Lower Cost Tow Vehicles

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

My idea of "beating the system" is to buy vehicles at auction.  I've bought more than a dozen ex-government cars over the years - including ex-police cars - and have never had to pay more than about half of what the blue book said it should be worth.  I always end up paying just a little more than what the used car dealers are willing to pay, and avoid having to pay them a profit.

Unlike buying from a dealer OR a private party, my experience has been that the government has been painfully honest about any known problems with the car. While they all break eventually, I've always gotten several years of trouble free service from every one I've ever bought.

OK I went to GSA Fleet sales and auctions. But I can't tell whether the interested bidders are actually allowed to turn the engine on, or even see the vehicle in the flesh. Surely you don't just bid on what a piece of paper says, and a photograph or two?!

 

[ArtW]

I knew about the Amish, but I always figured that was special dispensation in just those specific areas
here we sometimes have 'trail rides' that travel along public highway (usually just off the access roads) but they're almost more like parades, with support vehicles running interference, etc
I had no idea you could actually do that as a day to day thing
They do make 'pooper catcher' slings for the droppings, too

 

[minimotos95]

It's been on my mind for over a year now, as my disgust in using a 3 ton gas guzzling, high maintenance vehicle to haul my little bit of gear I need and all the "luxuries" grew. Animals definitely do still require maintenance but it's not as bad IMO as working on an auto. you still have the maintenance and grease of the axles and wheels for a drawn wagon.

It's in all honestly my end game, one day I see myself running a team of 3-5 freighting dogs while living in the forest. I would have no problem going on foot, and tried it but I can't live without at least one canine.

Just as one sacrifices a little space to gain a lot of freedom with living in a van/RV, one can sacrifice a little speed to gain much more and be more in tune with the world around them.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

OK I went to GSA Fleet sales and auctions. But I can't tell whether the interested bidders are actually allowed to turn the engine on, or even see the vehicle in the flesh. Surely you don't just bid on what a piece of paper says, and a photograph or two?!

My experience is with my local county auction, as well as New York State auctions. 

For a week beforehand, you can go into the county or state garage where the auction is being held and look the vehicles over.  The day of the auction, as they go down the line from vehicle to vehicle, they will start each vehicle and run it for a few minutes before the bidding starts.

I haven't tried a Federal auction.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Unbelievable.

I grew up on a small farm that was still using a draft horse to plow, pull the hay wagon and manure spreader, etc.

Only someone who's never had to care for the animals day in and day out would come up with a fantasy like that.

If you think mechanics are expensive, wait until you have to start paying vet bills.

And they need to be shoed, and good farriers are NOT cheap.

Plus you can sit for 14 days on public land and not burn a drop of gas, but horses need to be fed every day.  Maybe you figure they can just graze for free?  I can tell you our plow horse needed grain every day, and he got to graze pretty freely in our pasture when we weren't actually using him to pull something.

 

[ArtW]

well John, I did say I wasn't experienced with horses, so not surprising
I went back to motorcycles originally because they're far easier to work on than a car, but of course you're exposed to the elements, so not so comfy
I'm sure a plow horse needs a LOT of grain, and a lot of care, pulling a plow is hard ass work
Pulling a wagon i wouldn't think would be as hard? Still have to have some grain along, and at the speed you travel via animal, I doubt I'd be sitting much, but yes good points, you can't exactly go to 7-11 and get horse chow
maybe instead a smaller Art drawn wagon bed + pooper)

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[minimotos95]

I will admit my only experience is with pack horses, not drafting them so I am sure you are right. Pack horses did just fine grazing provided you don't route yourself into the desert where there's no water anyways.
Speaking of, water that is the biggest struggle faced traveling with animals, a working animal with giardia doesn't do much good and dehydration would be heartbreaking.

Nobody is saying animals don't require daily attention, there's a big difference in mutually serving and bending to the will of a natural creature like a horse ensuring it's heath and pouring more grease in a contraption like an automobile.
One thing to remember is that the CONUS and Alaska as we know it was built on the back of working animals. The question was how to beat the system of consumerism forcing us into modern autos, load with gadgets, built out of plastic and designed to fail but at the same time not have to wrench on a vehicle all the time, so short of good old human power the only solution is to step back to animal power.

I also want to point out the Horses are actually some of the worse working animals, eating more than even Oxen to do the same job. Besides that horses don't belong in North America.

 

[John61CT]

not very stealthy

 

[user 37446]

If he wants to truly "beat the system" I'd suggest a rickshaw.    
No other fuel needed, no pooper scooper issues, faster than draft plow horses, can be hired out for spare cash... lots of possibilities! 

Snow Gypsy said:

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"Also, wanted to thank all of those responding. That is what is so great about CRL, the eagerness to help another and I truly never remember anyone coming that didn't get great ideas despite the hurdles they faced. We have a lot of troubleshooting geniuses here when it comes to "getting there"!"  (End of quote from previous page)[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Regardless of the source of the original post, or the other poster who recently accused CRVL members of being uncaring and too well to do to care about him and ice cooler vs. 12v compressor fridg question, :huh: the truth is we respond to questions, even ones that aren't very well defined, in a true effort to help others, no matter their economic circumstances. Even if one or two get "butt hurt" and leave, CRVL members have helped hundreds, if not thousands of legitimate interested individuals. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]While many may "drop out" for various reasons, or simply "go dark" because social media forums aren't their continued interest, you all stand/sit ready to assist. That's one of the real values of this forum, and thanks to Bob for and the mods for keeping it civil and also appropriate to the times.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]In short, most anything will pull his load, even standard minivans. Maybe some will do it faster or "better" but just about any $1500 vehicle can do it, Yugo's maybe excepted...[/font]

 

[Gary68]

ironically a good horse and good van cost about the same but when the ball joints in your horse go out you have to shot it in the head and that would suck

 

[Gary68]

maybe instead a smaller Art drawn wagon bed + pooper)

i got a slight used pair of nike medium tops i'll trade you if you pull me into the rtr cleopatra style

 

[user 37446]

ironically a good horse and good van cost about the same but when the ball joints in your horse go out you have to shot it in the head and that would suck

Ha, that's a good one Gary... And horses only last about 17-20 years, mules go longer. Most of our vans can go double that.

I grew up with "hay burners" and there's no way in hades I'd want to go back to horse and buggy days. Even if it costs me more money.

 

[minimotos95]

If he wants to truly "beat the system" I'd suggest a rickshaw.    
No other fuel needed, no pooper scooper issues, faster than draft plow horses, can be hired out for spare cash... lots of possibilities! 
.....
[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]In short, most anything will pull his load, even standard minivans. Maybe some will do it faster or "better" but just about any $1500 vehicle can do it, Yugo's maybe excepted...[/font]

Yes, you can either accept the cost of the luxuries(like a tow vehicle, or a throw away tow vehicle) or trade those luxuries for something simple, and usually more hard work like anything from a wagon to a backpack.

Or alternatively. do what I am doing, complain about those luxuries while making excuses for doing what I know is bad for me, like sitting in this van and being on the internet instead of experiencing the real world just 18" behind me....

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

The thread hi-jacking has gotten pretty bad.

1. I was hoping to hear good advice about, say, getting rebuilt engines or transmissions from Jasper. I see repair shops with a Jasper sign all over the place.

2. Wondered if anyone know hows to overcome the reluctance of repair shops to use salvage parts. (Don't they prohibit it most of the time?)

3. Should I give up my prejudice against overhead cam engines and their expensive-to-fix timing belts or chains?

4. Anybody know of any place that says something statistically valid about old powertrains? Anecdotes don't help much. I tried Consumer Reports once. Didn't help too much.

5. Had good luck once near the Mexican border, with repair. Wondered if I should pursue that angle more aggressively.

6. Know any tricks for finding low overhead mechanics in rural areas, where you are paying for skill rather than for expensive real estate overhead?

 

[minimotos95]

1 Search: https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Good-luck-with-rebuilt-motors I thought there was a thread specific to Japser rebuilds a few years ago but I couldn't find it
2 Only have heard of that being an issue at chains, not installing any second hand parts.
3 If you want a newer vehicle which it certainly sounds like you do though you seem to despise everything about them then yes, gear driven cams and pushrods are not common at all. Gear driven conversions are still available but you said you don't want a project so....

 

[user 37446]

The thread hi-jacking has gotten pretty bad.

1. I was hoping to hear good advice about, say, getting rebuilt engines or transmissions from Jasper. I see repair shops with a Jasper sign all over the place.

2. Wondered if anyone know hows to overcome the reluctance of repair shops to use salvage parts. (Don't they prohibit it most of the time?)

3. Should I give up my prejudice against overhead cam engines and their expensive-to-fix timing belts or chains?

4. Anybody know of any place that says something statistically valid about old powertrains? Anecdotes don't help much. I tried Consumer Reports once. Didn't help too much.

5. Had good luck once near the Mexican border, with repair. Wondered if I should pursue that angle more aggressively.

6. Know any tricks for finding low overhead mechanics in rural areas, where you are paying for skill rather than for expensive real estate overhead?

Each of those should be it's own thread, or group all the mechanical ones.

They seem to be quite different than the questions from the original post.   One could always use either the search feature or, gasp, Google them... ?

I'm done.

 

[highdesertranger]

ok I will try to answer a few of those at least,
1. Jasper Engines and transmissions. from my experience I would never use them, high failure rate. they make up for it in volume. if I need an engine I will rebuild it myself or get a factory replacement. I rebuilt the engine in my truck in 2001 and although it's getting tired it still runs good.
2. repair shops don't want to use used parts because you usually only get a 30 day warranty plus a lot of the parts are bad right off the shelf so they end up doing the job 2 or 3 times. not good for their overhead.
3. I like simple and I hate timing belts so I might be prejudice with my answer.
4. people can make stats say anything they want to show their point of view. any person or group using stats I take with a grain of salt. real life experience is a much better barometer IMO.
5. can't help you there.
6. go to where the locals go. ask around.
highdesertranger

 

[user 37446]

HDR shamed me into answering a couple points, so here goes:

X1 on Jasper. Factory long blocks or an independent garage with a good rep. would be better.

Shops make a markup on parts and have existing relationships with suppliers. When you bring in the greasy starter from a salvage yard, the shop makes nothing, has to take a chance on the part, and has no ability to warranty.

Old powertrains. Well, there's thousands of posts in hundreds of forums, some brand specific, some are for farmers, boaters, tractor enthusiasts, etc who talk about engines/machinery. Trying searching online. If you don't want the collective experience of thousands of owners of engines that have been developed and built for decades, then go to manufacturer websites like Ford, Dodge and GM to see what the experience has been for the newer, highly complex motors.
YouTube has the "occasional" video on mechanical things, you could always try there.

Back in the day I used to actually talk to mechanics in shops where I was getting service work done. There's a novel thought in this "wired" age.

Mexico has a huge amount of older American vehicles. You have to wait 10 years to import one into Mexico without duty so every year, the vehicles from a decade earlier start going over.

Hey, here's a thought... go to Cuba and see how the vehicles from the 1950's and very early 1960's are holding up. That's mostly what is on their roads. That's a bit of experience on older drivetrains you could get, plus enjoy their low tech economy! (Might even be some horse drawn transport too).

 

[highdesertranger]

no shame intended. highdesertranger

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

1 Search: https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Good-luck-with-rebuilt-motors I thought there was a thread specific to Japser rebuilds a few years ago but I couldn't find it
2 Only have heard of that being an issue at chains, not installing any second hand parts.
3 If you want a newer vehicle which it certainly sounds like you do though you seem to despise everything about them then yes, gear driven cams and pushrods are not common at all. Gear driven conversions are still available but you said you don't want a project so....

Good point point about push-rod engines, minimotos95. Let's see, isn't the Chevy the only pushrod engine still sold?

I have it in mind to buy a 2012 or 2013 Silverado because they have the last couple years of Vortec engines. The Eco-tec engine started in 2014 -- it is still a pushrod engine, but has Direct Injection which is asking for trouble I think.

Of course they still put Vortec engines in Chevy Express vans, don't they?