. But wasn't the big van build that Jamie did last fall done on BLM land with permission?

 

[highdesertranger]

what amazes me is all these so called confrontations. I have been "camping" on BLM and Forest Service land for 55 years and I never, let me repeat that I have never had a bad experience with a ranger or sheriff or game officer.

I have had hundreds of interactions with them and never a bad one. of course I usually don't go to popular places that are advertised on the internet except for Quartzsite in January for the RTR. most of the time the rangers are surprised there is someone camped there.

if I come to a camp site and there is trash I clean it up or if it's to much trash I won't camp there.

last year during the RTR I talked with the rangers and sheriff twice about fireworks and gun shooting. neither encounter was what I would call bad, I was never intimidated or felt like I was under any scrutiny.

let me add if I ever see anybody lighting fireworks, illegally shooting, or sending Chinese lanterns into the air, I will turn them in, without hesitation. that's what we discussed at the first encounter and probably why they came back to me a second time.

highdesertranger