A group of Mormons traveling near the Us/Mx border,on the Mx side was attacked and 9 people were killed including 2 infants.I've enjoyed many trips into Mx in years past but I'm not crazy enough to go anymore.An average of 100 people a day are murdered in Mx.2600 already this year around Tijuana.If you are considering going to Mx,I would advise you to think again.The only safe place in Mx,is Algodonas.
Mexico murders
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gramakittycat
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Not to forget the couple whose bodies were found in Texas near the Mexican border.Their rv and truck were seen crossing the border into Mexico before the bodies were found...
crofter
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2019 statistics on that: Mexico is one of the most lethal countries to live in (top 15), US is down the list quite a ways (76th) out of 195 countries.MrNoodly said:
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/murder-rate-by-country/
US is only at the top of the list when the most lethal countries are omitted from the statistics, as if US citizens don't travel and do business in Mexico and other dangerous places every day. Some of our favorite destinations in Mexico, and even locally, are quite dangerous, and we manage somehow to come out unscathed when the bullets are flying. I do not have the statistics on that, but my uncle had a saying, that if you do the dangerous thing enough times, eventually your number will come up. Other travellers will say that it is perfectly safe. But no one can deny the body count that is now being unearthed.
The statistics from both sides are available online if you are interested. There are 195 countries in the world, so if the list you are looking at is shorter, it has been altered.
For trips to Algodones, I would caution travellers to go in a group and keep track of each other. It's just common sense. Going in a group is also a good idea for some dangerous but fun places in the US. In Wyoming we had the rule about going to the bar- at least 6 in the group or everyone was staying home. ~crofter
badmotorscooter
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I would caution accepting the validity of murder statistics in Mexico. I have seen them stating anywhere from almost equal to 3 times the murder rate of the US. Per capita would be the most accurate measurement of the likelihood of being murdered, if those statistics are to be believed.
But you can most certainly single out big cities in the US that trump Mexico's overall murder rate.
Are people more apprehensive about traveling there?
But you can most certainly single out big cities in the US that trump Mexico's overall murder rate.
Are people more apprehensive about traveling there?
When you look at statistics are you looking at an actual count of murders of tourist? No of course not, you are also seeing all the murders from gang violence, drug wars, domestic violence, murder for hire, homicides from car accidents such as drunk driving, bar fights that end in a death, etc.
If you want to know how much danger you are in then you need to look at the statistics that specifically concern tourist driving around on the roads in cars, RVs, vans, etc.
Articles such as this one do discuss how to "sort out the wheat from the chaff" on the statistics concerning death of American tourist in Mexico, but it is an article about air tourism so don't look at it as an actual source of statistics for tourist who travel by road.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/hea...-statisticians-take-on-the-risk-vs-the-reward
Statistics are a tough one to sort out unless you know the exact criteria on which the report was based.
Of course we all know that there is a segment of the nomadic RV population who goes into Mexico to indulge themselves in drugs or to purchase drugs to resale. That is a risky business but those do result in a higher murder count which skews the statistics of Americans dying from murder.
If you want to know how much danger you are in then you need to look at the statistics that specifically concern tourist driving around on the roads in cars, RVs, vans, etc.
Articles such as this one do discuss how to "sort out the wheat from the chaff" on the statistics concerning death of American tourist in Mexico, but it is an article about air tourism so don't look at it as an actual source of statistics for tourist who travel by road.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/hea...-statisticians-take-on-the-risk-vs-the-reward
Statistics are a tough one to sort out unless you know the exact criteria on which the report was based.
Of course we all know that there is a segment of the nomadic RV population who goes into Mexico to indulge themselves in drugs or to purchase drugs to resale. That is a risky business but those do result in a higher murder count which skews the statistics of Americans dying from murder.
crofter
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I looked up the US State Department site for their advisory related to tourism.maki2 said:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/International-Travel-Country-Information-Pages/Mexico.html
Above link advises Baja is level 2 (caution due to crime and kidnapping), and the other US border states advises level 3 (reconsider travel for Sonora, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon), except for Tamalipas which advises level 4 (do not travel). Read the entire advisory, will list specifics for your destination and safer options like flying versus driving, roads to use. ~crofter
Here is a map
https://travelmaps.state.gov/TSGMap/
crofter
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@maki, I did notice that the statistics presented in the Foxnews article about spring break travel were based on air travel tourism. However they did list 83 murders in Mexico of those air travellers, even though state department does recommend air travel or sea travel to Mexico as safer. I would like to see the stats that include the whole picture on tourism. The essence of the Foxnews article was "go anyway" and Foxnews is not accountable for negative consequences of their advice. I trust the State Department source more due to they are accountable for their advice. ~crofter
I did some more research and these are the latest numbers I came up with.Total number of murders in 2018:US 17000.Mx 31000.In addition there are 30000 people missing in Mx since 2016.Per capita murder rate:US-5.3 per 100000.Mx-25 per 100000.As for tourism,Acapulco is one of the six deadliest cities in Mx.If you go,I wish you good luck.
Despite the one guy mentioned who was attacked in a resort area, it's always gonna be a lot safer to fly into one of the big resorts and then stay in a nice safe hotel, as compared to going deep into the countryside alone in a single RV. If I ever did so, it would be with a caravan of a bunch of RVs. But why even take the gamble at all?
Years ago, when I was a young dude in CA with long hair and a beard, it was very common for lone travelers like me to go to Mexico and get thrown into prison on trumped up charges or have to pay large bribes to the local officials to stay out of prison. Wasn't worth the gamble.
Years ago, when I was a young dude in CA with long hair and a beard, it was very common for lone travelers like me to go to Mexico and get thrown into prison on trumped up charges or have to pay large bribes to the local officials to stay out of prison. Wasn't worth the gamble.
crofter
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In 1960, my dad took us on a family vacation all over northern Mexico in a government surplus vehicle he bought for the purpose. We ended with a month in Mazatlan before driving back north. We did not have any real scrapes, although from time to time the roads were blockaded and we had to get through that. It's too bad, but I think those days are over. What that family from Bavispe went through this week is unspeakable. RIP. ~crofter
This is a terrible situation, but until more is known about this incident, I think it is not something your average van dweller should fear. There's a long backstory about this sect.
These particular Mormons are one of those polygamous sects who moved to Mexico many years ago. Like the Jeffs', they are extreme in their beliefs, and are not exactly unfamiliar with shooting people to get their way. I doubt this was a random occurrence, I think these women and children were targeted. https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2019/11/the-lebaron-family-in-mexico-a-history-of-conflict/
Note, these are very patriarchal people, these women and their children are extremely unlikely to have done anything wrong besides being married to/fathered by the "wrong" men.
These particular Mormons are one of those polygamous sects who moved to Mexico many years ago. Like the Jeffs', they are extreme in their beliefs, and are not exactly unfamiliar with shooting people to get their way. I doubt this was a random occurrence, I think these women and children were targeted. https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2019/11/the-lebaron-family-in-mexico-a-history-of-conflict/
Note, these are very patriarchal people, these women and their children are extremely unlikely to have done anything wrong besides being married to/fathered by the "wrong" men.
It sure interesting what you can find on the internet now days. I also noticed the suspect in the Texas murders was from the USA I believe and we allowed him to escape to Mexico! It is still the wild west in many places.
Gypsy Freedom
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1shemp said:
wow, a hundred murders a day. if a country of almost 130,000,000 sounds like less than a 1 in a million probability?
lets break this down
a group of mormons...
not the first time people got killed trying to spread the word... not going to be the last
traveling near the us/mex border...
that is the absolute most dangerous part of mex by a long shot. only other part that comes close is the big fancy tourist resort cities
and you think Algodonas is "safe"? how many people drive into Algodonas? how many people spend the night or the weekend in Algodonas?
most folks park on the US side and walk in and get out before dark. might be safer than TJ but calling it the only safe place in MEX is a little bit of a stretch.
mex is no more "dangerous" than the US. if you go to a bad area, bad things happen. but there are plenty of amazing and safe destinations in both countries to last a lifetime
In the past a group of Mormons killed a whole wagon train of people from Arkansas passing through Utah in the Mountain Meadows massacre and twenty years later only one one of them was hanged. Murder, fear and armed conflict is nothing new to the more extreme groups, many of which moved to Mexico to avoid prosecution in the US. History is interesting to research and use to evaluate when trying to put today's events into prospective.
There is another downside to Mexico, besides the murder rate, and which is that official corruption is a way of life. It was bad 40 years ago, but must be much worse today with all the drugs and violence. I don't think it's anywheres near that bad in the US.
You will notice that yesterday, the president of Mexico made an announcement rejecting any foreign help in dealing with the cartels. Better to let the violence continue than to put a target on one's own self-serving self.
Most people may not have had any trouble, but the chance of being caught in the cross-fire is definitely much higher down there than in the US. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time. For better or for worse, and accurate or not, Sicario is one of my favorite movies. Puts a very lot into perspective.
You will notice that yesterday, the president of Mexico made an announcement rejecting any foreign help in dealing with the cartels. Better to let the violence continue than to put a target on one's own self-serving self.
Most people may not have had any trouble, but the chance of being caught in the cross-fire is definitely much higher down there than in the US. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time. For better or for worse, and accurate or not, Sicario is one of my favorite movies. Puts a very lot into perspective.
crofter
Well-known member
I read the spoiler, and now it's on my list to view. Maybe a different kind of vest should be listed under essential attire? ~crofter
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