Off Topic Posts Moved Here

[CosmickGold]

. . . . I looked over the rules and can not find a specific "Stay On Topic" rule so I'll add it to Bob's Rules: Vision, Spirit and Letter of the Law.

Rvwandering, rruff and I were both rather devastated that you blocked our threat at "The Earth is Flat!!!" from any additional comments, telling us simply "due to arguing". The thread was meant to be a friendly debate (which is a kind of "arguing"). Both rruff and I -- if not others -- were actively searching Google for more information to share and strengthen our views. But when we returned, we found you had locked the gate!

I agree a few people were making really dumb comments, and I would want to delete them as well, along with those containing words like "stupid" and "idiot" (and I would explain to the offenders why). The discussion was in the "off topic" forum, and we were really into it, enjoying our expressing and our learning.

Isn't there an alternative to suddenly running into a total roadblock halfway way down the street? Isn't there a way we can fix it so we can continue to enjoy sharing and learning the views of others?

 

[Morgana]

a few people were making really dumb comments, and I would want to delete them as well,

There's no rule against really dumb comments.
Kinda mean to call other people's posts dumb isn't it?

 

[CosmickGold]

There's no rule against really dumb comments.
Kinda mean to call other people's posts dumb isn't it?

I stand corrected. I just read through those pages and found my memory tricked me. I remembered words posted such as "fool" and "idiot", and my mind built context around those words that -- going back to review -- showed me was never actually there! (Oops!) No dumb comments.

 

[Zerpersande]

There's no rule against really dumb comments.
Kinda mean to call other people's posts dumb isn't it?

I try to avoid ‘stupid’ and ‘dumb’. Both of those terms mean a lower than average ability to learn. Instead the word ’ignorant’ most often applies. And some cases a deficiency in their educational experience is the cause. Personally I think it’s generally caused by a lack of effort toward learning during the educational years, so laziness is often the cause of ignorance in modern societies. Ignorance is often encouraged by the family due to a lack of respect proper education. But ignorance in and of itself it’s not necessarily a “bad” thing.

What IS a very negative thing is willful ignorance.Science and our general body of knowledge can contain erroneous data. It happens. In science this now most often occurs at the )cutting edge) so to speak. A few hundred years ago our body of knowledge was filled with total nonsense, myth, false beliefs, and folk lore. Science started cleaning out that mess. Of course there was resistance, and in its infancy science was often proved wrong. But it was proved wrong BY SCIENCE. Newton was mistaken about the ‘force’ of gravity. Quantum mechanics shows no force to exist, but the idea of a still force works well when it is necessary to deal with things attracting other things. So Newton’s equations apply, but the concept is flawed. Science found out all of that.

The GREEKS knew the earth was round. Aristotle made a decent guessbut was still around double the actual figure. But another Greek, forget his name, was sound scientific reasoning and math to only be a couple of miles off. And it’s not something that is justifiably up for debate. To deny such may colloquially be termed as ‘stupid’ or ‘dumb’ but it is more appropriately termed willful ignorance. Which I personally think is far worse trait than being stupid or dumb.

 

[KarlH]

The GREEKS knew the earth was round. Aristotle made a decent guessbut was still around double the actual figure. But another Greek, forget his name, was sound scientific reasoning and math to only be a couple of miles off. And it’s not something that is justifiably up for debate. To deny such may colloquially be termed as ‘stupid’ or ‘dumb’ but it is more appropriately termed willful ignorance. Which I personally think is far worse trait than being stupid or dumb.

If you're thinking of ancient Greek measurements of shadows cast simultaneously at different latitudes and similar longitudes, that would be Eratosthenes. His measurements actually don't prove that the Earth is round (at the time they could have been easily reconciled with Persian cosmology), but he was able to estimate Earth's radius quite accurately given his (correct) assumption that it is indeed round.

I don't want to hijack the moderation thread any more than I already have, so I think I'll take the bait and post another thread focusing on the history/math/metrology and not on the current political controversy...

 

[Zerpersande]

I don't want to hijack the moderation thread any more than I already have, so I think I'll take the bait and post another thread focusing on the history/math/metrology and not on the current political controversy...

But this topic IS related to moderation and deleted posts bc this topic was being discussed in another thread and was closed due to the expression of opposing opinions.

 

[CosmickGold]

. . . . this topic was being discussed in another thread and was closed due to the expression of opposing opinions.

Excellent point, Zerpersande. It has become a matter of "Free Speech", the First Amendment. Certainly, opposing opinions should be allowed.

Arguing in the form of "I'm right and you're wrong!" deserves to be banned. But if you are not attacking a person or a group; but instead, expressing an opposing position with supporting evidence and your sources, that should never be banned.

Thank you for making the real issue so clear!

 

[Zerpersande]

Arguing in the form of "I'm right and you're wrong!" deserves to be banned.

Well, I’m right because of this particular ‘fact’ is supported by testable, repeatable, peer reviewed investigations and you’re wrong because (whatever reason there is), generally that there is no supporting evidence or it flies in the face of fact.

 

[GotSmart]

I remember Bob going off on the YARC THREAD about staying on topic. That is when we started another forum without that rule to allow a discussion to evolve. If it gets good, we split off the thread to avoid too much confusion.

This forum has always been about one subject, one thread. Bob’s forum, Bob’s rules. I can respect that.

What I saw about the flat earth thread is it was hitting on forbidden subjects. (Poly tick or religion).

 

[user 22017]

It has become a matter of "Free Speech", the First Amendment.

... expressing an opposing position with supporting evidence and your sources, that should never be banned.

Another way to look at this issue is that this is a forum dedicated to camping and RV life. Knowing that a topic is controversial and will likely involve arguments, why post the topic? It is requiring the Mods to monitor a busy thread that is completely unrelated to RV Life.

We all know you can find just about any topic on the internet. So why not post in a Flat Earth Forum?

Free speech is more likely to be required on a public forum owned by the government (City, County, State, etc.) This forum is privately owned. They make the rules.

 

[CosmickGold]

Well, I’m right because of this particular ‘fact’ is supported by testable, repeatable, peer reviewed investigations and you’re wrong because (whatever reason there is), generally that there is no supporting evidence or it flies in the face of fact.

Ha! Ha! Ha! You really did make me laugh right now with a big smile. (Laughing emoji is usually shown with teeth, but I don't have any teeth.)

I have no doubt you are right. But my magical view of how reality works tells me I'm not wrong. However, I would be wrong to throw my view of reality in other people's faces who don't want to see it. Creating such conflicts doesn't help anything. My personal experience is proof to me that I'm right (which does not mean you are in any way wrong.) But such proof is only good for those who experience it firsthand, not anyone else.

So I wrote a 33-thousand-word free online book in .pdf format, titled A Lifetime of Magic, hoping to help others (who desire such help) to have the same kind of experiences and know such personal (but solid) "proof" can be theirs as well.

The problem I have with the "I'm right and you're wrong" concept, is that it belittles -- and therefore insults -- the other person. But to simply state the facts as you see them and give your reasons/sources doesn't do that. Stating what's real for you gives the other person a chance to see, and either accept or reject it, without any need to feel "attacked" or shamed.

 

[CosmickGold]

Another way to look at this issue is that this is a forum dedicated to camping and RV life. Knowing that a topic is controversial and will likely involve arguments, why post the topic? It is requiring the Mods to monitor a busy thread that is completely unrelated to RV Life.

We all know you can find just about any topic on the internet. So why not post in a Flat Earth Forum?

Free speech is more likely to be required on a public forum owned by the government (City, County, State, etc.) This forum is privately owned. They make the rules.

They have created an off-topic forum for such threads, and I think we should be free to use it as such. I also think off-topic discussions elsewhere in the forum should be moved there or removed (with reasons given to the participants.)

Free speech is needed in WAY more places than just "a public forum owned by the government". Take Google, Facebook, and Twitter for example. They are "privately owned" but my gosh, look at how much damage they've done to the national consciousness with their selective censorship! It's uncertain if we will ever recover.

 

[RoamerRV428]

by rambling, off topic discussion and argument that must be sorted thru to find what they are looking for.

Right?

Right ----big big wink here-----the arguments are pure darn entertainment for me sometimes LOL Sorry but true. Just rubbernecking reading the posts sometimes is darn enjoyable HA

but always agree, personal direct attacks are not cool for sure but again, damn if they ain't fun to Ohh and Ahh over when ya hit one. Yup human nature kicking in here guys and this hits the majority of us in truth

 

[Morgana]

Maybe also important = the fact that some members (especially the ones the forum was originally created for) might have limited data/low bandwidth?

Imagine having a problem on a dark cold rainy night and trying to scroll through some of this stuff on a cr@ppy phone that's running out of both data and battery --- very different from the comfy desk or couch, full-size screen and keyboard, and unlimited Internet and electric access that some of us are having our fun from.

IIRC, in the original rules, low bandwidth was given as a reason to avoid long posts, but that same argument would apply to off-topic posts.

I know this is "just" a forum, not the Encyclopedia Britvanica, but it would be soooooo easy to stick to these few rules, in this one place, to make it more welcoming and useful to more people.

 

[RoamerRV428]

I know this is "just" a forum, not the Encyclopedia Britvanica, but it would be soooooo easy to stick to these few rules, in this one place, to make it more welcoming and useful to more people.

what Eden planet you live on? HAHA

meaning it can't happen ever as some Utopia, but in full truth this forum is BIG TOPS and very nice and warm welcome and more vs. what the heck is out there now on the 'net. It was when Bob did it and it still is so far in the new ownership. But we all still got our pet peeves to handle on every post and comment written, but darn this place is a nice place to chat if ya ask me! I personally feel super safe here to chat up and not get mugged on the 'net to the ultimate crazy out there

 

[RoamerRV428]

Why moved here? In that it WAS on topic with the chat the way the thread was chatting...............yea powers that be, while I get ya, are kinda not truly in tone with it all but in the end, do I care? Nope....but I did care enough to voice my opinion on it LOL
all cool

 

[bullfrog]

“My what a tangled web we weave!” Lol!!!

 

[Morgana]

here kitty kitty

 

[WanderingRose]

In the end, our right to free speech protects us from government infringement, it doesn’t pertain to private forums, where mods and admin make the rules and it is our responsibility to do our best to abide by them.

One can debate anything the involved parties agree on in private messaging, right?

I don’t understand the endless wheel-spinning over this.

Let’s talk Turkey Day! Hope everyone has ample food, plus friends and/or loved ones to share it with.

 

[Morgana]

I for one hope to be enjoying the heck out of some fabulous tacos in Laredo, Texas ... fulfilling a lifelong dream inspired by the cultural icons of my youth.
(starts at 3:17)