New idea for waste disposal?

[TrainChaser]

I didn't think of this myself.  I got hold of Anna Edey's second book (first was the famous Solviva), titled The Light at the End of the Tunnel, just to see what she was doing now, and found this, and immediately thought RV?  Would it work under these conditions?

One section of it tells about how she uses redworms (Eisenia fetida, specifically) to break down human waste.  I haven't got all of the details fixed in my poor little A.D.D. brain yet, but it sort of sounds like it would work in a van or RV.  I guess you could include some urine in it (enough to keep it moist), but w/o a bottom drain, it doesn't seem likely that you could include all that you would produce.

Redworms require more top surface area than other types of worms, so a rectangular container (like an 18-20 gallon Rubbermaid tote would be better than a 5-gallon bucket.  The bedding material would be sawdust/leaves/compost (sawdust: regular woodworker type, not dust, not shavings, not varieties that resist breaking down).  The material needs to be kept damp, not wet.  They can apparently accept urine, but you can't drown them in it.  If you separate the urine, you have to add water.

She said there is no odor, but she does use a tiny ('biscuit'???) fan, very low power.   A goodly supply of redworms will break down a solid deposit in about 2 days in warmer weather; I think she means not freezing -- her insulated outdoor unit works all year in MA, but a bit slower.  One thing that shocked her was that she kept checking the container for when to empty it, and the level took forever to reach that point, but she had more and more worms.

Around here (WA) redworms cost about $25/lb -- a one-time expense until you do something dumb, it sounds.

If ('IF') a regular heavy-duty Rubbermaid tote would hold a person's weight... maybe if you put a wooden platform all the way across the top to spread out the weight over the existing support, cut the hole and installed a regular toilet seat?

Has anyone ever tried anything like this?

And before all of the Constantly Fearful start yammering about disease, she has the results of independent testing.  E. coli seems to be the first to disappear; if I understand properly, many bacteria are completely digested when they go through the worms' guts -- GONE.  She lists the results of the tests.

One part that I'm not clear on is the usual one- or two-year safety breakdown time that is mentioned in The Humanure Handbook by Joseph Jenkins.  OTOH, if you aren't harboring anything nasty (infectious diseases like cholera, typhoid or rotovirus) except for the usual intestinal bacteria, what would be the problem? And I'm not sure about the worms staying in the container -- would they try to migrate or something?

I'm going to condense the information and give it a try, I think.  I've tried things that don't work -- and this might be one of them, but..... it would be great if it did work.

 

[jonsun]

idk but i sure am hungry now thinking about putting one of them on a fish hook when they go squirt

 

[DrJean]

It was hard enough for my dad and I to raise enough worms to go fishing with, I can't imagine the added issue of humanure!

 

[coffeewitholiver]

 "I guess you could include some urine in it (enough to keep it moist), but w/o a bottom drain, it doesn't seem likely that you could include all that you would produce."

I would avoid moistening with urine to keep odor down. The bin would need to be protected from freezing, definitely. With some trial and error on your part, this should work. These worms are great for composting. For the jokers, sorry, they aren't great bait anyway.

 

[TrainChaser]

Coffee: "I would avoid moistening with urine to keep odor down. The bin would need to be protected from freezing, definitely."

Actually, she said there was no odor, and her entire family was putting ALL of their waste in there; this might be because of the active (rather than what might be called 'passive') breakdown by the worms.

I intend to insulate my van, and also be a snowbird, avoiding actual freezing temperatures, but Ms. Edey only used 2" of polyiso insulation inside a freestanding outdoor wooden structure, and the worms continued their job in temps as low as 7F.

Bardo: They're pretty small, max of 3". You could probably find better just by digging a hole in the ground.

DrJean: "It was hard enough for my dad and I to raise enough worms to go fishing with, I can't imagine the added issue of humanure!"

Then it probably wouldn't be right for you. But I've spent most of my 67 years shoveling sh!t from dogs and cleaning out cat boxes, plus raising worms, black soldier flies and picking up earthworms on wet cement with my fingers and putting them in a better place. I don't really understand the fear and loathing of something we produce every single day in our own bodies, but that, too, is just me.

 

[Phantom Blooper]

"For the jokers, sorry, they aren't great bait anyway."

They are sold in bait shops on the East coast for salt water fishing.....in cups by the dozen.

I have used them and caught croakers...spots...skates and crabs off Eastern NC piers.

They will bite so try to stay away from mouth....I am not squeamish but when hooking I used a rag to keep the blood off my hands and squirting when hook inserted

TrainChaser...I raised earthworms years ago when I had acreage...for fishing and garden.....

Does this woman say to grind the vegetable/peeling scraps up?

If not the worms do not eat the whole scraps as fast and then there can potentially be a bad smell.....

 

[Thirsty Boots Nomad]

Do not know about the "no smell" part; ... and because I have no sense of smell would be afraid to try it because there might be a smell that accumulated that would permeate and/or overpower anyone I parked near ...

However, I did do some research at one point about vermi-culture/vermi-composting and from what I read/heard worms are an EXCELLENT method of composting/creating good soil in a relatively short period of time. Also, depending on someone's personal "ewww" quotient, they reproduce prodigiously as long as there is enough space; ... so if a portion of the adult/adolescent worms were removed every couple months to be sold for whatever purpose someone could have a small ongoing source of income (along with a source of quality potting/planting soil that could possibly also be sold).

 

[jonney38]

I tried to use these worms in a box in the basement of my house years ago. I could not get the right balance between garbage and dry material. I bought new worms maybe three times--gave up.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

. . .
Actually, she said there was no odor, and her entire family was putting ALL of their waste in there; this might be because of the active (rather than what might be called 'passive') breakdown by the worms.

I would think that putting all your urine into the container would drown the worms.  Average adult produces ~ 1.5 quarts of urine a day, and ~128 grams (~ 3/4 pint by volume) of bulk solids a day.  That results in a very wet slurry.

Sense of smell is a very personal thing.  IMO there would be a smell.  Feces starts smelling immediately and if it takes the worms 2 days to break it down and I am adding to it every day . . .

 -- Spiff

 

[Thirsty Boots Nomad]

 Average adult produces ~ 1.5 quarts of urine a day, and ~128 grams (~ 3/4 pint by volume) of bulk solids a day.  That results in a very wet slurry.


 -- Spiff

1) How would you like to be the person who figured that out, lol &
2) Probably was a government sponsored study; so ... our tax dollars at work

 

[Gigi]

There is a woman that has the page TINY HOME BIG ADVENTURES on facebook thst tried worms in her composting toilet. The worms were quite mobile and were everywhere inside and outside her toilet. Worm idea was discarded. lol

 

[TrainChaser]

Spiff & Thirsty Boots: SHE had a bottomless (I think I failed to mention that part) box with the worms outside her home, so she didn't have a problem due to natural soil drainage for liquids. For MY situation (van), I just can't imagine that I could add the usual amount of urine without drainage, and get away with it. Some maybe, but not all.

Gigi: I don't have Facebook (and no intention of doing so) -- did you notice if she used redworms specifically, or just earthworms? Did she just use a regular bucket?

Doing more research, I am finding that people who use the redworms usually have some kind of drainage, so excess urine isn't an issue, and most of them are in tiny homes (which tend to be more stationary) rather than RVs/vans specifically. And the few I've found don't mention a problem with 'escapees'.

More personal research required. Onward.

 

[Gigi]

I am pretty sure they were redworms and she has a Nature's Head composting toilet.  You might be very successful with your set up.  Please keep up us updated!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1) How would you like to be the person who figured that out, lol &

 Been there, done that.

 -- Spiff

 

[TrainChaser]

Thank you, Gigi. The shape/depth of the toilet might have been the problem. And it also has a crank stiring mechanism -- I wonder if she used it and scared them away?

 

[TrainChaser]

ThirstyBoots: "How would you like to be the person who figured that out, lol"

Several years ago, I was reading about some strange things that companies acquired grant money for (taxpayer subsidized). One (probably a deodorant company) was a worldwide test for what kind of people had the worst body odor. How would they test for that, sniff armpits? How many people? How much money did they get?

But I do remember the results: White women of western European descent.

 

[WriterMs]

Most vandwellers who use the bucket toilet method have no problem keeping most urine separate...guys have it easier obviously. So I would think you should plan to keep things separate at least at first to avoid the need to drain and to more accurately test out the solids composting.

It is easy to keep urine in a liquid laundry detergent container (detergent gone, of course) and then empty that in a latrine or rest stop bathroom, etc., if you are not boondocking where you take a walk.

 

[bullfrog]

Have you ever smelled a bunch of dead worms, everyone near by will know if it works for a long time!

 

[Vagabondwannabe]

There is a woman that has the page TINY HOME BIG ADVENTURES on facebook thst tried worms in her composting toilet.  The worms were quite mobile and were everywhere inside and outside her toilet.  Worm idea was discarded.  lol

I composted my kitchen scraps for many years using red worms in various types of bin configurations in the basement of my home. It was a great success. I also tried vermicomposting my dog's poo in a separate bin outside - that was a failure, but mainly because I couldn't provide them with enough poo for their needs, I think.

The best source of information online is https://www.redwormcomposting.com/ 

You need to provide bedding material such as shredded newspaper or cardboard (carbon source), in addition to the nitrogen source (manure or vegetable matter). Moisture control is very important. The worms need to be able to absorb oxygen through their skin. They will easily drown if too much moisture builds up, so drainage is key. 

The worms will stay put as long as living conditions remain favorable for them (temperature, moisture, ph, light, food, etc). They dislike being disturbed by stirring or vibrations. They stratify their environment, living mostly near the surface, but migrate up and down. 

What they consume is the bacteria which decompose the organic matter. It would seem to me that manure would be a great food source for them, because it's mostly composed of bacteria from the animal's gut. Urine would be terrible, I think, due to the high concentration of nitrogen, salts and its acidic nature. It would also add too much water.

The worms will readily jump ship and crawl out whenever conditions become unbearable.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

 . . . They dislike being disturbed by . . . vibrations  . . .

That would make it difficult for a van dweller who moves around a lot (or some).

 -- Spiff