Lower Cost Tow Vehicles

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

I realize this is primarily a van camping website, but tow vehicle + trailer people are semi-welcome, I hope. (grin)

I am feeling frustrated. The fundamental question for cheap RV living is 'beating the system' when it comes to the astronomical cost of ever-more-complex, codpiece tow vehicles, that is, pickup trucks and vans. (The premise of this argument is that low cost trailers are readily available, and just aren't the issue that matters.)

I don't know which sub-topic I should concentrate on, in cheapRVliving forum.

If only I had a nickel for every hour I have wasted on various 'how to' forums such as tnttt, fiberglass, RV.net, IRV2, and the model-specific forums. They don't help much. Car review websites don't help at all.

Perhaps your advice is, "There is no way to win on this topic, so just accept it, and stop complaining." But if you have any non-defeatist ideas, I'd love to hear them.

 

[John61CT]

First define what's being towed, particularly total weight. Then decide what sort of hitch.

That will help define suitable brands / models / specs, start narrowing down.

Then define a budget, and see how old / mileage range you can afford.

 

[MrNoodly]

A friend of mine just hauled 3,500 pounds of utility trailer and contents from Oregon to Colorado with a 16-year-old Dodge Caravan. He would not recommend doing that.

But I see all sorts of small crossovers, minivans and medium size sedans towing small, lightweight travel trailers. As John61CT said, it depends on what you want to tow. The fact you're talking pickups and vans suggests you have something on the larger half of the scale in mind.

 

[SoulRaven]

What are you going to tow? Are you ruling out SUVs? We just bought 2 in the last 3 years, used ones of course, but with plenty of life left. They were here, central KS, much more affordable than a truck or van. The Durango tows around 6,000 lbs and the Expedition around 9,000 lbs. Both have the tow package. You have to be ready to move as the more desirable vehicles go fast. It doesn't hurt to let a dealership know what you are looking for if looking for used, they like to move them as quickly as possible and being a phone call away helps.

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

A friend of mine just hauled 3,500 pounds of utility trailer and contents from Oregon to Colorado with a 16-year-old Dodge Caravan. He would not recommend doing that.

But I see all sorts of small crossovers, minivans and medium size sedans towing small, lightweight travel trailers. As John61CT said, it depends on what you want to tow. The fact you're talking pickups and vans suggests you have something on the larger half of the scale in mind.

Remember that my question was not the worn-out "will truck X pull trailer Y?"

It was, "How do we outsmart the system when all the trends in the automotive industry are aligned against us."

But in responding to the two first commenters, I appreciate that minimizing the weight of your trailer will minimze the cost of your tow vehicle. I've already done that, since my converted cargo trailer weighs 2800 pounds LOADED.

My original question is NOT, "What should I get to pull it?"

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

What are you going to tow?  Are you ruling out SUVs?  We just bought 2 in the last 3 years, used ones of course, but with plenty of life left.  They were here, central KS, much more affordable than a truck or van.  The Durango tows around 6,000 lbs and the Expedition around 9,000 lbs.  Both have the tow package.  You have to be ready to move as the more desirable vehicles go fast.  It doesn't hurt to let a dealership know what you are looking for if looking for used, they like to move them as quickly as possible and being a phone call away helps.

It surprises me that SUVs are bargains in your area. Truck-based SUVs disappeared around 2010, didn't they? The newer crossovers are just mommie-mobiles.

SUVs should be overpriced because of how the automobile industry works: any gas hawg damages your corporate average fuel economy (CAFE). Therefore you must make $10,000 profit on it to make up for all the econo-boxes that you sell at cost. SUVS have been loaded up with every conceivable bell and whistle for the last 20 years.

But perhaps used SUVs have become unfashionable and passe, and therefore more reasonable in price?

 

[SoulRaven]

We don't worry about "unfashionable and passe", we look at the condition of the vehicle and the price. I suspect we use less gas than most since we combine trips and walk to places reasonably close. We got a 2007 (2.5 years ago for about $8,000 with 136,000 miles) and an 2008 Expedition 6 months ago, around 90,000 miles for $14,000 - one owner in our smaller town.

I am not sure what your question is. I thought you wanted to avoid what would be in your mind paying too much for a tow vehicle, van or truck. My suggestion was an SUV. For us, it was a good choice. It may not be for others.

 

[highdesertranger]

I am not totally sure what you are asking. I would get the biggest older truck in good shape. I tow with my 78 Chevy 1 ton 4x4. it's the ultimate recycling project. highdesertranger

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

I am not totally sure what you are asking.  I would get the biggest older truck in good shape.  I tow with my 78 Chevy 1 ton 4x4.  it's the ultimate recycling project.  highdesertranger

Does buying an older vehicle really 'beat the system' considering that most people can't -- or won't -- do repairs themselves? Even if they could, how would they do repairs in the field?

So 'beating the system' for older trucks consists of -- what? -- finding a good mechanic and doing repairs preemptively? Or overcoming one's fears of, say, buying a Jasper rebuilt engine or transmission, and finding a guy who has a low-overhead operation and doing that work all the time?

 

[closeanuf]

How much do you want to spend?  Are you looking at new or used?  What brands do you like?  Help us out a little bit ! Do you want a truck?

 

[highdesertranger]

if you have an older vehicle you must be able to work on it yourself. I would go through it front to rear top to bottom. I am on my second time going through this truck. I have already done the rear end, https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-rebuilding-a-GM-14bolt-rear-end . stay tuned for the rest. the engine is ready for assembly that will be next. highdesertranger

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

if you have an older vehicle you must be able to work on it yourself.  I would go through it front to rear top to bottom.  I am on my second time going through this truck.  I have already done the rear end,   https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-rebuilding-a-GM-14bolt-rear-end .  stay tuned for the rest.  the engine is ready for assembly that will be next.  highdesertranger

I envy guys like you. But I suspect it is too late to become a good mechanic.

Besides, are you doing any of your work in the field? These days, I'll bet if you did something as minor as change one of the fluids in your vehicle IN THE FIELD, and an LEO ranger came by, you would get a ticket. Not sure of course.

 

[Bud Smiley]

The way to beat the system is to learn how to maintain your own vehicle.

You don't have to become a good mechanic. Any repair you will make has been endlessly documented in step-by-step format on forums and in Chilton or Haynes books. If you can follow simple directions, you can repair almost anything.

 

[hepcat]

It was, "How do we outsmart the system when all the trends in the automotive industry are aligned against us."

I've towed a 34' Airstream trip-axle two door trailer with a Ford Excursion, and I've towed a 16' Scamp with a Honda Element, most recently an '06 Bigfoot 25RQ with an '07 Nissan Titan and a 2011  Heartland MPG 19' trailer with an '07 Toyota FJ Cruiser and many others in between those extremes over the years.

Like HDR, I'm still a little unclear on your concept.  What are you trying to outsmart, specifically, and what trends do you think are aligned against you?  What, exactly, is it that you're trying to get advice on here?

 

[highdesertranger]

if you need to work on your vehicle on the road get permission to do it on private property, I have done that plenty of times. unless it's an emergency repair which I have done on BLM and FS land, just don't make a mess and contain everything don't let oil hit bare ground. never been hassled by anybody. I even had a California Highway patrolman hold a flashlight for me on a scenic overlook while I changed a fuel pump. this was between Bishop and Tom's place on US395. highdesertranger

 

[MrNoodly]

My original question is NOT, "What should I get to pull it?"

But the ways to outsmart the system depend on what sort of vehicle you need in order to tow what you have. If it's a 35' 5th wheel, that means one set of limitations/options beating the system because you need certain vehicle capabilities. If it's a teardrop, then the limitation/options are different, because the tow vehicle requirements are less demanding. Another parameter is how new/low mileage of a vehicle do you want? That affects what sort of vehicle acquisition games can be played.

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

I've towed a 34' Airstream trip-axle two door trailer with a Ford Excursion, and I've towed a 16' Scamp with a Honda Element, most recently an '06 Bigfoot 25RQ with an '07 Nissan Titan and a 2011  Heartland MPG 19' trailer with an '07 Toyota FJ Cruiser and many others in between those extremes over the years.

Like HDR, I'm still a little unclear on your concept.  What are you trying to outsmart, specifically, and what trends do you think are aligned against you?  What, exactly, is it that you're trying to get advice on here?

Wow, I am doing badly at expressing myself. Perhaps I was afraid of stepping into what sounds political or anti-government. Virtually all of the trends in the auto industry are driven by government regulations, rather than consumer preferences. But let's remain neutral on that and ignore whether that is good or bad, and just take it as it is.

How do I get around these negatives? That is my question.

(Examples of these negatives are timing belts and chains, TWO fuel pumps, turbos, engines that turn off automatically at stop signs, crud buildup on the valves of direct-injected engines, fuel injectors subject to harsher conditions because they are in the combustion chamber, information screens, 8 air bags per vehicle, pollution inspection, more sensors, a dozen little motors that move seats and windows and locks, more connectors to fail, higher compression ratios, higher temperatures, higher RPM, aluminum bodies and higher insurance costs, cylinder shutdown, complex adjustable valve trains, 4 valves per cylinder, carbon taxes, crash safety requirements, ad infinitum.)

On top of these mechanical issues is the codpiece syndrome of making pickup trucks into cartoonish clowns. This is driven mostly by the easy-money era of the Federal Reserve.

Because of CAFE, you must make about $15000 profit on your gas hogs, and these are what we buy to tow trailers.

So those are the mandated trends that are turning automobiles into an unaffordable luxuries.

My question is, how do I sneak around most of this and still succeed at cheap RV living.

 

[minimotos95]

I'm with HDR on this, the way to beat the system is to have something serviceable. Carb'd HEI small block chevy's are a great example of this, even for someone who hates playing grease monkey like myself can do pretty much everything short of fixing the shortblock and transmission on the side of the highway if truly necessary. To wrestle out a transmission or a short block I would opt for a tow to the auto parts store or machine shop parking lot.
When you can get every part you would ever need straight off the shelf at a small town auto parts store and you are not reliant on a "mechanic" to fix your rig.

Actually, I take that back, the ONLY way to beat the system and the petro dependence is animal power pulling your home on steel wheels. Horses, yak, oxen, I'm sure even a team of goats will pull your typical full timer's load.
-edit:
That also beats the insurance and licensing schemes giving you more freedom.

 

[jonney38]

I think people are having trouble answering you because you say there are two separate questions, how to beat the system and what to tow with?  Aren't they really the same question? You beat the system by finding the cheapest and most reliable vehicle that will tow your 2800 pounds.

I towed over 2000 pounds 10,000 miles with a little 1997 Ford Taurus . It has 250,000 miles on it. I don't do repair work anymore so my strategy is to use old beaters that were really popular in their day. There are more after-market parts and junked vehicles. I stick with Fords and Chevys because there are dealers in every back-water city. I compensate for having an under powered and old vehicle by going slower.

I'm not saying this is without risk--I've had a couple of dogs in my day. We both know the industry is not going to change for us.

 

[highdesertranger]

yep with your definition of what your looking for, you are looking for a pre computerized truck. or one that doesn't need the primitive 1st generation computers. highdesertranger