Partially used small propane bottles - do they leak?

[QinReno]

“[font=Arial,Bold]Federal Law forbids transportation if refilled - penalty up to $500,000 fine and five [font=Arial,Bold]years’ [/font][font=Arial,Bold]imprisonment (49 U.S.C. 5124)[/font]”[/font]

https://www.forane.com/export/sites...terature/safety_alert_dot_39_cylinders.pd.pdf

Other than your van blowing up, I wonder how they can tell if the canisters have been refilled.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Don't know.  They might require the manufacturer to put a marker in the propane like they do with diesel fuel.

But they are making a very strong statement and backing it up with a ruinous fine for transporting refilled canisters to try to convince people that it is not a good idea.  I can take a hint.

 

[Weight]

I use butane in the van. The propane smell it not pleasant inside a small space. The last butane purchased was $35 for case of 28 cans. The propane is under much higher pressure. The little valve is a pressure release. If the bottle is on it's side and gets too hot in a sun drenched van, it can release liquid propane and be very dangerous. I also have had pound propane bottles leak. maybe 1 or 2% of all that I found, but how many empty were that way because they leaked? The pound bottles are much more likely to leak when refilled. But unless you are filling and transporting many, you are not likely to be arrested.

 

[John61CT]

Butane should be available for ~$1 a can in places with Asian grocery stores.

 

[MrNoodly]

Why remove?

To pack the stove away.

 

[John61CT]

Yes disconnect while not in use is safer

 

[Weight]

the case was purchased at a very large Asian market. so that should be 1.25 a can. These from Korea are 8 ounces. I had some from USA that were 8.8 oz.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

 . . . do I need to worry about storing the small canister in my van? . . .

see post #11

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/...olvedpropane-gases-alarms-false-alarms/page-2

 

[tx2sturgis]

49 CFR is an entire body of laws, rules, and regulations that apply to the transportation industry.

They do not apply to personal use.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Give been using those cylinders since the 70's. I've had a few of them leak over the years. You can usually hear hissing when you take it off the appliance. I ended up throwing out a half-filled cylinder just this summer. After I set it 20 feet from the trailer to empty out.

I've had a couple of cylinders leaking but not audibly. But I have a sensitive nose and I kept getting whiffs of propane, leading me to the culprit. But the worst instance of a leaking propance cylinder was a dangerous situation of our own doing. In the 80s, my girlfriend and I were tent camping in Florida during a storm with torrents of rain. Rather than leaving the propane lantern outside or in the van, foolishly we brought it into the sealed up from the rain tent. No hissing and no noticeable odor.

Several hours later, some raccoons woke us up and we decided to use the facilities. We were so disoriented that we couldn't open up the front door. Finally I was able to unzip the second door and then proceeded to fall out of the tent. The gas cylinder was empty. Thank you raccoons ! So now, I still use the cylinders but I give then a serious nose and ear check before they get put into a closed compartment.
Ted

 

[frater secessus]

Tank for a lantern or camp stove and not worry about going to the nearest town if I run out.

It also means you can run the larger tank completely out (for exchange purposes) and not be without propane.

also refilling them makes leaks more likely.

Yes, it could increase leaking risk at the blowoff valve if is doing the "pin-pulling" method.  Using the chilling method probably would not increase leaking risk at the main valve any more than any other connect/disconnect cycle.
Note:  I am not encouraging anyone to refill the tanks, although I do it.  I check for leaks at the blowoff with a bit of spit.  I've never seen a main valve leak but anything can fail.

 

[Beeps and eats]

It's like everything in life, just use common sense and you will be ok. If something doesn't look right then your probably right and stop there. Safety is our responsibility.
If you are comfortable with the process do it. If not buy fuel or see if someone can do it for you. Just be safe. It's no fun getting hurt over saving a few bucks.

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

 

[Weight]

The main connection valve on the one pound disposable propane bottles is not designed for multiple uses. Usually the users of these bottles screw them on and use them to empty. The more times they are screwed on and then removed, increases the odds they will leak from the main connector. Anyone that messes with the little pressure relief valve is asking for problems. Even if the web says it is ok. I'm not saying it will blow up your van, but what will you do ? if the pound bottle is flaming propane like a fury?

 

[JT646]

One way to eliminate leaks is to use these caps:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073JMT6V6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just make sure the rubber gasket is in place prior to use....they sometimes fall out.

Tip #1:  Remove gasket and add a dab of silicone sealant.  Reinstall gasket....this keeps them inside the cap.

Tip #2:  Glue (JB weld) a small magnet to the top of the cap.  This helps you from losing them--just stick them on the bottle when it's in use.

 

[frater secessus]

Neat idea. Would protect threads and stay on better than those OEM plastic caps. Thanks for the magnet tip.

 

[Jeffrey Lee]

Thanks for the link to the DOT Safety Alert.

It's obvious that this safety alert is issued "to notify the general public about the safety hazard of refilling and transporting DOT 39 (non-reusable) specification cylinders."

It seems likely that the valves used in these one-time-use cylinders are not built to the same standards as cylinders intended to be refilled multiple times, and therefore more likely to leak, perhaps catastrophically. I don't need that inside my camper, so I am no longer planning to refill those cylinders ...

 

[tx2sturgis]

'transportation in commerce' is a legal term...it means the Federal DOT (in '49 USC' rules) has authority over commercial shipments across state lines...so if a propane vendor recycled them and shipped them by the truckload, across state lines, then THAT is illegal, but traveling with them for private use is not restricted or illegal in any way (unless a local jurisdiction like a state, or county, or park, says otherwise).

Note:  I am not encouraging anyone to refill the tanks, although I do it.  

I do it also. I use common sense, been doing it for years. I use them in my camper as I see fit. 

I also travel across state lines with them.

I sure don't recommend filling them past 80% and going over high elevation passes, and I don't do that myself.

 

[Weight]

So, it seems general opinion is it is unsafe enough that the DOT has to address the issue, but it is fine if we refill the disposable bottles. The cap idea is a goody. But what about the safety valve? Duck tape duck tape duck tape duck tape.

 

[John61CT]

Only fine to refill in some contexts.

Not for use, storage or travel in a small sealed mobile living space.

 

[tx2sturgis]

On that note....

I don't continually reuse them until they get rusty, worn out, or pose a leak hazard.

I refill them maybe 2 or 3 times on average and then toss them....that seems to be about the extent of refill-ability for me...

You guys DO know (I'm assuming) that things like aerosol cans of WD-40 and aerosol hair spray are DOT regulated hazardous materials IF shipped or 'transported' across state lines, in commerce*....But as a consumer, carrying a few of those cans in your rig, across state lines, there is NO restriction.

*'in commerce' means commercial shipment by road, rail, or air. This includes shipment by UPS or FedEx, as well as shipment by large truck or on rail cars, for example.

Sometimes certain products are prohibited (or have restricted quantities) from shipment by air....like lithium batteries, even the little button cells.

So yeah, the DOT gets involved in a lot of this stuff....but it doesn't mean you have to give up using the products for personal use, with common sense of course. 

Really, I'm not trying to be the 'know it all'....I sure as hell don't, but I received hazardous materials training every year for about 35 years, had hazmat certification on my CDL, (I dropped the endorsement last year when I retired) and I hauled hazmat loads, and had to pass the TSA background checks to have that hazmat endorsement.

I learned a thing or two. Just sayin.