Mileage vs. age

[MrNoodly]

A friend has a Chevy van that's twelve years older than my Chevy van yet has 40k fewer miles. Despite the lower miles, the older van has needed all sorts of repairs. Radiator, steering box, pitman arm, idler arm, brake master cylinder, new vacuum lines, a universal joint, an axle bearing. The power driver seat doesn't work. The window seals are rotting. A door lock refuses to respond to repairs.

Metal fatigues as it ages. Things start to wear faster. Some bits and pieces don't need to be used to go bad. They do it just from existing longer.

Sure, each vehicle has been maintained, used or abused differently. There are no hard and fast rules. There are trends, though. That's why I would pick a newer vehicle over an older one if mileage isn't radically different. You might get a sweet price on that 15-20 year old van only to spend a crapload keeping it running.

But that's just my view of things.

 

[Seraphim]

A friend has a Chevy van that's twelve years older than my Chevy van yet has 40k fewer miles. Despite the lower miles, the older van has needed all sorts of repairs. Radiator, steering box, pitman arm, idler arm, brake master cylinder, new vacuum lines, a universal joint, an axle bearing. The power driver seat doesn't work. The window seals are rotting. A door lock refuses to respond to repairs.

Metal fatigues as it ages. Things start to wear faster. Some bits and pieces don't need to be used to go bad. They do it just from existing longer.

Sure, each vehicle has been maintained, used or abused differently. There are no hard and fast rules. There are trends, though. That's why I would pick a newer vehicle over an older one if mileage isn't radically different. You might get a sweet price on that 15-20 year old van only to spend a crapload keeping it running.

But that's just my view of things.

+1. Especially rubber based parts which decay with age, even if sitting and not running. Mileage may be a possible indicator of engine wear, but suggests nothing about the rest of the vehicle.

 

[GypsySilver]

You might get a sweet price on that 15-20 year old van only to spend a crapload keeping it running.

That has been in my thoughts too. I've decided not to buy the 93 Van and keep looking for something newer. I'm not in a hurry and figured it might be best.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

... fatigues as it ages. Things start to wear faster. Some bits and pieces don't need to be used to go bad. They do it just from existing longer ..

There for a minute, I thought you were talking about me!
-- Spiff

 

[Seraphim]

There for a minute, I thought you were talking about me!
-- Spiff

Lol

 

[SternWake]

As always, a vehicles condition is dependent on how the owner kept up with maintenance, and the level of neglect it received. as well as the environment in which it received the neglect.

Best a buyer can do it look for clues as to how well or how poorly it was kept up with.

If a buyer does not have the skills to make a determination, then pay a mechanic or do a whole bunch of research

 

[SweetMarie1965]

This is worrisome... thanks for this thread. It's definitely something to think about.

 

[user 423]

Sure, each vehicle has been maintained, used or abused differently. That's why I would pick a newer vehicle over an older one if mileage isn't radically different. You might get a sweet price on that 15-20 year old van only to spend a crapload keeping it running.

Good points. Since most of us are on a budget, finding that elusive 'sweet spot' between high car payments + higher depreciation vs. high repair bills and added stress, keeps us on our toes.

 

[highdesertranger]

good one space man. I generally agree with a newer is more reliable especially for non mechanically inclined people. however newer vehicles are basically throw away vehicles once they are done they are done. with all the push button computer controlled dodads, it gets way to expensive to repair them once they are at the end of there life. my 2 cents. highdesertranger

 

[66788]

I disagree with you on this issue HDR. I find the newer vehicles (Post 1996- OBDII) to be more reliable, better performing, more economical and just all around better values.

They are not easier to work on, but require a lot less maintenance. My mistake was not following my own advice and getting an older van, for no other reason than the fuel economy.

 

[highdesertranger]

well, we can agree to disagree 66788. I did say for non mechanical people newer vehicles are better. when you wear out one of these newer vehicles what are you going to do? with all the plastic that rots. what are you going to do when that obdII reaches the end of it's life(it's not going to live forever) and the hundreds of feet of wire and sensors that go with it. I will tell you what happens it goes to a junkyard and you buy another. if that works for you great. for me my truck is 37 years old and expect it to keep going for another 37 years. of course it's not as fast, not as comfy, doesn't have all the push button/power doodads. but it serves me well and as taken me wherever I have dared to take it. for a lot less money than the newer vehicles. I have also bailed out a lot of those newer computer control vehicles, in the boonies. so I say, whatever floats your boat is great. highdesertranger

 

[offroad]

It's a real interesting debate. Old fixable mechanical vehicles with classic parts that can be found or even machined. Versus new disposable vehicles with limited parts. Would be nice to see some kind of parts availability chart for makes-models.

 

[MrNoodly]

I think the Old Fixable vs New Throwaway is a false dichotomy.

 

[coolmom42]

+1. Especially rubber based parts which decay with age, even if sitting and not running. Mileage may be a possible indicator of engine wear, but suggests nothing about the rest of the vehicle.

I agree.

---

well, we can agree to disagree 66788. I did say for non mechanical people newer vehicles are better. when you wear out one of these newer vehicles what are you going to do? with all the plastic that rots. what are you going to do when that obdII reaches the end of it's life(it's not going to live forever) and the hundreds of feet of wire and sensors that go with it. I will tell you what happens it goes to a junkyard and you buy another. if that works for you great. for me my truck is 37 years old and expect it to keep going for another 37 years. of course it's not as fast, not as comfy, doesn't have all the push button/power doodads. but it serves me well and as taken me wherever I have dared to take it. for a lot less money than the newer vehicles. I have also bailed out a lot of those newer computer control vehicles, in the boonies. so I say, whatever floats your boat is great. highdesertranger

Good point. BUT your truck has been in pretty much continual use, and lovingly maintained. That's a far cry from one of the same age that has sat unused, only for someone to jump in and drive it a few hundred miles or so, every 6 months. And the latter is exactly how many older vehicles get to be low mileage for their age.

I would rather have a newer vehicle that's been run up and down the highway all its life. That's how newer vehicles get to be high mileage, and highway miles never hurt a modern vehicle that was even halfway maintained.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I think the environment in which a vehicle is driven is the clincher, if both are reasonably maintained. I would be reluctant to buy a van that has seen 20 years of salt and snow, but would look closely at one that has lived it's entire life in dry summer conditions. Mileage is important but too low can be as much of a problem as very high,

high mileage may not strain a modern engine if driven on the highway but there is more than an engine to consider, other parts still wear out, brakes, transmission, suspension, tires, exhausts, water pumps, alternators, batteries etc

 

[jdsackett]

I agree to an extent. A carb will never get the mileage computer controlled fi will. A carb won't have the power At high altitudes, carbs will not have the power comp controlled fi will. On the other hand, carbs are also pretty dependable once properly jetted and set. Generally speaking they will also have a distributor instead of coil packs, or whatever means any particular unit uses to time spark.
That said, how much time do you spend going over 7000 foot passes? You can compromise and jet it for a happy medium for how you travel. Distributors can be re-curved. Have it done by a tuner, or if you have the tools and skills, it isn't rocket science. I had an old 77 corvette that was a very early attempt at smog motors burning unleaded gas. It took some fiddling, but after jetting the carb, recurving the distributor, i gained 13 hp and darn near 4 mpg.
Both have their up and down sides. Injectors don't last forever and can be a pita to replace, especially in a motorhome where access can be confined to say the least. Throttle body bushings car wear out, in turn sucking too much air and until you replace them you will never get a decent tune. Ask me how I know.
If an ecm(Engine control module) dies, call a tow truck, you're dead in the water, and they ain't cheap. There are several little valves and other devices such as 02 sensors and other things,which won't shut you down, but will throw a code. 02 sensors start at around $50 and go up, plus installation if you can't do it yourself. Comp controlled vehicles are pretty much trouble and maintenance free when everything is happy. And if you are going that route, the poster is correct, get 96 or newer.
A carbed engine is a little more forgiving. The carb may get crapped up, but will usually run, however badly and you can limp into the next town where parts are available. Points and condenser can die, but are cheap and a good idea to carry spares. They are simple. If it dies, there are very few things that can go wrong. It either isn't getting spark, gas, or getting both but at the wrong time. And variations of the above of course.
At the end of the day, it comes down to you. An older vehicle can be a terrific buy if you can do your own repairs. If you want to set it and forget it, probably not the way to go. Me....I like kiss. But there are several billion people on this planet, and no 2 are alike.
When buying used, you are buying condition. Regardless of your choice of vehicles. There are some good buys out there if you do your due diligence.

 

[jdsackett]

Mr Noodly.....I visited your website.........Very nicely done..thank you. Being an old desert rat myself, I can closely relate. Kudos

 

[idn88]

This debate will rage forever, but I really don't understand why. The new "computer controlled doo-dads" really don't do anything different in the end than a disti and points, they just do it in a different way. I will agree that parts for new are more expensive, however half the time you plug a code reader into them and they tell you exactly what is wrong, replace the part, good to go.

To each their own. 10 years ago I would have agreed on older being better, however I have owned my current, computer controlled vehicle from brand new. It now has 175,000 miles, and has been by far the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned, and has not needed any major parts replaced at all.

 

[MrNoodly]

The original intent of this thread was to make the point that you can't just go by mileage when choosing a vehicle. If you're NOT mechanically inclined, if you DO fear spending money to have someone else fix a series of problems -- and highdesertranger isn't around to fix it for you out of the goodness of his wrench loving heart -- then be careful of that low mileage twenty year old van. On the other hand, if you're a gearhead, buy anything that strikes your fancy and have fun working on it.

 

[highdesertranger]

thanks mrnoodly, I think that was a compliment. I did state, I believe in this thread that if you are not mechanically inclined a newer vehicle is the way to go. just be aware that once the computer controlled vehicles reach about 15-20 years old expect the vehicle to start nickel and diming you, this is on top of the usual stuff that wears out. I am old school and go by the school of thought that if something is not there it can't break. in other words if I don't have an o2 sensor I will never have to replace an o2 sensor. simplicity is best in my book. highdesertranger