Camping Rules and Regulations

[Morgana]

If somebody is "forced into it" then they are most likely too dysfunctional in general to be a responsible van-dweller.

Would that include Bob Wells when he started living in his vehicle?
Are you under the impression that everyone who loses their housing is dysfunctional and irresponsible?

 

[rruff]

"Losing your housing" doesn't force anything except the need to find another place to live. I don't think Bob was forced to live in a van, but if you have a link for his "origin story" I'd appreciate it.

Also... there's a difference between "most likely" and "everyone".

 

[Morgana]

It's in his book.

Neither one of us knows what % of people leave sticks-and-bricks housing for what reason.

"Finding another place to live" is exactly what they're doing. For some/many/whatever % you'd like to speculate, living in a van either is cheaper or requires less up-front $ (another huge issue for many) than finding un-wheeled housing ... or they hope it will be so.

If you'd feel more comfortable with "Are you under the impression that almost everyone who loses their sticks-and-bricks housing is dysfunctional and irresponsible?" I'd be fine with that too.

 

[WanderingRose]

You can feel “forced” if you feel you you have no other choice.

One can say “there are always other choices”, but that is a matter of perception.

If I remember correctly, Bob moved into his van when he separated/divorced, and couldn’t afford traditional housing for himself.

And what a leader of this movement he has been,

 

[rruff]

Neither one of us knows what % of people leave sticks-and-bricks housing for what reason.

"Finding another place to live" is exactly what they're doing. For some/many/whatever % you'd like to speculate, living in a van either is cheaper or requires less up-front $ (another huge issue for many) than finding un-wheeled housing ... or they hope it will be so.

I've rented a bedroom in someone's house, both in Mesa AZ where RE was cheap, and Redondo Beach, CA where it wasn't. I was making about $180k/yr at the time in today's money. I've worked low level jobs and shared tiny apartments as well. The only time in my life that I've ever "had my own place" is the last few years.

If someone is financially unable to pay rent for their apartment and are unwilling to consider A) moving, or B) sharing space, or C) getting a higher paying job.... then I have no sympathy. These days low level jobs start at $15/hr ($30k/yr) in fine towns that are not expensive. Functional people have these options... and would not be "forced" to live in their vehicle.

By your reasoning I guess I could say I was "forced" too, because I wanted to take an extended leave from work, and I wanted to do it cheap so I wouldn't drain my savings too much. Either the rent or the vehicle would need to go. I decided to keep the vehicle, and OMG... I was so glad I did... I absolutely loved camping in the wilderness!

One can say “there are always other choices”, but that is a matter of perception.

There are very obvious options that don't appear to be considered. It's a matter of reality, not perceptions or feelings.

Van living can be cheaper. It is definitely not easier though... not if you do it responsibly.

 

[Morgana]

There's a limit to how far you can argue from your personal experience. It's a big, big world out there and people encounter many different challenges. Just because you haven't experienced it yourself doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

There are several areas in life where I, too, have had intensive experience. I never kid myself that that alone means I'm an expert on those topics.

 

[rruff]

Would you name a few of these challenges?

 

[Morgana]

No. I'm withdrawing from this conversation because I think it just got silly. If you can't see the suffering, hardship, and dangers that less fortunate people suffer every day and that are amply and frequently covered in trustworthy sources, then nothing I can say will change your mind. If you want to feel like you "won" this whatever-it-is, go right ahead. But I was talking about real life and I can't take that question seriously.

 

[MGfromBC]

How is it that Jon Stewart posts relevant comments on the same day you go looking for them.
A lot of people define poverty in a lot of different ways. If a factory closes, putting a husband and wife with 2 kids out of work and unable to pay the mortgage, they are not going to rent a room in someone's house. There are things single people can do. There are things couples can do. Many of those options are not available to families with kids.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/8wgbshDrhnSwsEsX/

 

[rruff]

No. If you can't see the suffering, hardship, and dangers that less fortunate people suffer every day

Specifically one that would make living in a vehicle (vs a building) the only viable long term option?

 

[maki2]

"Losing your housing" doesn't force anything except the need to find another place to live. I don't think Bob was forced to live in a van, but if you have a link for his "origin story" I'd appreciate it.

Also... there's a difference between "most likely" and "everyone".

origin story
He is enough of a celebrity that there is a Wikipedia page devoted to him which details his “origin” including his childhood, his years in Anchorage and his transition into becoming a known celebrity figure. You could have found his origin story in under two seconds time (on a decent connection speed) if you had entered his name into a search engine. You do need to scroll down more than an inch on a cell phone screen to see the wiki link.

 

[Fork King]

origin story
He is enough of a celebrity that there is a Wikipedia page devoted to him which details his “origin” including his childhood, his years in Anchorage and his transition into becoming a know celebrity figure including his role ina movie.

Anyone can edit a Wikipedia page to tell anyone anything. Does not make it 100% truthful.

 

[towboater]

"Places where they cannot decide what you can and cannot do on your own land."
Hmm, I didn't think such a place still existed in the US. Not asking you to do all the research here, but might you be able to give at least one example of where such a place exists? (Just an honest straightforward question; I'm wanting to learn here, - not score points - Thank you

My county has 0 building permits on any rural parcels. Plus if 10 acres or more no septic requirements.

 

[maki2]

Anyone can edit a Wikipedia page to tell anyone anything. Does not make it 100% truthful.

It is close enough for the request for an “origin story” .

As to his time in Anchorage and where he worked and how he lived, that reads very true. I myself was living in Anchorage during the same time period but I a little older and was in college when I moved there when he was still in high school.

 

[NctryBen]

The problem I see with many vehicle dwellers is they don’t heed the warning of needing a good emergency fund and when they use it do not have a good way to replenish it. Vehicles can be kinda pricey to maintain. Bob usually did a good job of including that. But many did a better job ignoring it. Same with bathroom issues. Bob and others do many videos how to take care of their business. But people come up with their own ways that kind of makes it hard for others. I guess my point is that I think Bob tried real hard to educate the proper ways and what you really need to have and do. But people… and I mean a few really made it bad for the folks who try very hard to keep their impact to a minimum out there.

 

[rruff]

He is enough of a celebrity that there is a Wikipedia page devoted to him which details his “origin” including his childhood, his years in Anchorage and his transition into becoming a known celebrity figure.

This what I found on wikipedia about when he started van living, but it doesn't say anything about him being forced.

"After he and his second wife divorced, Wells began living in a truck camper, followed by a work van, and most recently, a four-wheel-drive ambulance."

 

[shadowmoss]

I believe he said that between child support, food and rent he could only afford 2. It was a choice, but he was in a situation where he had to make a choice.

 

[BelgianPup]

Would that include Bob Wells when he started living in his vehicle?
Are you under the impression that everyone who loses their housing is dysfunctional and irresponsible?

I suspect that's an assumption on your part.

 

[BelgianPup]

To me this all seems like rules are targeting the wrong people, while ignoring the people who are actually making a mess. The ones turning the forests into trash dumps are a different crowd entirely.

But they are the ones who are most visible.

 

[abnorm]

As the OP I don't care that this thread wanders......................But back to rules/regulations & Money

We're next door to NEVADA.......we spend some time there......their STATE PARK system is something "Special"

For NON-Residents camping in State Park primitive sites (Walker River includes Flush toilets and Showers)
.... the price is $10 entrance fee and $10 camping fee PER NITE................No discounts

That's OK for a couple nites (with the Showers)..................otherwise it's too expensive for us

The CALIFORNIA Forest Service Campgrounds prices vary..........

Howard Gulch was $15.............$7.50 w/access pass.......Vault toilet/Trash/Water
Ash Creek was FREE..............Vault toilet/NO Trash
Currently at Laufman Campground............$10 nite......$5 w/pass.....Vault toilet/NO Trash