On Residency/Address: Licenses, Weapons, Insurance etc

[Van-Tramp]

I do agree with you John to some extent, but I think you are putting too high an importance on a CCW. No matter if it is valid or not, a clean self-defense-shoot is a clean shelf-defense-shoot. If it is not so clean, the CCW doesnt make it any cleaner. The ONLY thing a CCW does is allow you to carry your weapon *concealed*.

Again, I've cleared leather 3 times and have not been asked for my CCW by the arriving officers in the two occasions in which they were called. Even the LEO's know that a CCW is not relevant in a self-defense-shoot (or in my case; three no-shoots) it is only relevant if I were being questioned for carrying a concealed weapon.

But, onto your primary point of having all your I's dotted and T's crossed (and addresses matching), I really cant argue with that. Yes, it *may every so slightly* sway an already biased officer (it also may not) if he happens to be the one writing the report, but surely to a much lesser extent than the clothes you wear, your beard length, and/or your hair style.

 

[Van-Tramp]

Hey John,

You got me thinking of a different scenario; being pulled over on a routine traffic stop. It is the only time I see that the auto-registration and driver's license mismatch are going to be an issue.

The problem that may arise is that depending on the state I am in I may or may not have to inform the officer that I am carrying. Also depending on the state I may or may not be able to carry concealed in my vehicle without a CCW. So, if all the moons align and the officer wants too, he can decide that my "residence" is in SD and my Colorado CCW is no longer valid which may drastically change my the legality of in-car-carry. I may then then be in violation of a state law. It kept me up at night...

I think I will go ahead and make that trip to SD sooner rather than later, thanks

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I do agree with you John to some extent, but I think you are putting too high an importance on a CCW. No matter if it is valid or not, a clean self-defense-shoot is a clean shelf-defense-shoot. If it is not so clean, the CCW doesnt make it any cleaner. The ONLY thing a CCW does is allow you to carry your weapon *concealed*.

Again, I've cleared leather 3 times and have not been asked for my CCW by the arriving officers in the two occasions in which they were called. Even the LEO's know that a CCW is not relevant in a self-defense-shoot (or in my case; three no-shoots) it is only relevant if I were being questioned for carrying a concealed weapon.

I may be overly sensitive because of where I live. In most of this still semi-free country, you don't need a permit to own a handgun, you only need it to carry in public.

Here in the People's Democratic Republic of New York, you can't even own the handgun if you don't have a permit. And if you are involved in a shooting, the cops will demand to see your permit. There's a mandatory 1 year prison term for having a handgun without a valid permit. Under the law, the judges have NO discretion in this matter.

If I bump in to you when I hit the road, I'll buy you a beer. In the mean time, stay safe.

Regards
John

---

PS - Grinning Panther, sorry about hijacking your thread.

 

[Van-Tramp]

Oh, didn't realize you were behind enemy lines there John. Tough luck buddy... I feel for you living in NY. Yes, now I would completely agree with what you are saying; A NY permit (FOID) should have your accurate information as it is quite different than a conceal-carry-permit in the rest of the country.

In 30 states around this country you can open-carry without a permit at all, and TX should be adding itself to that list shortly.

 

[GrinningPanther]

Van-Tramp, I may be forgetting something you mentioned in one of your comments...but depending on where you're more likely to be spending time...have you considered getting a concealed carry license from AZ (they issue those to non-residents, too)? The AZ license, as you know, is honored by reciprocity in many other states. And since it would have been overtly issued to a non-resident, it would not be a problem if your (AZ) CCW license was not from the state of your residence/domicile.

I just spoke to mail forwarders in SD this morning, and they confirmed that to get a SD CCW one has to show receipts (hotel, apt., campground, etc.) for having lived in SD for at least 30 days. Given that AZ issues them to non-residents, I don't imagine one has to show similar receipts.

Again, though, I guess the major consideration is which one is more out of the way of your travels.

Optimistic/John: High quality forum contributors like you and Van-Tramp can hijack my threads any time.

Rock on,
GP

 

[psytechguy]

Something to check regarding reciprocity between states:

Some states will not honor non-resident licenses from other states, yet will honor resident licenses from those states. I believe Colorado is one of them.

It gets complicated! There's several sites online that keep fairly up-to-date info on who reciprocates who.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Van-Tramp, I may be forgetting something you mentioned in one of your comments...but depending on where you're more likely to be spending time...have you considered getting a concealed carry license from AZ (they issue those to non-residents, too)? The AZ license, as you know, is honored by reciprocity in many other states. And since it would have been overtly issued to a non-resident, it would not be a problem if your (AZ) CCW license was not from the state of your residence/domicile.

I just spoke to mail forwarders in SD this morning, and they confirmed that to get a SD CCW one has to show receipts (hotel, apt., campground, etc.) for having lived in SD for at least 30 days. Given that AZ issues them to non-residents, I don't imagine one has to show similar receipts.

Again, though, I guess the major consideration is which one is more out of the way of your travels.

Optimistic/John: High quality forum contributors like you and Van-Tramp can hijack my threads any time.

Rock on,
GP

GP, the thing you need to keep in mind is that just about every state I know that will issue a non-resident permit REQUIRES you to have a CCW from your home state first.

If V-T is changing his home state to SD, he will most likely NEED the SD CCW in order to get the AZ non-res CCW.

Regards
John

 

[offroad]

Just tons of good notes here.

 

[GrinningPanther]

Optimistic/John, clarity and truth is what we're all after, so I appreciate you trying to clarify the AZ concealed weapon permit issue.

From what I've read in multiple sources, however, including official State of Arizona websites and general gun rights websites, Arizona will indeed issue permits to non-residents, irrespective of whether they have a permit from their original state or any other state.

It may be you are thinking about "reciprocity," in which one state honors the permit/license of another state. But issuing a permit to a non-resident is something different. It need not depend on the non-resident having any other or previous gun permit/license.

Here's a link to the AZ official state website on gun permits. http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concealed_Weapons/Questions/#26 It's their "Questions and Answers" page, and there it states:

"Can non-residents be issued an Arizona permit?
Yes. You must be a resident of Arizona or a U.S. citizen. "

No mention is made in any of their literature of the applicant requiring a different or previous permit/license from another state.

Also, below is an extensive quote from the website www.Handgunlaw.us Check their specific page on non-resident permits... here: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/NonResidentPermits.pdf

The first state listed is Arizona. Detailed requirements and restrictions are listed. No mention is made of any requirement for a different or previous license.

Check it out, and see if you agree with my conclusions.

Regards,
GP

 

[offroad]

So in Arizona I can apply via mail or online? Before I arrive in state ?

 

[wayne49]

Good information. Thank.

 

[Lucky mike]

No reciprocity in the Commie land of Massachusetts either!!!....in fact just a small 22 blank shell or pellet/BB in your possession will buy you 1 Year if you do not have a fire-arms permit for that state......and as said above in past posts.....The judge may not alter ...the sentence is mandatory!!!.......(they should have open season on politicians!!)

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

GP, it appears that you are correct about AZ.

I feel safe in saying that's fairly unusual.

I have CT, NH, PA, and UT non-res CCW, and all of them required proof of my NY permit. I've also seen the FL paperwork, and they require it also.

As for V-T, I think his family is still in CO, and CO doesn't recognize non-res CCW.

Regards
John

 

[GrinningPanther]

Optimistic/John, interesting stuff. I had not been aware of those differences in how states treated non-resident concealed carry permits. I had only looked into Arizona's rules because it had been recommended to me at some point.

Following up on your point about many other states requiring, for non-residents, proof of permit from their own state of residence... After doing some further research, I would only add that it seems that this in some cases is only required if the state of residence honors the non-resident permit-granting state's permit.

Example: Utah seems to only require a non-resident to show a permit from his state of residence if that state honors (or has reciprocity with) Utah's permit. But if the non-resident is from a state that does not honor Utah's permit, then apparently he does not need to show a previous permit when applying for Utah's permit.

The language from Utah's law is as follows: (taken from this State of Utah web page: http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/CFnewapp.html )

"Non-resident proof of permit. If you reside in a state that recognizes the validity of the Utah CFP or has reciprocity with Utah, you must obtain a CFP or CCW from your home state and submit a copy of it with your application for a Utah permit. For a list of reciprocal states click here. Residency will be determined by your state-issued identification. If your state does not recognize the Utah permit this does not apply."

And this, from the handgunlaw.us web page on Utah: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/utah.pdf

"Note:
If you are a resident of a state that has reciprocity or honors a Utah Permit/License you must have a
permit from your state of residence to apply after 5/10/11 and renew after 1/1/12. If you are from a state that
doesn’t issue permit/licenses to carry or does not honor a Utah Permit/License you can apply or renew as in
the past."

Of course, everybody should do their own research. And this stuff obviously has a lot of ins-and-outs.

Regards,
GP

 

[akrvbob]

I have a non-resident Arizona CCW and I do not have one from any other state. In AZ you do NOT need one from your home state first. As was pointed out, several states will NOT honor my CCW because I am a non-resident, but they would if I were a resident.

Utah has already passed a law stating that non-residents may not renew their UTah CCW permits. I was going to get one from both as it is easy to do. My instructor said it would be a waste of my time and money because it could not be renewed.
Bob

 

[offroad]

But can you still have a shotgun regardless of CCW? And have that while crossing state lines?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

But can you still have a shotgun regardless of CCW? And have that while crossing state lines?

You don't need a ccw for long guns.

Shotguns are pretty much legal everywhere - except that in a few states, the semiauto ones can be considered "assault weapons" if they have the extended magazine tube or other "tactical" features, like a pistol grip stock.

OTOH, if you have a ccw, it's legal for your handgun to be loaded in your vehicle.

While it's legal to TRANSPORT long guns in a vehicle, in many (most?) places, it's illegal for them to be LOADED while in the vehicle.

This comes from the hunting laws. They don't want idiots to drive around and stop and shoot deer from the road, when they see one.

Regards
John

 

[offroad]

Except canada and Mexico right? You can not cross borders with a long gun? Or can you if you declare it?

 

[Van-Tramp]

I have a nice long thread about traveling with a firearm... https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Traveling-with-firearms-for-security ... feel free to read up on it.

You will have some very bad days if you crossed into Mexico with even a single bullet in your possession.

Canada has very strict border crossing gun laws. You can transport long guns, with declaration, but you are unable to go into any national parks if you have any. Handguns are not allowed in Canada, with one exception; if you are traveling THROUGH Canada you can get a permit to bring it with you. I do not know the specifics on the permit, but I doubt it is easy to obtain. One thing I do know is that it applies ONLY to handguns with 4 inch or larger barrels. Anything smaller and they will not allow it.

Regarding handguns in cars; in many states it is perfectly legal to have a loaded handgun in your car even without a CCW. Each state differs, so you need to look it up first.

Shotguns and other long guns are no where near as regulated as handguns. A standard pump-action shotgun should be legal just about anywhere (unloaded). In most states you can transport it "loaded" but not "chambered". Beside my two handguns (always loaded and chambered) I also carry my trusty 12 gauge which has 5 buckshot loaded. The chamber is empty. Eve if it were legal to have it chambered I'd keep this one empty, just so I can rack one in for the bad guy. If that doesnt stop him, the buck shot will.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Except canada and Mexico right? You can not cross borders with a long gun? Or can you if you declare it?

Lot's of Americans hunt in Canada. It's supposedly not hard to bring a long gun into Canada. There's a form to fill out, and a modest fee. I've heard that it's even possible to bring in long guns even if you're not hunting. You mark "protection from wild animals" as your reason on the temporary import form.

That later may be easier in the western provinces - Alberta, Saskatchitan, etc - than in the east.

I've heard that Canada does not permit hunting with semi-auto rifles, thus it may not be possible to bring one of those across the border. I don't know about semi-auto shotguns.

Mexico - I've heard of people being thrown in Mexican prisons just for having a few cartridges in their vehicle.

I've heard occasionally of people hunting in Mexico. Apparently it can be done, if you actually have a hunt booked with a licensed guide. You fly in, have your hunt, and fly out. I don't think you're allowed to wander around Mexico playing tourist with a hunting rifle in your vehicle.

Anyway, this is stuff I've heard or read, I haven't actually tried it myself, and can't swear to any of it.

Regards
John