Hello, and gas mileage question

[FredW]

As a long time fan of CheapRVLiving, I've been mulling over buying a van for years. I built a camper top on my Toyota T100 pickup about 10 years ago. My wife and I have used it for many trips, once down to the end of Baja (we live in Northern California) and many times to Southern California, Arizona, and northern Sonora. It's tall, with some cabover storage space, and has a hinged top with mosquito netting to allow standing room, and even has a back that pulls out over the tailgate But, because I built it with slanting sides to resist side winds and allow a narrower (and easier to build) top, it's just too small inside. Sort of like a wagon with standing room, not much for two people.

I hate to give up the good gas mileage of my T100 (about 22 mpg with the topper), but we need something larger. I've been dithering for years because of trying to balance good gas mileage of newer vehicles against the higher cost of a newer van. The geography of our travelling always involves at least 1000 miles of round trip, and that's just for getting started: often it would be more like a 2000 mile round trip or more. It's not just the money, but also the bad ecology of using so much gas.

What I would like to find is a van under $7k with nothing inside it or maybe up to $10k with some amenities. But at the same time I would like it to get at least 15 mpg, and not be likely to break down very much , given that I'm 78 years old with a tricky back. Part of the problem for me is that I don't know much about how gas mileage has varied over the years in vans and that I have trouble finding good information about that on the internet. I know gas mileage has improved over the years, but I don't know the details.

So, I'd love to get some responses and suggestions, and I'm sorry for being so long-winded.

Fred

 

[user 423]

The older RWD vans with high tops that you can stand up in won't get very good MPG. I have a Ford Econoline with a medium displacement V8 and a mid-high top and the best I've got was 17MPG and usually avg. 15-16 on trips. A high-top would get a little less. The newer vans with V6's would get better MPG and you may be able to find something decent in that price range. All used van prices have gone up and the standup versions are in high demand. If you only take one trip per year, the fuel cost wouldn't be too terrible.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[jacqueg]

So, I'd love to get some responses and suggestions, and I'm sorry for being so long-winded.

Fred

My 2001 V6 ford econoline van runs around 17 mpg.

I paid $4700 for it three years ago. Besides regular maintenance, I've had both major brake work and major front-end work done on it, which I don't think is outrageous for a 20-yo van.

 

[FredW]

The older RWD vans with high tops that you can stand up in won't get very good MPG. I have a Ford Econoline with a medium displacement V8 and a mid-high top and the best I've got was 17MPG and usually avg. 15-16 on trips. A high-top would get a little less. The newer vans with V6's would get better MPG and you may be able to find something decent in that price range. All used van prices have gone up and the standup versions are in high demand. If you only take one trip per year, the fuel cost wouldn't be too terrible.

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you! What year is your van? I don't know much about engine sizes, but is it like a e250 or e350? I guess that's like a 3/4 ton or 1 ton.

 

[FredW]

My 2001 V6 ford econoline van runs around 17 mpg.

I paid $4700 for it three years ago. Besides regular maintenance, I've had both major brake work and major front-end work done on it, which I don't think is outrageous for a 20-yo van.

Thanks! No, that sounds pretty good. I've had Toyotas for years and am used to thinking that they hold up better than American makes, and, in fact, I've hardly ever had to do any repairs to them. The T100, for example, has about 140k miles and I've never done more than keeping it maintained. So, have you ever had any unpleasant surprises with your van? The repairs you mention sound like not a big deal at all, unless they suddenly needed to be done when you're hundreds of miles away from home and on some kind of schedule. That's more what I'm worried about, maybe unrealistically.

 

[user 423]

Thank you! What year is your van? I don't know much about engine sizes, but is it like a e250 or e350? I guess that's like a 3/4 ton or 1 ton.

It's a '93 E150 (1/2-ton) conversion van with 151k mis. and has a 5.8L engine. It's been pretty reliable and I've just had to spend on brake and exhaust work. The fuel pump,radiator & alternator also have been replaced but I was able to do the work myself. That's not too bad for a 30 y.o. vehicle. The Ford V8's changed around '97 when they went to a 'modular' design that had some problems because they went to aluminum heads. It took Ford until 2008 to fully fix the problems (google "Ford sparkplug problems").

I drove several older Dodge vans before and had good luck but the old RWD vans quit production in 2003. In general the American vans are reliable but it depends on how well they are maintained.

Here's an old thread with some info about vans. It's kind of dated and there are newer vans that may be in the $7k-$10k range that it doesn't cover much. The general consensus is that Chevy had the best (older)vans. The Promaster and Transit vans (that I'm not familiar with) are what you'll see more of in the VanLife world these days:

https://vanlivingforum.com/threads/info-on-common-vans.16235/
PS: I've owned several of the older 4-cyl Toyota PUs and Celicas and I agree that they are great vehicles.

 

[jacqueg]

Thanks! No, that sounds pretty good. I've had Toyotas for years and am used to thinking that they hold up better than American makes, and, in fact, I've hardly ever had to do any repairs to them. The T100, for example, has about 140k miles and I've never done more than keeping it maintained. So, have you ever had any unpleasant surprises with your van? The repairs you mention sound like not a big deal at all, unless they suddenly needed to be done when you're hundreds of miles away from home and on some kind of schedule. That's more what I'm worried about, maybe unrealistically.

My van was, unusually, not a tradesperson's van, so it was in great mechanical shape when I got it. And I am religious about oil changes nd not using it hard. 160K miles when I bought it, now coming up on 260K after 3.5 years on the road. I'm financially prepared for major engine or transmission work, but there's no sign of either on the horizon.

Mechanical things break. Sometimes you get warning, sometimes it's sudden. Just the nature of the beast.

 

[aytee]

Here's an option that maybe you haven't considered - slow down! Maybe you don't need to do those 2,000-mile trips. Get something you really enjoy and then have slower, shorter, and more satisfying journeys (IMO). Those scenic back roads, stopping to smell the roses.

I went thru the same conundrum - my first 5 years of "van living" was in my Toyota Corolla. I then decided to upgrade with the thought of getting a trailer, but the pain of deciding to forgo the 35-40 mpg for 15-20, plus the more expensive tires, maintenance, etc. was a hard thing to go thru!

Ended up with a Pathfinder, still haven't got to the trailer part yet, but when I am spending too much on gas I stop for a while. Your situation is different, not being a full-timer, but your vacations can be just as much fun.

 

[USNvet]

Not that they are easy to find these days, but a 10plus year old Sprinter might be considered if you happen upon one. Mine is a 2011 I bought for $14k when just under 3 years old, but with 180k miles put on the 3 liter diesel by a trucking company that used it for short hauls. Since it is a 3500 dually with a lower rear end gear ratio, it "only" gets 17mpg, but has plenty of power. I've heard most of the 2500 models with single wheel rear axles get 20-24 mpg with the same engine, and very new models with 4 cylinders go substantially farther on a gallon.

 

[Happy Camper]

This doesn't quite fit your needs but it's the info I can give first hand. I had a 1991 GMC conversion van with a 350 in it, and I got 14-18 mpg with it consistently. It wasn't a high top, and from what I remember reading on some threads here back in the day was that if your have a high high top you're probably looking at roughly a 2 mpg hit vs no high top.

The upside is that a 91 or similar year is relatively cheap and fairly dead easy to get it worked on and cheap for parts. You can even buy one cheap and spend the money saved on having the engine and trans gone through thoroughly. Every mechanic with anything at all can work on them. So if something does go wrong, and you have a repair fund, you'll be able to find someone to help.

Not saying this is what you should do. But it is a viable option.

 

[Happy Camper]

I do want to add that there has been more than one thread referring the mpg if various members rigs and whatever year, make, and model, weight of the vehicle with installs and so on. The 2000s Chevy express vans came out looking very good when paired with the 8 cylinder. Do a search and you'll see.


I like using https://www.fuelly.com/ to see what others are actually getting for mileage. Then you have to remember that you're adding in weight, so power might matter. A lot of the people giving their mileage will say what they use their vehicle for and how they drive it. That's also helpful if you take the time.

Good luck!

 

[LargeMarge]

mulling...dithering for years... would like it to get at least 15 mpg... long-winded.

Fred

.
a)
Our ExpeditionVehicle rarely gets better than 14mpg.
We rarely travel more than a hundred miles a month.
Fuel is a very minor part of our budget.
.
2003, we converted a 1996 Ford CF8000 commercial truck to our concept of an ExpeditionVehicle.
Our type of rig meets your needs:
* interior height of about seven feet, plenty of room to stretch
* reliable -- nearly two decades full-time live-aboard, zero break-downs
* mosquito screen on the windows.
.
And no need to apologize about dithering and mulling.
The only way we were able to complete our conversion in seven (7) days:
* a half-century of make-do camping in lesser rigs, plus
* a year and a hundred thousand miles delivering RecreateVehicles manufacturer-to-dealer and dealer-to-shows.
This background/experience formed our RequirementsStatement... the bits-n-bobs sharts-n-giggles of stuff to leave out.
.
We left out stuff from our conversion because it:
* had a tendency to wear-out, break, or be single-purpose
* required management -- maintaining, repair, stowing, locking, watching over, remembering to find then read the instructions/check-list.
.
b)
Long-winded?
Nah.
I can out-wind you with one hand tied behind my back.
Blind-folded.
On a dark and stormy night.

 

[user 423]

160K miles when I bought it, now coming up on 260K after 3.5 years on the road.

Wow. That's a lot of 'low-cost' camping

 

[maki2]

Of course when it comes to suspension repairs it is not just about the miles. It is also about rough roads and heavy loads. You can beat a vehicle to death with off road driving, towing, load hauling, etc if it does not have a heavy duty suspension.

 

[eDJ_]

In the top link in my signature line "Van Conversion" there is a page on "A Bug-Out Car". On that page there is information regarding a "vapor tank" for running the engine on gasoline vapor. This is experimental stuff. There need to be a stainless steel screen flame arrest between the tubes from the tank to the carb or fuel injection intake. If fuel injection the fuse for the fuel pump needs to be puled such that the fuel injectors do not continue injecting fuel into the engine.

I know one guy who runs one of these on his riding lawn mower. He has two acres to mow with his 25 hp ZTR mower.

This video shows one of these vapor tanks in operation.

 

[FredW]

.
a)
Our ExpeditionVehicle rarely gets better than 14mpg.
We rarely travel more than a hundred miles a month.
Fuel is a very minor part of our budget.
.
2003, we converted a 1996 Ford CF8000 commercial truck to our concept of an ExpeditionVehicle.
Our type of rig meets your needs:
* interior height of about seven feet, plenty of room to stretch
* reliable -- nearly two decades full-time live-aboard, zero break-downs
* mosquito screen on the windows.
.
And no need to apologize about dithering and mulling.
The only way we were able to complete our conversion in seven (7) days:
* a half-century of make-do camping in lesser rigs, plus
* a year and a hundred thousand miles delivering RecreateVehicles manufacturer-to-dealer and dealer-to-shows.
This background/experience formed our RequirementsStatement... the bits-n-bobs sharts-n-giggles of stuff to leave out.
.
We left out stuff from our conversion because it:
* had a tendency to wear-out, break, or be single-purpose
* required management -- maintaining, repair, stowing, locking, watching over, remembering to find then read the instructions/check-list.
.
b)
Long-winded?
Nah.
I can out-wind you with one hand tied behind my back.
Blind-folded.
On a dark and stormy night.

I had to look up to see what a "Ford CF8000 commercial truck" is. You really get 14 mpg in that? Are you sure you didn't add that "1" in front of the "4" by mistake? But I agree with your not wanting to have a lot of complicated systems on board. I've thought about getting an old RoadTrek, but there just seem to be so many things that could wrong that would be so expensive to repair -- water system, generator, fridge, black water, air conditioner, etc.

 

[FredW]

I appreciate all the helpful replies. The main gist I'm getting is that gas mileage is better than I feared it would be (10 mpg or less), and that dependability is pretty good. So I'm encouraged! It sounds like an early 2000's V-8 or maybe a V-6 would do me pretty well. Or a van from the '90s if I could make sure that it's still in good shape. I like stick shift and am happiest with the least amount of electronics. (Although fuel injection seems like a big advance over carburetors.)

 

[rruff]

I hate to give up the good gas mileage of my T100 (about 22 mpg with the topper), but we need something larger.

I'd absolutely keep the T100 if it runs good, and build a bigger shell for it. That's really an awesome truck. MPG will probably drop to the high teens, but nothing you can buy will be better, and probably much worse... like 10 or so. If you had a higher budget you may get high teens with a modern van with a V6, but it's going to cost too much. And you will lose any offroad capability... if that bothers you.

If you are interested we can talk about simple and quick ways to build an aero camper (single sheet ply, stitch and glue style). You've already built one, so I know you are handy. A cabover sleeping berth results in a huge improvement in space for two people.

 

[RvNaut]

As a full timer.. one of my goals is to *not* move around as much as I can... I chose a beast of a class A and it sucks massive amounts of fuel, but 98% of the time, I am not moving.

 

[LargeMarge]

I had to look up to see what a "Ford CF8000 commercial truck" is. You really get 14 mpg in that? Are you sure you didn't add that "1" in front of the "4"...

.
a)
You looked us up!
Yes!
Vindication!
.
I always include the complete description because...
... I hope folk will look at one alternative to a Sprinter-type van or an ambulance or skoolie.
.
You did good.
.
.
b)
We usually travel with our long-established caravan chums.
Some of our bunch are in ancient chuggers, reluctant to maintain freeway speeds.
And this's alright with us.
.
We putter along in the slow-lane at 52mph...
...between checking-out farm-stands and road-side attractions.
If invited, we are ready to boondock in a pasture or next to the stables of some friends we just made.
We often encourage our new pals to invite us to help with the animals *or* help with the harvest.
.
'or' but not 'and'.
We do have some standards after all.
.
c)
For sharts-n-giggles, we read RecreateVehicle forums such as IRV2.
'Those people' boast about covering six hundred miles a day, driving at 75mph or quicker, paying a couple hundred fedbux a night at a resort...
... with something called 'full hook ups' whatever that is.
.
It could just be me, but does 'full hook ups' sound slightly naughty?