Park Rangers

[Tim317]

I'm planning on a boondocking in National Forests / BLM land soon. I'm wondering what experiences folks have had with park rangers. I've done my homework on getting maps that show allowable park roads for travel, stay times, etc. But I'm wondering how people feel they have been treated by park rangers in general? Like many of you, I suppose; I'm not a person who thinks the federal government is all about making my life wonderful. But that said, I'm hoping park rangers are somewhat a different breed from many government officials. If I'm obeying park rules, can I expect to be left alone pretty much? How have people dealt with testy park rangers if you have encountered any? Thanks for your help.

 

[dragonflyinthesky]

One jerk and many many wonderful park rangers over the years.

 

[Tim317]

That's good to hear dragon. Just by the law of averages, if you spend enough time in parks, you are bound to come across a jerk somewhere. It sounds like most are stand up guys (and girls) though. I hope that's what I experience.

 

[AltTransBikes]

Far more good than bad. Since you've already touched upon salient points, done your homework, know enough to keep an eye toward guidelines and not look for problems, I doubt you'll have much trouble at all.

When I have lived and traveled in the big western states, outside the urban areas and cities, I've found law enforcement in general to be more an aid than a problem. For example, when I lived in the back country of Colorado, it being not a great place to experience a breakdown, especially in winter, it was often with a sigh of relief to spot a CSP patrol. They have so much ground to cover and deal often with life and death situations that I felt they not much into looking to be jerks.

 

[rvwandering]

We've had very few encounters but they have all been good. There just aren't that many rangers out in the back country.

 

[Tim317]

Thanks so much for the responses. One of the reasons I'm choosing this lifestyle at this time is that I've dealt with so many total jerks (to use a polite word) in positions of authority during my life. Since park rangers will be the likely people in authority I might encounter, it's a relief to know folks have had almost all positive dealings with them.

 

[BLACKSHEEP54]

I have had many great experiences with rangers.....this past year, in Wyoming, I had one come by the 1st morning and I offered him fresh coffee and he came by every morning for 3 weeks, cup in hand!! Most of these guys have SO MUCH area to cover, that when they do drive by as long as your site/rig is in order they will just keep on rolling. BLM rangers in Yuma area just 2 months ago did a THOROUGH look over of my conversion cargo trailer, looking underneath at my BW holding tank, making sure it was actually connected, which it isn't....got lucky though---the ranger saw my Illinois plates, and after a little talk he told me his son was going to college at SIU.......told me to have a nice day and left......never saw him again in 5 weeks!

 

[akrvbob]

I have to totally agree, nearly all of my experiences with BLM or NFS Rangers has been polite and respectful. They're good people doing a hard job.

There is a Ranger around Quartzsite who has a reputation for being overly firm and aggressive. But he is also very overworked so it is understandable.

Some of the Forests are adapting a very strict (and bizarre) policy about how they interpret "Residential use of the Forest" In those Forests the managers are telling the Rangers to trick people into admitting they are full-timers so they can be given a ticket. Some of them are doing it and people are being ticketed. But only a very few Forests are doing it. I know Coconino, Kaibab and Prescott NF in Ariona are doing it. More info here:
http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/keep-it-simple-sunday-staying-legal-as-a-boondocker/

There were 325 comments on that blog post so I don't want to get into it again here. I said everything I want to say about it there so take the time and read through the comments. But, I do want you all to be aware of it.

Forewarned is forearmed.
Bob

 

[owl]

No, there is no law in the U.S. that says you must have an address. When you posted last summer about being threatened by the F.S. employee , I went to Tom Quinn ,The Ranger for the Tahoe National Forest. He said as long as you adhere to the F.S. regs you are good to go and an address is not required. The people you come in contact with in the N.F. are not rangers they are glorified security guards. If this happens to you ask to speak to a supervisor. Be polite and remember you are a citizen not a criminal. Because a person is in uniform does not mean you have to get on your knees. Ask them to show you in writing what law you are breaking. And whatever you do, don't run out and buy property so you won't get arrested right Bob?

---

By the way, the law says you can't live in a N.F. it says nothing about an address. If you are obeying the laws as to length of stay etc. you are ok. Any time you are dealing with a government employee don't run scared, ask to see a supervisor or take the ticket and research later.

 

[owl]

Because you may live in a van does not in any way diminsh you as a citizen or a person. Don't let anyone tell you your rights are different from anyone else. Don't allow youself to be subjugated by some in this lifestyle who aren't willing to stand up for themselves. Don't resort to violence, rather be aware that you are as important as anyone else in this society. Respect yourself and expect it from others. Stand for your rights as an american citizen. When someone tells you your rights are less than others in this country, realize they do not know what they are talking about. On any subject.

 

[BLACKSHEEP54]

Very well said Owl!!! Lots of people can look down their noses at us, but I suspect many of them are just jealous of our lifestyle that they don't have and cannot figure out how to get!!

 

[owl]

You can be a rabbit or you can be a man/woman the choice is yours. This country hangs in the balance.

---

Repeat after me-- I Want a Lawyer.

 

[Tim317]

Thanks Bob and everyone. There is one other specific item related to park rangers I've been wondering about. If I'm camping in a national forest away from established campgrounds and not near anyone (dispersed camping); can I expect to be hassled if my dog is off-leash? I understand having a dog on a leash if other people are nearby and they might not like dogs. But if nobody is within a couple of miles and I'm just chilling by a campfire, I see no reason to have my dog tied up.

 

[papas34]

My experience with the Rangers seems to indicate the rules are there for the protection of everyone, if you are in an area with nobody around and a Ranger asks you to tie up your dog it most likely would just be a warning. If you start acting like a jerk, the Ranger most likely will treat you like a jerk and give a ticket and start looking for other things to ticket you for as well.
Often rules are used to get rid of unwelcome guests, play nice, keep a clean camp, be respectful and enjoy life.

 

[Tim317]

Thanks Papa. I'm a very non-confrontational person. That's why it's important to me to be able to live (within park rules) in national forests and not be hassled by rangers. It sounds like that will be the case. If a ranger asks me to do something like tie up my dog, I won't argue with him/her. I just don't wanted to be booted for a single transgression.

 

[akblack10]

No, there is no law in the U.S. that says you must have an address. When you posted last summer about being threatened by the F.S. employee , I went to Tom Quinn ,The Ranger for the Tahoe National Forest. He said as long as you adhere to the F.S. regs you are good to go and an address is not required. The people you come in contact with in the N.F. are not rangers they are glorified security guards. If this happens to you ask to speak to a supervisor. Be polite and remember you are a citizen not a criminal. Because a person is in uniform does not mean you have to get on your knees. Ask them to show you in writing what law you are breaking. And whatever you do, don't run out and buy property so you won't get arrested right Bob?

---

By the way, the law says you can't live in a N.F. it says nothing about an address. If you are obeying the laws as to length of stay etc. you are ok. Any time you are dealing with a government employee don't run scared, ask to see a supervisor or take the ticket and research later.

---

Well said!

 

[akrvbob]

The problem is you guys are using logic and this is totally illogical.

While you may all be right, he will still give you a ticket. Each National Forest gets to interpret and enforce the rules just as they want to, and this is the way these NFs are interpreting this law. Since then I've heard from many people who checked in their Forest and the Rangers all said that was the craziest thing they ever heard. And they are right, but I guarantee you it is 100% true and people are being ticketed for it in the Kabib, Coconino, and Prescott NF.

It will continue until somebody finally takes it to court and fights it. The danger is it will spread to other Forests.

If you are in a remote area, dogs being leashed won't be an issue.
Bob

 

[akrvbob]

owl wrote:
By the way, the law says you can't live in a N.F. it says nothing about an address. If you are obeying the laws as to length of stay etc. you are ok.

Owl, you are wrong. You really should do your homework before you say things that can get people in trouble. I am well aware it is not the policy of all NFs and just of these very few. We can go down a list of all the NFs that do not interpret the law this way or enforce it, that doesn't change even a little bit the fact it is true in those few Forests because it absolutely is.

Owl wrote:
The people you come in contact with in the N.F. are not rangers they are glorified security guards.
This was an FS LEO, Law Enforcement Officer. He had a bulletproof vest, Glock and handcuffs on his hip and a 12 gauge in the truck. Like all Forest Service LEOs he was trained at Quanitco with the FBI agents. There is no issue with being arrested, I don't where you got that from. They are issuing $250 tickets for Residential use of the Forest. He did not cite me, I think he knew how ridiculous it was, but I know for a fact they are issuing tickets for it in those Forests.

I know exactly what the law says and you are right it has nothing to do with Fulltimers or address. But each Head Ranger in each Forest gets to interpret the laws for himself and this is how they are interpreting it in these.

My advice to everyone is be prepared and have a story ready. Do NOT admit to being a fulltimer. As of now only 3-4 Forests are doing this, but the danger is it will spread.
Bob

 

[Tim317]

If you are in a remote area, dogs being leashed won't be an issue.
Bob

Thanks! I'm so glad I came to this forum. I'm learning a lot here, as I did from Bob's book.

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

They can ticket you but it wont hold up, no real way to prove you are residing in the forest as opposed to camping. Remember they have to prove you are residing there, you do not have to prove you reside elsewhere.