Keto Lifestyle

[flying kurbmaster]

Can someone explain the difference between the atkinsons and keto diets, I see very little difference. A friend whom I have a lot of respect for who, like myself had been a vegetarian/vegan for many decades. recently started ketoing. I put it down to their daughters influence or hard sell and parents too often following their children’s fads. From what I understand after a bit of research, following the out of body experience of the initial adjustment it is beneficial to loose weight, and with less weight it is easier to control diabetes and other diseases. There have been countless studies done over multiple decades on the issues with consuming meat and dairy, how can anyone throw that évidence out the window in order to sell a book or protein powder. Plant based diets are consistently watered down because when most people are told to drop what they hav3 been doing, completely, they resist so gov agencies, nutritionist, food experts, scientists, consistently tell everyone to increase their plant consomption so they get healthier rather then tell them to eliminate all meat and dairy, sugar, because there are so many other factors involved like large industries that have to adjust. You could never pass smoking laws in 1968. Or laws to have catchers on your horses tail within city limits in 1706. Society is not very nimble.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

 . . . There have been countless studies done over multiple decades on the issues with consuming meat and dairy, how can anyone throw that évidence out the window  . . .

Some of us have figured out that the results of many scientific studies are driven by who is paying the bill.  Government 'science' is probably the worst offender, especially in nutrition and health.  So we ignore them and figure things out for ourselves.

 

[G0ldengirl68]

Can someone explain the difference between the atkinsons and keto diets, I see very little difference. A friend whom I have a lot of respect for who, like myself had been a vegetarian/vegan for many decades. recently started ketoing. I put it down to their daughters influence or hard sell and parents too often following their children’s fads. From what I understand after a bit of research, following the out of body experience of the initial adjustment it is beneficial to loose weight, and with less weight it is easier to control diabetes and other diseases. There have been countless studies done over multiple decades on the issues with consuming meat and dairy, how can anyone throw that évidence out the window in order to sell a book or protein powder. Plant based diets are consistently watered down because when most people are told to drop what they hav3 been doing, completely, they resist so gov agencies, nutritionist, food experts, scientists, consistently tell everyone to increase their plant consomption so they get healthier  rather then tell them to eliminate all meat and dairy, sugar,  because there are so many other factors involved like large industries that have to adjust. You could never pass smoking laws in 1968. Or laws to have catchers on your horses tail within city limits in 1706. Society is not very nimble.

Is your way of eating working for you?  Then, why even worry about what people like me that are building ketones in our bodies, and taming Insulin is working.   I've read studies to the contrary of what many of us realize, was bad information.  Really, the only way to know is to try something ourselves.  I don't see a thing unhealthy about Keto.  Dropping sugar, which has been proven over and over to cause major issues, and foods that are "turned into sugar" are no help either.  Some people don't get the bad health, I guess, I really can't say if or when they get sick.

Out of body experience??  I didn't have that one, but I sure had some nasty, flu-like withdrawals from sugars/carbohydrates.  Listen to some of the more serious scientists, doctors, teachers and I think you'll find that they can answer you much better than this "student".  This one is good if you really want to know the difference between Atkins and Ketosis:

 

[G0ldengirl68]

Some of us have figured out that the results of many scientific studies are driven by who is paying the bill.  Government 'science' is probably the worst offender, especially in nutrition and health.  So we ignore them and figure things out for ourselves.

I would rather try something myself if I feel it's safe, than read a study.  Although, I've read some studies that back-up the Ketogenic way of nutrition, leading to wellness.  Just think of Big Pharma, and people that have, and still are making huge dollars on old ideas.  What if there's an alternative to drugs for, lets say, Diabetes or Altzeimers?  What about an alternative to pain-killers, or anti-depressants? OMG, what will happen to the MD's that got very little teaching on nutrition, or supplementing deficiencies in our bodies that can cause disease?  

Why are people fighting against alternatives?  Because they have love for man-kind?  Because they will lose their income from selling drugs? Or because they can't bear to admit they may have been wrong?

 

[rvwandering]

I deleted several posts. One of Bob's Rules is: Don’t ever attack, belittle or denigrate anyone. If you don't agree with a forum subject please respectfully disagree or refrain from posting. Thanks!

 

[crofter]

Interesting discussion. From personal experience, I have not achieved a huge weight loss with keto during the covid pandemic. I am pretty sure I was over stressed and producing more cortisol from that stress (cortisol causes weight gain).  I did use test strips, so I know ketosis was happening.

IMHO stress produced cortisol was more the culprit for the covid 20 than lack of outdoor exercise, though I'm sure compounded by lack of time in nature, a stress buster. In my case I did not gain weight either during the pandemic.

Going forward, I plan to increase protein and healthy fats in my diet while avoiding carbs, and decreasing dairy. I get most of my fats from oils and enjoy coconut based products most. 

On the down side of keto, I feel that I am eating more factory food with keto that I was previously. And factory food is philosophically wrong for me personally, even if it is organically made.
-crofter

 

[G0ldengirl68]

It is interesting and I learn something new about it every day.  Like I've heard from some that you can eat all you want and still lose, but the other side of that discussion is that it still depends on not eating over our Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE).  That makes sense to me, and if I want to lose a pound, I eat a lesser amount than the tdee.  I hope I have that right.  It's been awhile since I calculated mine and came up with eating right around 1400 a day, but I've never been really on target with that.

I've only been concerned with my Blood Glucose being brought down to normal levels, and mostly they are in the 6.0 range.  So it's a lot of the same foods every week, kind same menu, but I switch it up with different meats, vegies, and dairy.  Been lazy and enjoying just eating thing like broccoli raw with something like Ranch Dressing.  I do get tired of cooking, and food to me is more necessary than enjoyable anymore.  But I don't miss the hunger pangs, and the sugar drops after eating carbs. Bikman's Insulin Resistance info is so interesting to me.  His can be really hard to understand, but Dr. Berg makes it easier to wrap my brain around why it happens, and what exactly is going on when it does.

 

[badmotorscooter]

Wow, I've been gone over 2 years and this thread has been revived and is still going strong.

I have not read any specific studies substantiating lots of physical activity with moderating blood glucose levels? But there very well might be some out there and I believe there is a strong connection between the two.

But of course that's my go to solution for most medical issues, lol! But seriously, it is working for me...

 

[mattvei]

bottom line read Dr. Michael Greger's bppks "how not to die" and "how not to diet" plus his website nutritionfacts.org. cuts out all the BS. All peer reviewed evidence based. Then if you really want the sh**t scared out of you and why a nomadic life will be the ultimate salvation read his "how to survive a pandemic", Can you say H5N1 or H7N9

 

[Doubleone]

Wow! Never in my wildest imagination did I think this thread would still be active after two-plus years. At the time I originally posted, as you may guess, I was feeling quite helpless and frustrated that my best friend was in failing health and on his death bed. I was seriously worried I would lose him to something that I see as preventable, and I really just needed to vent. Thank you all for your kind understanding, and a fantastic discussion. To update everyone, my big brother (Giant) did recover and he is still alive and kicking, but obviously has continuing health problems. He had another surgery and lost more of his foot, but he's still alive. Fortunately, he recently lost a bunch of excess weight and is better managing his diet. I think spending time in the hospital and losing parts of his foot put the fear of God into him... As for me, I'm on-and-off Keto but generally follow a low-carb diet. Covid really threw us all a curveball... I broke my normal routine and severely curtailed my physical activity when all my cycling friends stopped riding as a group. Consequently, I'm up some extra lb's myself. As they say, in the real world life happens, but the cool thing about eating low carb (or plant-based, or other) is that you can always go back and do it right for your next meal. Maybe we'll slip in the moment and indulge, or perhaps backslide in our eating routine, the reality is that it happens to all of us... Just forgive yourself, move on, and focus on eating better from there forward. Also, I firmly believe we all need to pause and take those moments to reflect and celebrate life. As for myself, I have this rule that I will never refuse birthday cake from a 7-year-old, or any celebration cake for that matter. But I'll just take a small portion. As for plant-based diets, I see absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with that. I know many very healthy people who eat vegetarian, vegan, pescatarian, or some variation. In the end, you do you, but the important thing is to eat healthy. Consider the info presented in this thread, and if it works for you then great, if not then keep searching to discover what works for you! My wish is that everyone can be healthy, happy, and enjoy a long life. Much love to all... Take care!

 

[JDelete]

Very interesting. I have not read the majority of the posts in this thread.

I am a skeptic when it comes to all the supposed diets that claim to cure all that ails you, promises the pot of gold, etc. But, I am also the curious type. Having said all that, I find the keto diet quite interesting. Here's why:

When I go out on my extended adventures (I am not full-time nomad yet), my food scenario is quite a bit different than usual. Since I pick foods that are easy/low prep, minimal waste, etc., I eat a lot of eggs (usually hard boiled), canned fish, lunch meats (as healthy as I can find), cheese, etc. I do have a slice or two of "normal" bread with the sandwiches so that i non-keto. I also have bananas at the beginning of a trip but those soon run out. I have apples as well. One thing I never have on my adventures is potatoes which is something I eat a lot when in my sticks and bricks. I am not a beverage drinker and only drink coffee and water. I do tend to drink more water when on adventures.

But, as I researched keto, I found that a good portion of my diet is keto friendly.

The interesting thing to me is that I always seem to feel better. I lose weight in the places where I want to lose it (around the belly), I feel more energy, less hunger pangs, and overall just feel better.

 

[Doubleone]

Very interesting. I have not read the majority of the posts in this thread.

I am a skeptic when it comes to all the supposed diets that claim to cure all that ails you, promises the pot of gold, etc. But, I am also the curious type. Having said all that, I find the keto diet quite interesting. Here's why:

When I go out on my extended adventures (I am not full-time nomad yet), my food scenario is quite a bit different than usual. Since I pick foods that are easy/low prep, minimal waste, etc., I eat a lot of eggs (usually hard boiled), canned fish, lunch meats (as healthy as I can find), cheese, etc. I do have a slice or two of "normal" bread with the sandwiches so that i non-keto. I also have bananas at the beginning of a trip but those soon run out. I have apples as well. One thing I never have on my adventures is potatoes which is something I eat a lot when in my sticks and bricks. I am not a beverage drinker and only drink coffee and water. I do tend to drink more water when on adventures.

But, as I researched keto, I found that a good portion of my diet is keto friendly.

The interesting thing to me is that I always seem to feel better. I lose weight in the places where I want to lose it (around the belly), I feel more energy, less hunger pangs, and overall just feel better.

Seems like you are already eating a very healthy low-carb style, which is essentially a low glycemic diet having similar benefits as keto. It seems like it's working for you, so you should stick with it. Keto is just a bit more focused toward an even lower carb intake. When we restrict carbs down to under say 25-50 a day, our metabolism changes over to burn fat and create ketones that our brain and body uses for fuel. It takes about a week to get into a ketosis state, and during the transition time, you might experience what we call keto flu (temporary low energy, achy, headache). Ketosis or keto for short, is when your body has fully changed from glucose fuel to ketones for fuel. Once in a ketosis state, it's fairly stable as long as we manage carbs. I've found I can go as high as 100 carbs in a single day and not get kicked out of ketosis, but not for two days in a row. Beware of foods labeled as "keto-friendly", as it is often deceiving as they may have just a tiny bit fewer carbs than normal products, but the advertising gimmick is to show keto-friendly on the label. You can eat an apple because the sugar isn't that high and digestion is slowed by the fiber in the apple. Although fiber is technically a carbohydrate it's considered a freebie, so when we're talking about the number of carbs it's the net carbs we look at. In other words, net carbs are the total carbs minus the fiber carbs. However, any simple carbs (sugars) will cause an immediate reversal of metabolism back to using glucose as fuel, and essentially you get kicked out of ketosis. I find if I promptly restrict carbs I can get back into ketosis rather quickly, but if I delay at all I might have to start over. A banana is a big sugar dump that you want to avoid because it will likely kick you out of ketosis. Any sugar triggers an insulin response which is our fat-storage mechanism. When on ketosis our bodies create a leptin hormone which contributes to feeling of satiety. Leptin response and ketosis is a fat-burning mechanism, insulin response is a fat-storage mechanism. It makes sense that we can toggle back and forth between the two fuels, but we default to glucose fuel and fat storage because bodies have evolved for survival. Consider early humans often struggled to find food, and they would eat what was available at the time. For instance, when fruits, veggies, and grains were readily available in spring/summer, they would eat a high-carb diet, triggering an insulin response to store up internal fat reserves in their bodies. With insulin response the more sugar we eat the more we crave sugar, and this forces our bodies to store more and more fat. In fall/winter months when fresh fruits, veggies, and grains weren't available they would eat a more meat/fat-based diet and utilize internal fat reserves to hold them over and survive the winter. Also our sense of taste is programmed to know that sweet means food and bitter is poison, and so we like sweet foods. In modern times, since we have a food abundance, we naturally tend to gravitate more toward eating carbs but without the meat/fat diet and fasting period. Although someone could sustain keto indefinitely, I tend to cycle on and off keto myself, and mimick the natural cycle. Like I said before, it all starts sounding like religion, but it's just an understanding of what your body does with the different fuels you feed it. In the end, you do you, eat what your body wants, and be healthy and happy...

 

[JDelete]

Doubleone,
Thank you for your detailed reply and the very useful information. I am glad to hear that apples are a "freebie." A couple of apples a day for me significantly help my digestion and the "end result."