On Residency/Address: Licenses, Weapons, Insurance etc

[GrinningPanther]

Hello friends,

Here’s my situation: I’m preparing to “launch,” to leave my apartment behind and hit the road in the next month or so. I plan to travel for a year, or so...but then I'm not sure what I'll do. I do know that I'm unlikely to want to return to my current state.

The main thing delaying my departure is the question of what to do about official address and residency.

As much as I wish it were otherwise, if we want to avoid complications, we all need an address. The government, and insurance companies, and perhaps banks, etc., insist on it.

My specific considerations are:

1. Driver’s License
2. Auto Insurance
3. Concealed Weapons/Carry License
4. Health Insurance
5. Banking/Credit Cards


All of these require a “real” address, of one kind or another.

I'm not so much worried about getting mail, as I am about getting a legal address for purposes of licenses and insurances.

I currently live in Oklahoma. I see my options for an address, as follows:

a) Friend/relative/neighbor
b) Mail forwarder who specializes in RVers
c) UPS Store.

My family is not in my current state (or in states I'd want to officially be domiciled in, because of their weapons laws and tax structures), and I’d rather not impose on friends or neighbors—nor do I have the kind of friend or neighbor locally who seems to be right for the “job.”

Because Oklahoma is not an RVers’ or retirees’ destination state, there do not seem to be specialized mail forwarders for RVers here…who offer a street address. At least my Internet searches have not yet found them.

The simplest thing to do seems to be to use a UPS Store in my current state, and maintain residency in my current state, even as I travel around other parts of the country. This would allow me to keep my driver’s license, my concealed weapons’ license, auto and health insurance. But I don’t know if a PMB (private mail box) at a UPS store will be acceptable for either my driver’s license or my concealed carry license or auto insurance or health insurance.

Here are some more details on the issue:

Concealed Carry License: My state’s laws explicitly state that only a resident of the state can have the license. In other words, by my reading of the law, if I changed my official address to another state, my current state’s concealed carry license becomes void. And, if the worst happens and I must use my gun to defend myself, the investigation will show that my license is no longer valid…and it will be a felony. Or even if a LEO in another state stops me and finds a gun on me, and chooses to verify that my concealed carry license is valid…I could get into trouble in that scenario, too.

But if I use a local UPS Store, will that be a legitimate legal address for the purposes of the concealed carry license? Bear in mind that one of the laws relating to the license is that any change of address must be reported to the OSBI (OK State Bureau of Investigation) within X number of days.

Driver’s license. My state requires that the updated address be filed with the DMV within 10 days of changing address. But if the new address is out of state, will they allow me to keep Oklahoma’s license? And if I’m involved in an accident, will there be problems because at that time I will not, in fact, be living at the address printed on the license? Or if I use a UPS Store in my current state, will that be accepted as a legal address?

Auto Insurance… If I have an accident or claim, will it be a problem that I don’t actually live at the address on the policy? And will they accept a PMB (private mail box) at a UPS Store if I took that approach?

Health Insurance… Will I need new health insurance coverage if I change my address to a new state? Probably. I have private insurance—not funded or managed by the government, but the coverage and rates are based on the state I was in when I signed up. But, again, if I remained with official residency in my current state, will the health insurance company accept a PMB (private mail box) at a UPS Store if I took that approach?

A general point: I’m reluctant to directly ask these questions to state agencies and insurance companies, because in some cases they won’t talk to you before knowing your identity/policy number—and this would just be asking for unwanted scrutiny—and in other cases I can’t be sure the answers I’d get from a customer service rep are accurate…and won’t be disavowed and denied later and cause me trouble. (I’ve heard contradictory things, and things that turned out to be wrong, from customer service and technical support in every field.)

Does anybody have experience or knowledge on these issues? Any light you can shed would be appreciated.

Thanks,
GP

 

[Reducto]

I've been using my mailbox (not UPS, a local shipping store) as the address for everything for over a year without trouble. The last time I filed a claim with a car insurance company they didn't question in the slightest why I was 300 miles from home when it happened or why I got my estimate done there. They just had me bring in the car and cut a check on the spot.

Health insurance is generally tied to the state and they want you to have a local GP so that can be a hassle if you need to go in regularly. That's a good reason to have a "home" address near where you spend most of your time.

No idea about the gun stuff - you might want to take that to a gun-specific thread of which there are several here.

For location-specific questions I'd suggest looking for homeless advocacy groups and shelters. They should have experience dealing with this stuff.
You won't be able to keep your OK license if you move to another state. In other states my experience is they scrutinize your home address when you first get the license but don't really care after that as long as you pay your registration/renewal fees.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I'm in the same situation you are. If I move to another state, my current CCW is automatically null and void. And all of my non-resident permits - which were granted in part based on the fact that I HAD a CCW in my home state may well become legally questionable.

First question is - where do you plan to go? Do they recognize an OK CCW as valid in their states?

Second question - Do you plan to spend any time in OK? If you gave up your OK residence and became a resident of SD or TX, say, and got a CCW from your new home state, would OK recognize it as valid when you are there?

Third question - Do you already have any non-resident CCWs? How much of a hassle would it be to amend them, or get new ones, if you do change states?

I live in upstate NY, btw, and in addition to my home CCW, I have non-resident permits from CT, NH, PA, and UT and I'm good to carry in about 30 states. When I hit the road in a year, I'll need to pick up a few more - FL, NV, and TX.

www.handgunlaw.us is where you need to go for your research.

It can be tricky, btw. For instance, TX recognizes my NY CCW, so I don't need to get a TX non-resident CCW to carry there. On the other hand, NM won't recognize my NY CCW, nor my UT one, but would recognize a TX non-resident CCW, so I need to get the TX one in order to carry in NM.

Regards
John

---

BTW, I hear good things about the Escapees Club in TX. Supposedly, their mail service gives you a totally valid address for getting a TX Drivers License and Registration and CCW.

As for you health insurance, I don't see how you're going to get valid info from anyone other than your current company. That may mean telling them that you are THINKING of moving to ( fill in blank) and asking how that will affect your policy.

Regards
John

 

[GrinningPanther]

Reducto: Thanks for your response. It's good to know that you've been successfully using a private mail service as your address.

Optimistic: Thanks for your response, and for your questions. Yes, it looks like we share some of the same concerns. I appreciate the link to the Handgunlaw.us site. Their interactive map is very convenient. I noticed that Texas's CCW is not honored in NV, while New Mexico's is. That might be important to me. (And, yes, Oklahoma would honor the CCWs of both TX and NM...and I think every other state that grants one.)

And here's another list some might find helpful (I did) in moving towards a decision on which state to choose. It specifies which states require vehicle inspections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States

If I'm traveling out of state, and even if I'm not, I don't want to feel beholden to (return and) submit to bureaucrats every year to earn the right to continue driving my vehicle. (Texas, by the way, requires annual inspections on vehicles newer than 25 years old. My vehicle is 24 years old, so I'm real close on that.)

NM is looking good to me for now, even though they have a state income tax. For the near term I don't expect to be earning a bunch of money, so income tax doesn't scare me.

Does anybody know of other reasons I should NOT domicile in New Mexico?

Thanks again,
GP

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Do a little more research on TX. The subject of annual motor vehicle inspections come up all the time on the mainstream RV forums.

What I read in those forums is that you can be gone from TX for years without getting the inspection. When/if you finally go back to TX, you have three days to get it reinspected.

The claim, in those other forums, is that other states don't enforce your home state's inspections and won't hassle you for not being inspected.

Regards
John

 

[WheelEstate USA]

We stuck with Az for cost of tags ($27 yr), cheap insurance, and open carry for weapons...along with lots of other reasons.
We use a mail forwarding service based in a small town south of Tucson.
Tucson and Phoenix have smog inspections, but other parts of the state don't.

I've heard Nv is a good one. I know several who base out of Pahrump since there's plenty of free camping and folks are RV/Van friendly.
I think Bob Wells uses a service there as his base address.

SD is very welcoming for travelers. I believe Van Tramp just registered up there recently....might check his blog for that info.

I can't speak on gun laws in those stated tho.

 

[GrinningPanther]

Optimistic/John: Thanks for the follow-up info on TX. I am, indeed, taking another look at TX, because I realize that NM may not accept private mail boxes as valid addresses for official document purposes. But TX, especially if I were to use the Escapees services to keep it simple, seems to be fine with it...though I need to research that further.) Now that you mention that (others in forums report) the annual vehicle inspections are only required when in TX, that does change the equation for me, too.

Jay: Thanks for sharing your experience with AZ, and for the reminders about NV and SD, too.
So how has AZ been working out for you? What address is on your driver's license? The address given to you by the mail forwarder? And do you use this address for your auto insurance, and other official purposes (like banking, etc.) too?

Thanks to you both,
GP

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

We stuck with Az for cost of tags ($27 yr), cheap insurance, and open carry for weapons...along with lots of other reason

I can't speak on gun laws in those stated tho.

Jay,

Even though you don't NEED a permit to carry in AZ, AZ still issues them to people who want them.

An AZ permit will let you carry in NM, CO, UT, and lots of other states.

Also, with an AZ permit, you can apply for a non-resident permit from NV, so you'd be legal to carry there.

Regards
John

 

[WheelEstate USA]

John...True. I've been carrying Az paper for years and I'm good in Nv and Or also, along with those who reciprocate.

GP...My DL has the address where I last lived, as does my insurance. If there is any question the property owner will simply say I'm gone for the season and I'll get a note in the mail (hasn't happened).
My insurance has the address where I receive mail, as does my bank, Paypal, social security, etc.
Since there are no vehicle inspections, I can get my tags by mail.
I have mail sent once every month or two since everything is paperless billing. I pay my box "rent" by phone every 6 months.
Easy Peezy

 

[akrvbob]

When I moved out of my house and into my van in Alaska I just kept using that exact same as a residence address and got a UPS Store box for mail. Never once had an issue with it in 6 years. All they want is a legal residential address, all your mail will go to the mailing address.

When I retired and left Alaska I became a NV resident and have a mail forwarder there. But there car insurance is high so I have my cars plated in AZ! I also have an AZ CCW. You don't have to be a resident of AZ to have your cars plated there or have their CCW.

I love AZ!! And if it weren't for taxes, I would become an AZ resident, but they have a tax so I stick with NV as my residency.

 

[GrinningPanther]

Bob, thanks for telling me about how you did things re/ your addresses.

A few follow-up questions for you:

1. So when you initially kept your 'old' residential address, how did you keep from complications developing? Did you notify your state's motor vehicle department (or whatever they call the department that oversees driver's licenses) of a change only in mailing address? And you did not notify them of a change in residential address?

Also, how did you handle the address issue with banks, health insurance, etc.?

2. When you plated your car in AZ, did you get an AZ driver's license? Or can you get plates in AZ while still having a different state's license? And if you got an AZ driver's license, didn't you have to surrender your Alaska driver's license? And, if so, did this create any trouble for you?

3. Have you been satisfied with your NV mail forwarder? And other than car insurance, do you have advice as to whether it's a good idea to domicile in and change one's official address to Nevada?

For the purposes of my case, please bear in mind that all I can see into my future is for the next year or so...planning to be on sabbatical in the southwest. I don't have the money to do that much beyond a year, before I come up with a plan for working again...which may or may not involve settling down into stationary living again.

So if there's a simple way that I don't have to change my state of domicile right away, that would probably be best for me, and allow me to hit the road more quickly. My concerns have been that my state explicitly states that for drivers' licenses a change of mailing address as well as change of residential address must be given within 10 days of moving. (Of course, though, how would they know if a person only notified them of a change in mailing address, and had all their mail forwarded?)

So do you think a person in my situation can just get a UPS Store mail forwarding for a while...and just notify the state of a change in mailing address? And as to my CCW license, the same thing? (By the way, I'm not aware of an RV-oriented mail forwarding service in Oklahoma, that's why I mention the UPS Store.)

(Also, because I will be traveling, and not in fact getting a residential address in any other state, I think I'd be being true to the spirit of the law in still claiming my current state and last address as my residence and domicile. But when a bureaucracy insists on a residential address when one doesn't currently exist for a particular person, what can a citizen do?)

Getting clarity on this issue will be a big help to me. Because other than painfully tearing myself away from my stuff, the only thing delaying my launch is this administrative business of addresses.

Thanks,
GP

 

[Van-Tramp]

I have just gone through this myself, all with your same concerns. I went ahead got my vehicles registered in South Dakota (no emissions testing, and all registration via Internet or Mail)...

... but I KEPT my Colorado Driver's License and the address listed on it (My Ex-house). This way I keep my CCW for the remainder of it's term (2 more years) at which time I will go ahead and get my SD license, stay 30-days in a SD RV park, and get my SD CCW (at a $140 savings I might add).

If I did not have the CO address to fall back on, then I'd just head over to SD, get my license, and stay the month to meet the requirements of the CCW.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I have just gone through this myself, all with your same concerns. I went ahead got my vehicles registered in South Dakota (no emissions testing, and all registration via Internet or Mail)...

... but I KEPT my Colorado Driver's License and the address listed on it (My Ex-house). This way I keep my CCW for the remainder of it's term (2 more years) at which time I will go ahead and get my SD license, stay 30-days in a SD RV park, and get my SD CCW (at a $140 savings I might add).

If I did not have the CO address to fall back on, then I'd just head over to SD, get my license, and stay the month to meet the requirements of the CCW.

V-T, I don't like to nit pick, but there are things about this approach that would worry me.

Say you're in CO, and you're forced to shoot someone in self defense.

At this point, the cops are going to go through your life with a fine tooth comb

"Mr. Van-Tramp, you're CCW says that you live at 123 ABC Street. But we checked over there, and you sold that house and no longer live there. You're vehicle is registered and insured in SD. It looks to us like you no longer live here in CO.

Your CCW became null and void as soon as you moved out of CO. You shot someone with a gun you were carrying illegally. That's a serious crime. We're going to have to take you in to custody for that."

Understand that I'm not a lawyer. I'm not saying this WOULD be a problem, I'm saying I'm worried this COULD be a problem.

You didn't say anything about where you vote or pay taxes. Do you have a passport, and if you do, what address does IT show?

Personally, I would want ALL my stuff to match.

Regards
John

 

[Van-Tramp]

John, a CCW does not give you the right to use your gun, it only allows you the right to carry it concealed. I can still defend myself, even if without a CCW. You are right, it *could* be added fuel (so can the type of ammo you use) but the possibility of this would not stop me from using my gun in self- or family- defense. If this is really a concern I can always open-carry (which I do 50/50) without any permit in the same number of states than my CCW allows me to conceal-carry (30 states allow OC without any permit, CO CCW is recognized only in 31 states, SD permit recognized in 30 states... same as CO CCW minus NM ).

I don't think I have ever had all my documents match in my adult entire life. Since I moved out of my Mother's place at age 16, I have moved every year or two. My DL has always been one address (or more) behind. My passport has had the wrong address since 2005 (it was only ever accurate for 6 months) and I just went into Mexico a few months back without a blink from the border patrol. Currently I have my DL, CCW, bank statements, auto insurance, and Library card all from CO. Only the vehicles have a different address, which is not as uncommon as you may think.

I do not vote (all politicians are crooks), and have not yet had to deal with taxes (just did the SD thing 3 months ago), but I will file my Fed-taxes as a SD resident next year (state taxes already have to be filed based on the state you EARN the taxes, not where you live). My passport actually still has my CA address from 2004 on it (4 addresses ago). I will be renewing it this year, and likely use the SD address on it since my CCW expires in 2 years and I will be getting a new one in SD anyway.

Basically, you can ride that fence between two addresses for a few years, but eventually all the docs do start to sort themselves out to a single address... if you stay put long enough.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Its common for folks to have docs with 2 addresses, but when it goes to 3 the questions begin to pop.
We have a "residence" addy and a mailing addy, which is quite common.
I've never had any issues with any of my paperwork using this system for most of my adult life and greater portion of those years were spent on the road.
I don't think I'd wanna shoot someone in a state where my paper didn't cover me...not that I wanna have to shoot in the first place.
If I pull it, I'm ready to fire tho.

 

[akrvbob]

My answers are in line and in red:

1. So when you initially kept your 'old' residential address, how did you keep from complications developing? Did you notify your state's motor vehicle department (or whatever they call the department that oversees driver's licenses) of a change only in mailing address? And you did not notify them of a change in residential address? Also, how did you handle the address issue with banks, health insurance, etc.?
It really was just as simple as filing out a change of address form for everybody I did business with. My mail started going to the UPS store and no one knew or cared if I lived at the old address or not.

2. When you plated your car in AZ, did you get an AZ driver's license? Or can you get plates in AZ while still having a different state's license? And if you got an AZ driver's license, didn't you have to surrender your Alaska driver's license? And, if so, did this create any trouble for you? I became a NV resident in 2008 and gave up my Alaska license and got a NV license. I still have a NV license and am a NV resident. I plated my van in AZ this year and they do not care where you live. My mailing address for the AZ plates is a P.O. Box in Pahrump, NV (my mailing forwarder). You must give them an address in AZ where the vehicle will be kept. I picked an address out of the air. You do have to get car insurance that is specific to the state. I'm with Pregressive and they just wrote e a new policy out of AZ and canceled my policy from NV. This is all legal and above-board except for the address out of the air. My CCW is AZ but as a non-resident

3. Have you been satisfied with your NV mail forwarder? And other than car insurance, do you have advice as to whether it's a good idea to domicile in and change one's official address to Nevada? I love my mail forwarder! She charges $100 a year and gives totally personal service. She offers to do anything within reason I could want done. I'm with Bank of America and there is a branch in Pahrump. On several occasions she has opened my mail and deposited a check for me at my bank!! She will open the mail and read it to me over the phones, scan and email it to me, or just forward it to me. Anything I ask, she does!

I need tax-free or I would switch to AZ. For me NV is best!! South Dakota is just as good and has much cheaper insurance. BUT, it's a 2000 mile round-trip drive the first time and then again every 5 years. That ruled it out for me. NV is a few hours away from Quartzsite where I spend my winters so it works best for me.

About the CCW. Van Tramp is right, you are confusing using a weapon in self-defense with carrying concealed. They are two separate issues. If you ever shoot someone there will be a criminal investigation to either call it justified self defense or murder. Your CCW will not play a role in that investigation.

It's possible there could be a totally second investigation on a separate charge of carrying without a license. But one will have no bearing on the other except that going to the trouble to get a CCW at all implies you are a good guy even if some technicality overrides its validity.
Bob

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with Bob and Van-Tramp about how unimportant having a problematic CCW following a completely justified self-defense shooting is.

I've actually taken both the 40 hour LFI1 and the 40 hour LFI2 course with Massad Ayoob.

to paraphrase something Mas taught during the course:

"When the cops show up, they're going to find you literally standing over a bleeding body holding a gun. To the cops minds, there are only two character roles available in this scene. The victim, and the perp.

The guy bleeding out on the ground is doing a VERY convincing imitation of a victim. You now need to convince the cops that he's not, YOU are."

Having an invalid CCW, having various forms of ID that don't match - and imply to a suspicious cop that maybe you're up to something shady - are not going to help at this point. Neither, frankly, is the fact that you appear to be some kind of wandering gypsy.

The more straight arrow you appear, the better your chances of convincing the cops that YOU are the good guy.

Regards
John

 

[Van-Tramp]

Luckily, the Police are not the people who judge you anyway. The fact is that you will be cuffed and brought in to the station no matter what. You will have your firearm taken away, and you will be questioned (obviously dont say a word without an attorney!). A valid CCW does not stop any of that and does not make a self-defense shoot any more or less legit. Clothing, tatoos, hair style, car driven, etc all play a role in the LEO's opinion of you. and all are just as irrelevant.

I have drawn my weapon against fellow humans 3 times in my life, all before I got my CCW. Twice the police were called to the scene. None of them ever even asked me for a CCW. Just remember, a CCW does not give you the right to defend yourself, your heartbeat does.

However, having your ducks in a row (pay parking tickets, no bench warrants, no drinking beforehand, etc) are all good advice. I wouldnt think twice about my DL and Auto-registration not matching the address. Just can't see how that would matter in a self-defense shoot. It may matter in a completely different case of wether or not you could posses the gun (concealed) at the time, but the shoot itself will still clean.

---

Obviously your advice of matching address across all docs doesn't hurt anything either, but I certainly wouldn't let that stop me from defending myself or doing ANYTHING else in life.

 

[GrinningPanther]

Hey Van-Tramp, thanks for sharing your recent experiences, and including many details, on these same issues I’m currently grappling with.

And I did indeed notice that SD’s CCW is not honored in NM, a state I was planning on spending a lot of time in—but I guess one solution for a person who gets SD residency would be to get AZ’s CCW, which is available to non-residents, too…and AZ’s CCW is honored in NM. Hmm…

Jay, thanks for your input. And I guess I’ll have to change my plans, then. When “paper doesn’t cover me,” no more Saturday nights shootin’ up the town. I guess I’ll just carry my weapons but be very careful about deploying them.

Bob, thank you for addressing in detail each of the questions I posed to you. I will reflect on what you said, and the information will be very helpful in my decision making.

Optimistic: Thanks for the cautions, and expressing another side of the argument on guns and documentation. I can especially relate to the idea of cops taking a dim view of someone living the Gypsy lifestyle.

Would you believe that after many years of home ownership and professional employment…and having no criminal record at all, only three weeks after I got the camper van, (but was/am living in an apartment with the van parked, with permission, in the apartment complex’s parking lot) the police came knocking at my door and interrogated me, because some neighbor down the block from my apartment complex was convinced that “somebody was living in the van” and was going to attack his family. And the cops did not seem convinced that I was innocent, even after talking with me, and even after the apartment manager verified that I was a good guy and was not in fact living in the van, etc. (as though living in the van would have been a crime…)

So only a few weeks ago I experienced this very stressful scrutiny and suspicion of (a homeowner and) the cops…likely because I own an old van, and secondly, as the apt. manager suggested to me, because I live in an aging apartment complex.

Anyway, it seems to me that cops, by and large, mean well. But they deal with “bad guys” all day long, and they’re quick to be suspicious, and are often negatively disposed toward those who lead unconventional lifestyles or who are on “the fringes” of society. So I indeed have no illusions about a cop taking my side in case of me ever having to use my weapon while on the road.

And Van-Tramp, I take your points on this issue, too. Ultimately, strictly speaking, you’re right that it isn’t the cops who convict or exonerate a person. It seems to me, though, that they often make judgment calls that can influence the events...and they have a lot of power as to how describe the likely circumstances, the story as they “heard” it, how to characterize what they saw as they write up their reports and speak to their superiors and possibly the DA, whether to nit-pick and charge a person with some obscure violation or another at the scene, and whether to goad a person into something they can be charged with, or even whether to charge someone with “resisting arrest” merely for normal behaviors, etc. I try hard to avoid contact with them.

Overall, I’m sure none of us wants to use our weapons against a person, not only because we’re decent human beings who don’t relish killing, but because even if we are exonerated and judged to be innocent…and even if no charges are ever brought against us…there’s a tremendous amount of stress involved with the process…and also a heavy burden of legal fees.

Thanks again to everyone for the information and perspectives you provided. I’ll review the info., and reflect upon it…and I hope reach enough clarity on these administrative matters to take decisive action soon.

Best,
GP

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Luckily, the Police are not the people who judge you anyway. The fact is that you will be cuffed and brought in to the station no matter what. You will have your firearm taken away, and you will be questioned (obviously dont say a word without an attorney!). A valid CCW does not stop any of that and does not make a self-defense shoot any more or less legit. Clothing, tatoos, hair style, car driven, etc all play a role in the LEO's opinion of you. and all are just as irrelevant.

V-T, I don't disagree with anything you said.

The District Attorney - or whatever he's called in the state you happen to be in - is going to have to decide whether to prosecute or not.

The police report is going to be the main information he has on what happened.

It's going to cost you anywhere from 50 to 100 thousand dollars to mount a good defense with a first class attorney. If you haven't got that kind of money, your future freedom is going to be in the hands of a probably not particularly competent public defender.

The BEST possible outcome is you survive the attack unharmed, the police take you into custody and conduct an investigation, and based on ALL of the information available, the DA decides not to press charges, and you are released.

Anything that would tend to paint you as a good guy is a good thing. Anything - anything at all - that would tend to paint you as not such a good guy is a Very bad thing, and should be avoided, if at all possible.

Step 1: Survive the incident.

Step 2: Survive the aftermath.

I agree that your paperwork is irrelevant to Step 1. I just think you are underestimating it's potential importance to Step 2.

Regards
John