Pit bullsv& Other Aggressive Breeds

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

gcal

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
913
Reaction score
1
Just saw on YouTube a situation where a woman adopted a "problem" pit bull that had already attacked another dog. She wanted it for protection, but was definitely not the kind of person who should own such a dog. No aggressive training program. No persistent socializing efforts. She often let it run unleashed in areas where that was not allowed, including areas where livestock was grazing. She could barely control the dog even on a leash, but refused to keep a muzzle on it when it was outside. As expected, it just killed another dog and bit her. It will be put down. 

A lot of campgrounds and towns are banning pitbulls. Some campgrounds are banning other breeds, as well. In a campground, you are generally right on top of other campers and their dogs, which could set off a dog or person aggressive animal. I'd be interested in knowing what experiences others have been in training, traveling and dealing with aggressive breeds. Personally, we travel with a small dog whose job is to let DH know that he needs to take the safety off the Ruger.
 
BTW, we have never, ever, in all the years we have traveled, not once found ourselves in a situation where having a large, aggressive dog to protect us would have been useful.
 
We haven't been in private parks in a while but our 11 year old Chow/Shepherd, raised for her first year of life in a private RV park is banned from several parks based on either or both of her predominant breeds. Some cities/counties do have bans on "aggressive" breeds and we just moved from one 3 years ago. I will need the ability to boondock because of my dog. Hey, if Rinnie isn't welcome, I can spend my money elsewhere. I am glad to learn there are alternatives to the discriminating private parks. Camped last year at Corp of Engineer parks with no problem.

In town, we have had a few "incidents". A stun gun, where legal, with just the static sound plus yelling "No!" as loud as possible almost always has worked with us, the exceptions were with certain members of dog aggressive breeds. Small breeds tend to like to bite the legs of my larger dogs and they are easily discouraged by the static sound. I know some people carry a walking stick which I did for some time but the first time I had to try to use it to actually get a dog away from mine, it really didn't work. The dog was much faster. The stun gun, not even getting good contact, will redirect a dog that is trying to attack or it did for us and it buys time. Also, the yelling "No!" gets human attention.
 
Dogs will be dogs but the problem most often is the owner. Large breeds are problematic in RV parks because so many people have the aggressive small breeds, the two don't mix well. At an RTR a couple of years back a woman had a Jack Russel that attacked every other dog it came near. The owner would tell you it was going to happen and made no effort to control her animal. Dog problems are most often people problems.
 
My dog and I have been in a number of dog fights- still got scars. Dog parks and me don't get along. Aggression isn't inherently a bad thing, though. My preference lies with powerful, high-drive dogs because those dogs make the best working dogs. I have no patience for inappropriate aggression and BS excuses from owners who think they know what they are doing.

I've had two instances (that I know of) where my dog kept a bad person away from us. The one time I could have been more alert to my surroundings. The other time things happen. Both circumstances I can't tell you with absolute certainty that they were up to no good because I stopped the interaction before anything was allowed to happen, but the circumstances strongly suggested that they were bad men. If you want a powerful dog, you MUST be a competent trainer and you MUST accept the consequences of your dog's behaviors no matter what. No excuses. You are responsible for your dog whether that is fair or not.

If I had a choice between a small, alert dog and a large, powerful, aggressive dog that didn't pay attention to my surroundings at all, I would choose the small dog. No contest. Being aware of your surroundings and avoiding conflict is a more successful method of staying safe compared to being able to fight your way out of conflict.

I had a dog go after me and my dog a few years ago and got it on video. Cops didn't do a thing. That dog had already attacked other dogs and its owner; am sure it went on to attack again. Sometimes we need to take more responsibility for our safety instead of shifting that burden onto law enforcement or taking away the choices and freedoms of responsible dog owners.

I let my dog run loose around other dogs. Sometimes another dog will attack her then the fight is on. I've never had any of the owners get mad at me for hurting/injuring their dog in self defense.

My dog is banned in some areas. I don't go there if possible. If I do go there and someone asks me what kind of dog she is, I tell them she is a mutt. They will sometimes say she looks like a pit bull and try to get me to admit to it, but I don't try to make their job easier by giving information favorable to them. I try to make my job (being a responsible dog owner) easier by talking as little as possible.

I sure hope the lady that had her dog put down had some criminal charges brought against her. A lot of people won't do a thing about their dog unless it hits them in the pocketbook. Would like to see more owners held responsible for the criminal, dangerous behaviors of their dogs; this would do more to curb dangerous dogs than anything else.
 
they are all dogs,they are all predatory animals,they are all made to kill,the pet thing has to be trained in to them
 
gsfish said:
... after attacking someone in the family from out of the blue.

Guy

Didn't happen out of the blue. No excuses. There was a reason those dogs bit someone. Like when you see people on TV that "snapped" and hurt people. Almost never happens. There are almost always recognizable reasons that lead up to aggressive behavior. Being a family pet is not an indicator of proper or improper behavior. I've seen a number of family pets that became aggressive but had never been beaten or neglected. Showing love at the wrong times will encourage aggressive behavior.

Those exceptionally few times that a dog does "snap" and hurt someone out of the blue is such a statistical improbability that it shouldn't be considered as a general factor.
 
Gary68 said:
they are all dogs,they are all predatory animals,they are all made to kill,the pet thing has to be trained in to them

Not quite all there is to it. Genes still matter. I can call my poodle off rabbits and treed squirrels. Once our old beagle got a prey scent on his brain, he wasn't coming back until he caught it or lost it. The poodle can be trusted off leash. The beagle never could. And yes, I am aware that a beagle is one of the dumbest animals on 4 legs. Butch did his best to prove it every single day. But blood still counts. We worked with that beast every day for 3 years until my uncle took him for his hunting pack. We could never trust that dog not to run if he was not tied up or confined.
 
My sister's four-year-old granddaughter in MT was recently mauled badly by their own pit bull mix. She was in intensive care in Seattle for weeks, had several surgeries and will need more. Pit bulls, having been bred to fight to kill, cannot be depended on to restrain that impulse in all circumstances. Many--if not most--dog lovers will disagree but they won't change my mind. I am a dog lover, too, and protect mine by carrying bear spray in case of aggressive dog attacks.
 
Canine said:
Didn't happen out of the blue. No excuses. There was a reason those dogs bit someone. Like when you see people on TV that "snapped" and hurt people. Almost never happens. There are almost always recognizable reasons that lead up to aggressive behavior. Being a family pet is not an indicator of proper or improper behavior. I've seen a number of family pets that became aggressive but had never been beaten or neglected. Showing love at the wrong times will encourage aggressive behavior.

Those exceptionally few times that a dog does "snap" and hurt someone out of the blue is such a statistical improbability that it shouldn't be considered as a general factor.

Every person who comes in contact with a dog cannot be expected to recognize canine behavior warning signs. Frankly, most people seem oblivious.
 
I agree. The " Out of the blue" thing is fishy. There has to be a trigger for any dog to attack. Either something the owner or family member has done or previous owner. A dog like a Pitt is a ticking time bomb if these issues are not addressed through training for owner and dog. I have owned one and some mixes and have been attacked and bitten by someone else's. The biggest problem I see is that a large number of people who own them don't understand the breed and are either negligent or ignorant and reckless. I don't think they are a suitable dog for a lot of people. Dogs like German Shepard's, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Mastiffs, etc., need someone who understands the breed. There are a ton of great Pitt Bulls out there. Gentle and sweet, but there are some that have been treated so badly that putting them down seems to be the only answer. It is disgraceful!! Maybe they should treat the owners that abuse the dogs and allow them to attack, be held to the same laws as if they leave a loaded gun out and somebody gets hurt or killed because of it.

I know that a lot of Parks out there prohibit the larger breeds from being let in due to a bad rap by careless owners and liabilities. It is unfortunate to be excluded due to preceived fear. I know home owners insurance rates are subject to breeds.
 
mockturtle said:
Pit bulls, having been bred to fight to kill...

Quality breeding is important. Some breeds have better lines in regards to temperament and health and all breeds have bad lines. I won't get a pit bull next time partly because there are so many poor lines. Same with Dobermans, German Shepherd Dogs, Poodles, Shelties, etc. There are good lines out there, but they are hard to find in those breeds.

My dog, as good as she is, would not be good enough to breed. Responsible breeders help keep aggressive and otherwise ill behaved dogs out of the shelters. Irresponsible breeders keep the shelters stocked and help contribute to children being mauled.

Back yard breeders suck, but if we get a dog that has a poor background, we are still responsible for that dog's behaviors.

Training is a hugely powerful tool that is vastly underrated, but it can't fix everything to perfection. Proper food, training, and breeding all work together in a synergistic manner to make awesome dogs.
 
Mismatch between owner and dog is often the problem. Also, small children should always have supervision around dogs. I have seen kids do some pretty bad things to dogs and there comes a point............ If people did more research than "oh, that dog is so cute", that would half the battle. Also, pit bulls have been promoted as "great" family pets. They have done this to a lot of breeds, the dogs are then over bred resulting in poor temperaments and health and people just have to have one and then when they cannot manage them, off to the pound. Our pound is about 90% pit bulls. Rescues are always full. I hope the "fad" of the pit bull goes away and we get only people familiar with the breed owning them.

Hey, I don't mind the idea of being banned from the RV parks, just leaves more money in my pocket and we won't have the little dogs nipping at the legs of my Rinnie.
 
I found that the majority of the RV parks that I researched for a place to summer in Florida had pound limits on dogs. Many were 20lbs and under. My dog was a 40 pounder but so docile they just overlooked him.
 
gsfish said:
... what hope is there of knowing all the triggers?


Guy

When the dog is an unknown, knowing what may set the dog off can be difficult, but that shouldn't be your primary focus if you are wanting to stay safe. A trigger could be that you are wearing a hat, riding a bike, or something else that you have no control over. The best thing to do is be confident and respectful of space. Oh, and don't freak out if you get scared; that is a good way to escalate an already bad situation. Easier said than done sometimes!!

A previous landlady of mine had an aggressive dog. It nailed me once and my dog twice on three separate occasions. It had also bit several other people. The dog constantly threatened to bite anyone. The dog would attack most any dog and put at least one dog in the doggy hospital. Lots of dead squirrels and at least one dead kitty because of that dog. When the dog was being aggressive, the owner would pick it up and pet it in an effort to calm it. Sometimes she gave it treats. She didn't spend much quality time with the dog. When she did give the dog luvins, it was usually when the dog was being highly aggressive. She was unwittingly rewarding the dog for the very behaviors she didn't want. That happens more often than you may think. This dog was a Dachshund. Imagine if that dog was a large one!

When you own a dog (as long as it is healthy), there are tons of things that can be done so no inappropriate triggers develop. A dog should be able to handle kids screaming or a person hobbling on a cane. The dog may not like it, but an expectation of having enough self control to keep their teeth off a perceived offender is a reasonable expectation.

Some people are known to be irresponsible. If they are irresponsible in some areas of their life, that irresponsibility likely carries over to the care of their dogs. While that won't identify a specific trigger, it raises a red flag. Powerful dogs that are on leash but aren't leash trained is a huge red flag. A dog that is leashed trained is much less likely to use excessive amounts of force for the smallest infractions. (Defining a properly leash trained dog is a highly debated, controversial topic like many other aspects of training.)

We should not poo-poo feelings of discomfort or fear. If you see a pit bull and feel fear, I don't see a problem with taking steps to make yourself safer. Perhaps that fear is unreasonable, but if you don't know when to be afraid or not, that shouldn't stop you from taking reasonable steps for your immediate safety. (Locking yourself in your room 24 hours a day would be unreasonable.)  Ideally, when the immediate situation is over, I would like to see people take steps to become educated so that beneficial fear is used in a more appropriate context. Living in constant fear is no fun, but that can be hard to overcome. I wish the best for those that live in fear, whatever that fear may be.

"Always ask an adult when making animal friends." That's my motto. Even then I tend not to pet dogs that are powerful. Many times I've been snapped at or growled at and the owner said, "Huh. That's the first time that's ever happened," or "Oh, when he growls and snarls, that means he loves you." Yeah, right. You can ask also ask if the dog has had extensive, comprehensive socialization during the first 3 months of their life such as Super Puppy training.  If they don't know what you are talking about, that is a red flag, too.

If I see a powerful dog that is overly excited and running loose (but not attacking), I'm going in my truck or in a store. I even look to see what cars I can jump onto to get away. Whatever I can do to avoid and hopefully not escalate a potentially violent encounter. This is an exceptionally rare occurrence no matter what the breed is, but I like being prepared. I'm a Boy Scout at heart.

That is a lot of writing. Taking care of dogs is a lot of work. Being safe in a free society takes work. What is easier is to ban [insert breed/size here]. I could have written that one previous sentence, left it at that, and not have subjected you guys to my annoying ramblings.

Some people want to limit or even ban vandwellers partly because we don't have fenced areas and some of us have dogs. Sure, that would be easy; dog attacks would certainly decline if vandwellers didn't have dogs (or small dogs of certain heritage), but I'm not sure using such broad strokes is the best way to go.
 
First off I love all critters, but I don't necessarily trust all of them. Pits and other extremely aggressive breads I don't care to be around I've just hear too many stories. I would never tell someone they shouldn't have one but I would expect them to keep it well constrained and away from my Radar. Before I got my Radar love I did a lot of research about training, we got her from a pound she's a lab mix and I knew she would be about 60-70lbs. We started training and socializing her at 8 weeks old. I currently live in an apartment complex and she roams free the dog catchers let her because everyone here loves her. They call her the welcoming committee. I had hoped she would be a little scary and bark in case of intruders after my divorce but no she just greets everyone. Lol She is mild mannered and everyone asks me what I did to make her so nice. I have to say even though we worked at training her she is just a very smart easygoing dog. We talk to her like she is human and she understands. Lol When we lived in the country there was a pack of semi wild dog who attached her regularly, once they cut her all the way down to the muscle. That was a $300 emergency vet visit.
But I understand wanting a dog for a warning detection but there's just no need for having a violent dog because all too often they can turn on you or someone else and give you more trouble than you need. I kinda think people who have pits live in fear. Often they think it makes them look tough but lol that's not they way I see it. If my mother (then 60yo) can live through being attacked by one I know if one came after me or my dog and I couldn't avoid it that dog would be in trouble as I have an extreme fight response. Gorilla warfare! Sorry but something about being a woman who's been beaten by a 6'2" 225 man brings out the fight in me. I'll calm down now. Lol
 
I think, if my dog was repeatedly attacked and injured, I would not let her run loose. And I would keep a loaded rifle by the door in case the pack came around. I might even bait them in.
 
It still depends so much on the individual dog. We had a neighbor, a renter, and they had a pit that got out and came charging but I got the dogs in. I called Animal Control and they came out. The officers were leery of the dog and along came a young man with his pit bull. He got permission to take his dog off lease to use the lease to get the other dog into the truck. I and the other officers were petting his pit as he was catching/loading the other one. The last dog I called in for was an aggressive Pug and it's negligent owner. I don't want me or my dogs to be bitten despite the size of the dog.

As far as breed, we have a yellow lab. She doesn't like water, is afraid of hearing popping bubble wrap and doesn't retrieve. I learned that those things have to be trained into the dog. We adopted her as a senior. I thought she would love bath time but instead is 80 lbs of anti-bath.

It is fairly easy to learn about body language of dogs and people and I would suggest googling it. It is very simple and I have found it to be useful.
 
gcal said:
I think, if my dog was repeatedly attacked and injured, I would not let her run loose. And I would keep a loaded rifle by the door in case the pack came around. I might even bait them in.
If I had had a rifle I would have used it but we chased them off my land with a metal baseball bat anytime they came around. They went after her a couple of times at night so we were with her after that. And we don't live there anymore so now it's not a problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top