Mini-Van-Camper-Conversion

[Wandern]

Very good question. I will share MY thoughts, but keep in mind that everyone is different. Judging from the name of this site, many (most) are living (or planning to) in their vehicles, while I am just a simple weekend or vacation camper with a fixed home base, so very different situations.

Our water usage (similar to power/electricity needs) is very low. And, a large part of that serves to fill water bottles and cook soups and stuff.
In our previous camper, we had a regular sink/drain/gray water tank. We rarely used it. We collected the water from washing hands and dishes in a little tub like that and used it to water nature around us.
I know, I know... there are rules, regulations, opinions, wildlife, and all that. I obey, mostly, but also do not blow things out of proportion if I can help it.

We generally brush our teeth outside. We use paper plates for sticky/oily food, and if there's just crumbs and such, we re-use them a few times too.

So, in short, no drain nor gray tank, at least in the beginning. It is fairly easy to put in a sink and connect it to a water jug if one wants to though.

This goes a bit along the lines of the yays and nays of outside showering. All depends a bit, like whether you're boon-docking, or are in the middle of a busy camping with large "NO OUTDOOR SHOWERZZ" signs then of course don't.

 

[maki2]

I have my build priorities all sorted out, completed and ready to use! A fan and comfy place to lie down and take a nap

 

[LargeMarge]

...kitchen...water setup...

View attachment 35887

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If I was me, I might swap the tank outlet to *ABOVE* the water level.
I would pull from a couple inches (5cm) from the bottom to...
A) reduce sludge in my stew, and
B) reduce those inevitable leaks from vehicle vibration.
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I could always add a dump outlet near the bottom of the tank, screwed and Teflon-taped.
Other than extremely rare cleaning, that dump outlet is permanent sealed.
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I would filter incoming water to, again, reduce sludge.
Why!
One of my hobbies is walking vehicle wrecking-yards aka 'dismantlers'.
After the aluminum skin is removed for recycling from a factory RecreateVehicle, the translucent water-tanks are visible for inspection.
Inevitably, I can find at least a couple-three inches (8cm+) of foul mud settled to the bottom of a fresh-water container.
Filtering incoming tends to catch most of that crud.
.
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In our introduction, we describe our primitive water 'system'.
We prefer minimal instead of complicated, because it's easier for Simple Minds [points to self] to fix/replace in our preferred rustic rural villages:
https://vanlivingforum.com/threads/expeditionvehicle-build.44908/#post-576110
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In our introduction, we could add a section about worshing hands and cookware.
That new section would detail using a pair of spritz bottles, one with a sudsy solution, the other with a clear rinse.
Worshing hands takes an ounce or so (30ml), worshing a cast-iron skillet uses maybe triple that.
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[edited to add]
So far, ZEP-brand commercial-rated spritz bottles hold-up pretty good.
And 'yes', because of their importance, we carry spares.

 

[LargeMarge]

...using screws and wood glue instead of staples going nowhere) will overall make it a much less finicky...

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Instead of screws, I prefer bolts.
I like spreading the stress on each end of the bolt by using yuge fender-worshers.
To secure heavy loads such as our fresh-water five-gallon Pepsi kegs, I add a stout sheet-metal plank to further spread the stress and increase the security.
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On a vehicle, I always secure my bolts with locking nuts -- 'Nylocs®' -- nuts with a nylon insert to grip the threads, hopefully reducing loosening from vibrating.
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I have zero experience with glue.
I seem to believe gluing relies on the integrity of each mating surface, while bolting relies on compression resistance of the entire material.

 

[Wandern]

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If I was me, I might swap the tank outlet to *ABOVE* the water level.

Not exactly sure what you mean here... wouldn't that cause it to suck air??

I would pull from a couple inches (5cm) from the bottom to...
A) reduce sludge in my stew, and

Eeeew! Although, some sludge in my soup may give it that special mouth feel.
I use tap water, or campsite faucets. I don't think there is much sludge buildup. Plus, after each trip, I drain the tank, and with the fill/drain inlet sitting right at the bottom that should suck out most particles. I also do a quick Chlorine wash once a year to keep things algae and bio-film free.
Also, being efficient and all, I want to be able to use near 100% of my water reservoir. Always leaving 2in in there would cut the 7 gal to maybe 5, not great.

B) reduce those inevitable leaks from vehicle vibration.

Hoping there won't be leaks. The tank has two small holes that have 3/4 bulkhead fittings with appropriate washers, and a larger porthole that had some over-pressure-something that I plugged. Hopefully all of this will be tight, as I do not want any leaking inside the car.

I could always add a dump outlet near the bottom of the tank, screwed and Teflon-taped.
Other than extremely rare cleaning, that dump outlet is permanent sealed.

I am thinking of combining the fill and drain function via the ball valve and garden hose connection. Connect the hose to a faucet and fill the container, or connect the hose and lay it on the ground to drain it all out. Also to be used for the annual cleaning - fill the hose, put it into a (clean) bucket with chlorinated water, lift that up and it will drain into the jug.

I would filter incoming water to, again, reduce sludge.
Why!
One of my hobbies is walking vehicle wrecking-yards aka 'dismantlers'.
After the aluminum skin is removed for recycling from a factory RecreateVehicle, the translucent water-tanks are visible for inspection.
Inevitably, I can find at least a couple-three inches (8cm+) of foul mud settled to the bottom of a fresh-water container.
Filtering incoming tends to catch most of that crud.

I think it depends a bit on your source water, as stated above. But of course, filtering water before it hits the tank is totally legit too.

In our introduction, we describe our primitive water 'system'.
We prefer minimal instead of complicated, because it's easier for Simple Minds [points to self] to fix/replace in our preferred rustic rural villages:
https://vanlivingforum.com/threads/expeditionvehicle-build.44908/#post-576110
.
In our introduction, we could add a section about worshing hands and cookware.
That new section would detail using a pair of spritz bottles, one with a sudsy solution, the other with a clear rinse.
Worshing hands takes an ounce or so (30ml), worshing a cast-iron skillet uses maybe triple that.
.
[edited to add]
So far, ZEP-brand commercial-rated spritz bottles hold-up pretty good.
And 'yes', because of their importance, we carry spares.

Yep, all great ideas, and there are many possibilities that may work for some and not others. The nice thing is that nothing is ever final, all a work in progress with constant changes and improvements (one hopes...).

 

[Wandern]

.
Instead of screws, I prefer bolts.
I like spreading the stress on each end of the bolt by using yuge fender-worshers.
To secure heavy loads such as our fresh-water five-gallon Pepsi kegs, I add a stout sheet-metal plank to further spread the stress and increase the security.
.
On a vehicle, I always secure my bolts with locking nuts -- 'Nylocs®' -- nuts with a nylon insert to grip the threads, hopefully reducing loosening from vibrating.
.
I have zero experience with glue.
I seem to believe gluing relies on the integrity of each mating surface, while bolting relies on compression resistance of the entire material.

I was thinking of cabinets, drawers and such... plywood sticks very well when mated with the proper glue (Tightbond II ftw).
Of course we would not glue the water container or refrigerator to anything.

 

[LargeMarge]

... I zeroed in on Mini-Vans... I felt silly driving to the grocery store or doctors appt in my maxed out camper.

Minivans are also not considered cool, so the general price range is a bit...

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a)
1993+/-.
We had a (1986?) Chevrolet Astro van.
4.3 V-6 through a 700R4 transmission, wheelbase unknown.
We acquired it half beat-to-death from a plumbing contractor.
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We changed fluids, filters, serpentine.
New tires including spare.
We tossed in some car-camping gear, and annually headed to Central America for surfing and SCUBA with our caravan chums.
After about three years of full-time live-aboard, we sold it for more than we paid.
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An aside:
In just one tiny village, we saw several Sprinter-type vans down for repairs, some awaiting entire engines from Florida and Arizona.
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Irreparable is another reason we prefer old and battered.
If it cannot be repaired, rusty and crusty makes it easier to walk away from it.
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Glancing through some adverts, 1980s Astro van prices look to be around a couple grand.
Hardly seems worth looking for one to rent 'to see if you like it'.
If I was me, I might:
* Buy it, use it, sell it to an aspiring/inspiring/expiring YouTuber.
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b)
We feel silly pretty much all the time.

 

[LargeMarge]

I was thinking of cabinets, drawers and such... plywood sticks very well when mated with the proper glue (Tightbond II ftw).
Of course we would not glue the water container or refrigerator to anything.

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Whichever adhesive you choose, the smart money would keep it separate from your hair-care products.
Pay close attention to this Public Service Announcement as we learn the difference:
www.vox.com/the-goods/22291160/tessica-brown-gorilla-glue-girl-tiktok-viral-surgery-manager
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[edited to add]
I am naming all my children 'Tessica'.
True fact.
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[edited to add]
Especially demonstrative is the spokes-model slapping her head, and it sounds like banging an empty fridge.
So... no hair 'molding-gel' in positions requiring industrial-strength longevity, OK?

 

[Wandern]

Ha! In some ways we're alike. Feeling silly and loving scuba diving. I am a bit envious of your travels and adventures, but of course, everything has its pro's and con's.

Perhaps in a few years we'll abandon the Minivan and go back to something larger for longer periods. Not sure I want to do without the backyard though.

Those Sprinters are really nice, but if one of the many sensors acts up and you're hundreds of miles away from the next Mercedes shop... That's why I went with a ProMaster before. Well, that, and the price.

 

[Wandern]

.
Whichever adhesive you choose, the smart money would keep it separate from your hair-care products.
Pay close attention to this Public Service Announcement as we learn the difference:
www.vox.com/the-goods/22291160/tessica-brown-gorilla-glue-girl-tiktok-viral-surgery-manager
.
.
[edited to add]
I am naming all my children 'Tessica'.
True fact.

Lol! What we do to become a star. Gives the term "Perm" a whole new meaning.
Staying away from the hundreds of bottles my wife/daughter are hording, even if I could probable complete a whole camper conversion with them.

 

[Wandern]

Since we're talking about hair-dos, random off topic post... anyone know this place? It's magical at night.

 

[LargeMarge]

Not...sure what you mean here... would...that cause it to suck air?...

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This illustration illustrates my concept, although I prefer both pipes (and their holes) to be above water-level.
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The illustration also shows the pressure difference between a couple inches/6cm of water above the LM-preferred 'high' pipe...
... and a LM-discouraged 'low' outlet at the bottom of the tank, straining to hold back the water weight of the entire tank...
... plus sploshing during maneuvers.

 

[Happy Camper]

They are using a 7 gallon jug. No pipes needed.

 

[Wandern]

Since I already have a few of the parts, yesterday I got into one of my favorite pastimes... playing with Sched 40 pieces. Let me share a pic of what I have so far, maybe that will clear up some of the sludge...



So, the exact position of the bulkheads should not matter, since they are bulkheads (and hopefully don't leak).

What you don't see is the inside of the container, where the left bulkhead has an elbow that goes all the way UP (for venting and overflow), while the right bulkhead has an elbow pointing DOWN. That one will have 3 functions - fill and drain (where the ball valve is) and well, the main connection to the pump and eventually faucet.

 

[maki2]

^ it boggles my mind why people want to make things way more complex than they need to be. But it seems to fuel those endorphins going into their pleasure receptors. For others that pleasure comes from finding easier as well as less expensive ways to do things. Of course some people simply can’t be bothered either way and just go for off the shelf, ready made solutions because the whole DIY concept is a bore that brings no pleasure to their life. .

 

[LargeMarge]

^ it boggles my mind why people want to make things way more complex than they need...

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[presses papyrus into soft clay tablet]
Me, neither!

 

[datac]

Did you pick a fridge yet ? I'm curious what your going to find in a 12v upright that works well. I had one of those 3 foot tall dorm style fridges (120v) in my trailer at first (temporary) and hated it for three reasons. One, no matter what you do, it seems your food is always falling out when you open the door after driving. Two, never had one where the freezer worked very good or worked at all, and three, because it was 120v, efficiency thru the inverter was obviously awful.

I've since moved to Iceco brand chest type fridges and am happy as a clam. Yes, you do have to dig out things once in a while (easier if you dont buy so dang much food to keep cool to start with). Super, super efficient, and cheaper to buy than any vertical 12v compressor fridge I found available.

 

[Wandern]

Did you pick a fridge yet ? I'm curious what your going to find in a 12v upright that works well. I had one of those 3 foot tall dorm style fridges (120v) in my trailer at first (temporary) and hated it for three reasons. One, no matter what you do, it seems your food is always falling out when you open the door after driving. Two, never had one where the freezer worked very good or worked at all, and three, because it was 120v, efficiency thru the inverter was obviously awful.

I've since moved to Iceco brand chest type fridges and am happy as a clam. Yes, you do have to dig out things once in a while (easier if you dont buy so dang much food to keep cool to start with). Super, super efficient, and cheaper to buy than any vertical 12v compressor fridge I found available.

Yes, I have decided on a Dometic NRX 80T. It is supposed to be very energy efficient, with about 45W when the compressor runs. It is on order.

Previously, I had a Vitrifrigo C115 which I loved. Perfect size, never had food fall out, the freezer worked perfectly (I take frozen smoothies and meals along), and it was also very energy efficient. Plus, it cooled down quickly, in less than an hour. Downsides were the cost, a cheap fan in the back which I replaced with a MagLev almost silent fan, and the tendency to build up ice around the freezer on longer trips in extremely hot weather (think Utah/AZ in Summer).

I have dealt with ice chests for many years, although not electric ones, and really hate fishing for something I want. Sure, if you don't fill them up much, it's a non-issue, but we're a bit diverse when it comes to food, so the fridge usually ends up very much stuffed to the gills...

 

[vanbrat]

I have 14 gallons of water available and if I am drinking it and it is questionable I have a filter pitcher for drinking water. I use gravity to move it from jug to whatever, plastic sink or pot or pitcher or whatever. The jug tips down when being used and tips back up to drive or close up the kitchen for the night. As far as gray water my dishes get thoroughly wiped down before washing with paper towels and dish water gets tossed on bushes or something. I know you want a pump, but that looks like it will take up a lot of valuable space. But to each their own priority's. I know I sure have mine.
I made a fold down attached table in my kitchen and after the first trip I took it out and put in a folding card table type thing we found on sale at Walmart. I found it much more convenient to use because it could go were ever I needed it to go. Instead of taking up an inch plus a bit for the leg it takes up 2 inches against the cabinet in the same place the fold up went. I use a skinny bungy type string to hold it in place while driving. The issues I had were the back corner was harder to get to. Both in the bottom and in the top cabinets, it just didn't feel strong/stable enough with it's one support leg. The attached table was just harder to deal with, now with the fold up unattached table I can move it into or out of the sun and if I want to it can stay out for us to use if we are done eating and need a place to play chess or cards or whatever. Sometimes we go places with no tables, and it is nice to have one we can move to use for eating at. It's a tiny table so not for more than 2 very friendly table companions' but that works for us. And as it was on sale it was way le$$ then plywood and much lighter. I had a sink in the first counter I made, but what a pain in the #$%! My counter got broken. (Don't ask how) So when I remade it, I just left out the sink and now use dish pans from the dollar store. That way if we are at a place with good sinks/dishwashing stations I take everything to the dishwashing station and don't have to heat up water. And no way would I not use my own dish pans. The table has more space than the counter so easier to wash dishes there too.
I was going for light weight so I got plywood that was to thin, so now my back corner is sagging a bit and my microwave is way to tilted and that will need to get fixed this year. So either frame it well or go for a stronger plywood. I used peg board for all upper walls that were not next to the bed area, and I hang up a lot of my tools there while I am cooking. I thought I had a good spot for paper towels, but it didn't work, and every place seems to have a problem too. So I am glad I didn't drill into anything to make a permanent spot that I can't change. I will make a good permanent set up once I figure that out.
I like the draw up but just thought you might like to hear from someone who has made so many changes to my space that is similar to what you are doing. I also have upper cabinets and I carry a TON of cooking gear 'cause I like to cook and love my kitchen gadgets. No way I could do with that small of storage space for all my goodies. My priority stuff

 

[Wandern]

Thank you for sharing your details/approach. Everyone is different, I enjoy learning something new every day and am very open to changes in general. ALWAYS a work in progress, as they say, it's the journey, not the destination, etc.

A water pump does not take up much space, say compared to 14gal of water. One can hide it in some difficult to access place as it hopefully doesn't need much attention once it is all plumbed in.
Here are the advantages as I see them... 1) No juggling jugs 2) No worries about gravity, place the heavy water containers as low as possible in the car for some improved cornering... and 3) Using a permanent water filter is just worth it to me, in some ways simpler than having a separate drinking water set up.

But to each their own, if that seems to complex, a tilting jug is perhaps a much better solution.

Planning to get 3/4" (or whatever they call it nowadays) plywood for the kitchen surface/cabinet/drawers, and 3/8" plywood for the bed platform, with some alu angles and legs for support.