Hello, and gas mileage question

[RvNaut]

For sharts-n-giggles, we read RecreateVehicle forums such as IRV2.
'Those people' boast about covering six hundred miles a day, driving at 75mph or quicker, paying a couple hundred fedbux a night at a resort...
... with something called 'full hook ups' whatever that is.

.... that one gave me a chuckle.. I am with you... I plod along as not only is it cheaper on the gas budget, it also means less wear and tear on the rig... although, the jostling I put the dear thing through going where I go makes sure the relays and other connections sty connected... ahem..
Gas mileage is.. abysmal for me.. it is my own fault for choosing such a mammoth beast. In climbing a few passes on my way over to the North Rim from Colorado I was down to less than 4mpg, but one must also consider the impact of 2 tons rolling down hill, at which times we are allowed to reach the scary speed of 65mph...... in return for bending over at the pump, I have enough room ( just) for all the crap I didn't manage to sell or give/throw away.. to have down sized as fas as I have was a huge victory, and yes, I still have too much stuff.

I am apt to put in long days at the wheel. I crashed at 6pm in Durango, got up at 22am and arrived at the North Rim at 3pm.. I do love driving at night for the sheer lack of traffic... despite the risks...

 

[jacqueg]

I do short days and also poke along at around 60.

Me and my van are both too old for anything else!

 

[FredW]

I'd absolutely keep the T100 if it runs good, and build a bigger shell for it. That's really an awesome truck. MPG will probably drop to the high teens, but nothing you can buy will be better, and probably much worse... like 10 or so. If you had a higher budget you may get high teens with a modern van with a V6, but it's going to cost too much. And you will lose any offroad capability... if that bothers you.

If you are interested we can talk about simple and quick ways to build an aero camper (single sheet ply, stitch and glue style). You've already built one, so I know you are handy. A cabover sleeping berth results in a huge improvement in space for two people.

The problem I have with building a larger camper, besides the actual doing it, of course, is the weight. Except for the rear doors, which are 1/2" ply, the sheathing is 1/4" ply over 1"x2" framing (about 4 pieces, I think). I epoxy taped the corners. The framing for the 3'x6' top hatch and the rear pullout over the tailgate add a little extra weight, with the whole thing probably being about 200 lbs., maybe less. Part of the light weight is because of the slanting sides going up to an about 3'6" top.

It's strong enough for what it does but when I think of something strong enough for cabover sleeping (along with a wider roof, less aerodynamic), I can't help but think that that would add a lot of weight, maybe double of what mine is. I really love my T-100 and I would hate to get rid of it, but I don't think they're made to carry much weight, even though it has an 8' bed and is pretty much full 1/2 ton pickup in size. I noticed a couple of years ago while driving over the Sierras that I had to go pretty slowly uphill, and I don't think another 2 or 3 hundred pounds and the extra windage would be so good, especially if I were to use the space the way I'd want, with some sort of dinette arrangement, more storage devices, and the like.

 

[rruff]

Which engine does it have? 4wd? Manual?

I added ~2,000 lbs to a '84 2wd with 2.4L and 5spd. Note, it only weighed 2,500 lbs stock! Being loath to spend money I didn't upgrade the suspension and tires the way I should have... and I should have regeared it as well. But it got me around just fine. I built the camper with XPS and wood slats core and 1/10" luan skins, with an outer fiberglass layer. It was very solid and not that heavy empty (~700 lbs), but not aero. Driving slow is the best way to save gas.

If you keep your load to ~1,500 lbs and do proper suspension and tire upgrades, your T100 will handle the weight fine.

I was proposing that the plywood would be curved to make it more aero, and give it better structural stability. If you really want to minimize weight though, I'd suggest something similar only with 3/4-1" 25 psi XPS with wood slats embedded, and fiberglass. Do the inside surfaces first in pieces, then lay up the outside once assembled. The cabover floor should be 2" core for strength and stiffness.

 

[bullfrog]

^^^ That is a really nice looking build! Cab over “beds” are heavy but can be used for light storage. There is a foamie build on tnttt.com on an older Toyota Tacoma that was stand up height made from 2” foam with only 2 - 2”x 6”x 10’ long boards running the entire length of the sides and cab over to aid in aerodynamics and support the foam I believe. Poor Man’s Fiberglass can be modified to be made super strong.

 

[rruff]

Poor Man’s Fiberglass can be modified to be made super strong.

I made some samples and did some tests of PMF. At an equivalent weight to fiberglass it is nowhere near as strong vs impact or bending, it creeped like crazy (put a weight on it and it will just keep sagging)... and there isn't even much cost savings. It is nicer to work with, but it's more like a heavy duty coating than a structural material... it doesn't compare to fiberglass.

 

[bullfrog]

^^^Results may vary! Lol!!! My several year old topper took a reciprocating saw, sledge hammer and most of a morning to demolish! You are correct no where near as strong as fiberglass but Harbor Freight drop cloths, oops paint and TiteBond glue all which clean up with water and require no further sanding and coating make for cheap easy experiments. My original camper is over 7 years old and holding up better to the harsh desert elements than my 4 year old manufactured Forest River camper. My attempts at fiberglass have never lived up to my expectations due to my limited experience, ability and the fact I didn’t want to deal with harmful chemicals, dust and mess. PMF is basically arts and crafts skills that last a long time but not near as long as properly done fiberglass. Again I agree with you and I use PMF basically to hold structures together and water proof them. I do believe PMF used with cheap or recycled structure like hollow core doors can provide a cheap topper build for a pickup bed that will work well beyond most peoples expectations, it did mine! tnttt.com continues to experiment and improve their foamies forum.

 

[Taj]

As a long time fan of CheapRVLiving, I've been mulling over buying a van for years. I built a camper top on my Toyota T100 pickup about 10 years ago. My wife and I have used it for many trips, once down to the end of Baja (we live in Northern California) and many times to Southern California, Arizona, and northern Sonora. It's tall, with some cabover storage space, and has a hinged top with mosquito netting to allow standing room, and even has a back that pulls out over the tailgate But, because I built it with slanting sides to resist side winds and allow a narrower (and easier to build) top, it's just too small inside. Sort of like a wagon with standing room, not much for two people.

I hate to give up the good gas mileage of my T100 (about 22 mpg with the topper), but we need something larger. I've been dithering for years because of trying to balance good gas mileage of newer vehicles against the higher cost of a newer van. The geography of our travelling always involves at least 1000 miles of round trip, and that's just for getting started: often it would be more like a 2000 mile round trip or more. It's not just the money, but also the bad ecology of using so much gas.

What I would like to find is a van under $7k with nothing inside it or maybe up to $10k with some amenities. But at the same time I would like it to get at least 15 mpg, and not be likely to break down very much , given that I'm 78 years old with a tricky back. Part of the problem for me is that I don't know much about how gas mileage has varied over the years in vans and that I have trouble finding good information about that on the internet. I know gas mileage has improved over the years, but I don't know the details.

So, I'd love to get some responses and suggestions, and I'm sorry for being so long-winded.

Fred

 

[Taj]

I just traded in my 2013 dodge caravan that up to 24 mpg, to a high top dodge promaster.. which gets 13-15 mpg… it’s an adjustment, but what I’m trading it for is the ability to actually sit up and now stand inside of it. So it’s a matter of knowing what you gain verses what you have to give up. If you comfortable with that idea then trade it, if not then keep what your happiest with.

 

[rruff]

And those Promasters are about as good as you'll get. Sprinters are a hair better, but then you have to buy diesel.

On a budget, just look for a not-too-old Express or E-series in good condition. MPG will be only slightly less.

 

[RearViewMirror]

For fuel mileage? I can tell you what not to buy. We purchased a completely loaded 2022 MB 4WD Sprinter 144. It is converted with every option available. And we have a lot of money in this rig. We didn't buy it for fuel mileage. Around town? We are lucky to get 12 mpg. On the highway? If we are lucky we "might" get 16-17 mpg under the right conditions. But... It is lifted 5" over a stock 2WD and running on E Rated KO2 all terrain tires and an upgraded suspension. So it's a trade off of where do we want to take it to camp off grid or do we to go to go for better fuel mileage? The ability to take it to the places we want to go outweighs the reduction in fuel mileage "for us". Plus, it weighs 9500 lbs and is basically a brick going down the road. So I didn't expect good fuel mileage. And it didn't disappoint in that department lol.

 

[rruff]

Around town? We are lucky to get 12 mpg. On the highway? If we are lucky we "might" get 16-17 mpg under the right conditions.

That's actually really good for a loaded and lifted Sprinter. But you are also paying a "diesel tax" in more ways than one.

 

[WanderingRose]

I have an older ClassB on a Sprinter chassis and I get up to 25mpg, keeping speeds down and on secondary roads.

Diesel is more expensive, that’s true, but these engines are workhorses if taken care of.

 

[RearViewMirror]

That's actually really good for a loaded and lifted Sprinter. But you are also paying a "diesel tax" in more ways than one.

It's really not bad considering. Honestly, this is about what I expected when we bought it. We have found the "sweet spot" for this van is around 65 mph. Anything above that and it starts to drop off some. Of course there are a variety of factors that come into play while traveling down the freeway. But I can say with almost certainty, we will never see 20+ MPG. Around town is obviously where it suffers. The issue is, everything we need around our house is within a couple miles. Since this is now our daily driver, I've had to adjust my driving patterns. Since it is a diesel, if we just hop into it and go where we need to go, the engine never even comes close to getting up to operating temperature. So I find myself going out of my way just to get it up to operating temperature. Stop and go traffic plays havoc with fuel mileage. But I suppose that goes with any non hybrid vehicle. But, there is a reason we wanted the diesel. If it is taken care of, it "should" last for a very long time. The same reason we went with the 4WD. We will either need it when the snow starts falling in Colorado (or other places) or we will need it to reach some of the out of the way places we plan on boondocking. This isn't a "rock crawler" by any stretch of the imagination. Nor did we buy it for that reason. Anyone that knows anything about 4WD Sprinters know their limitations. The main issue being an open diff. and not having a "true" shift on the fly 4WD system. As long as you know those limitations before buying one, you won't be disappointed. You just have to be proactive. Know when to put it in 4WD "before" you actually need it. But it's better to have it and not use it than to not have it and need it. Piece of mind is the main thing.

I find myself watching two things constantly. Making sure the DEF doesn't get below half a tank and keeping an eye on the diesel particle filter. DEF is easy since I keep the DEF gauge permanently at the bottom of the center instrument screen. The DPF requires a little more planning (right now). Since we bought a Sprinter with all of the upgraded options, the center screen in instrument panel allows me to switch to all different functions of the van. One of the screens I can pick is the DPF and what % it's sitting at whenever I need. It's sitting at 24% right now so I have a ways to go before it goes into its self regen process. But once it gets into the mid to high 90%, I know that I have to plan on at least a 30 min drive to allow it to go through the regen process and also give it enough time to cool the exhaust back down. The regen process, once it starts, takes about 12 mins to complete at highway speeds. It also heats the exhaust up to around 1400 degrees F. So about 30 mins of driving allows for the full regen process and also allows for it to cool back off to normal operating temperatures.

I understand that the vast majority of people can / do spend way less money on a rig than we did. Honestly? We could have probably done that ourselves. But, considering we will be living in this full time for the foreseeable future? I'd rather have every creature comfort that we could have. Did we need a completely loaded out Sprinter with the full size MBUX system, 3 memory adjustable setting, heated leather seats, etc...? No... Not even close. All of the built in safety features? Yes. But I will say it is nice to have. That's not even accounting for the interior of the van and all of its creature comforts and the ability to stay off grid for as long as we can make 21 gals of fresh water last.