Looking for a new solar charge controller, suggestions?

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Just when you think ya got a handle on things.  Postive ground?  Sure .  On the '52 Ford 6v that I had back in the day.

I just picked up a Renogy kit, (thanks Bob), with the Rover MPPT 20a.  Don't see any reference to pos grd in the manual.  Googled Renogy positive grd controllers.  Got some hits from 2015 and earlier.  Dunno.

Are there still solar set ups that spec positive ground still?
 
If you're asking me, I don't want one. Would not have thought they'd ever exist. There was reference to early Renogy controllers on page one stating pos grd controllers. I merely googled to find more info.
 
Early in the last century (think 1900 to the 1930s) when vacuum tubes and tube driven amplifiers, receivers, and transmitters were being developed, negative ground was standardized since it made much more sense to figure things out that way, from an electronics theory point of view, which itself carried froward from the late 1800s. (simplified: electrons moved, or jumped, from the negative 'ground' to the positive 'plate' in a vacuum tube)

Fast forward to the 1950s and 1960s, and transistor theory was coming into its day, and the engineers and designers stuck with what they knew: Negative ground.

Right around then, (and of course earlier) the  automotive industry started putting radios in the dashboards, and of course, some cars were positive ground, which made things difficult when the radio was negative ground, and the vehicle was positive ground.

Of course there were some 'work-arounds': some radios were advertised as floating ground, some were 'kludged' up to be positive ground, and even Radio Shack sold a ground isolator for installing standardized negative-ground radios in (by then non-standard) positive ground vehicles. But during all of that time, the basic internals of the radios were NEVER positive ground, only the chassis connections were rewired to make it compatible. Electronic circuit design was always negative ground.

Eventually, the automobile manufacturers caught up, the light came on, and they said hey, lets just make these cars and trucks negative ground to be compatible with all this electronic stuff the customers want.

So really, the reason cars are negative ground today is primarily due to the early days of vacuum tube and electronic circuit development.

Just FYI.

:cool:
 
I had a 1969 British car that came "positive earth" and I wanted to add a radio.  I reversed the wires on the temp and gas guages and the battery.  I reflashed the generator.  The residual magnetism starts the generating.  I ran a wire from the battery hot to the generator field for a second.  

I think the original poster is confusing positive ground with low side switching.  The car had a hot wire from the battery, through a fuse, to the dome light bulb.  The other end of the bulb went to a 3 position switch:  A) always on,  B) always off, C) door control where the two door swiches completed the circuit on the low side.  

By reversing positive to negative ground the dome light remained low side switched.  The starter motor remained high side switched.  

Many solar charge controllers use negative side switching.  If you tie the battery negative to ground then you have a negative ground system with low side switching.  

If you want negative ground and high side switching for the low voltage disconnect, Renogy does have one.  You can easily fake it.  The controllers generally have weak outputs.  Use a relay.  Power the coil from the controller switched output and wire up the loads to the relay as you see fit.  This way when someone replaces the controller they won't be puzzled why everything is screwed up because the new controller isn't compatible with your wiring where all the minuses are tied to the chassis.  At that time adding more wire will be difficult.

My 1999 Ford Windstars witches both sides of the dome light.  The high side is switched by a relay and the low side is switched by a computer.  The tail lights and brake lights are the same.  A trailer cannot be connected without a control box, probably containing relays.
 
Putts said:
Hole flow. Who'da thunk it?

I remember some class time devoted to 'hole theory'....and of course we got the message:

um, hole flow is the way it all REALLY works...but never mind that, were going back to 'electron flow'....


:p
 
Trebor English said:
Many solar charge controllers use negative side switching.  If you tie the battery negative to ground then you have a negative ground system with low side switching.  

Ah!

Now this clarifies it.

I will have to check on the ones I have. I assume my Prostar is using high side switching, But I've not actually checked.

I can see where there could be a need for low side switching on the LVD circuit, since so many mechanics, and technicians, always advise and demonstrate, disconnecting the negative side of a battery system to keep the possibility of sparks (downline) to a minimum.

But this is still NOT negative ground. If you were to open the unit, and probe the grounds and B+ (old school term) on the circuit board, or look at the schematic, I guarantee, the internal workings are all negative ground.

But it makes more sense to me now how this could be confused with low-side switching.

Thanks for the information!
 
I have a low cost PWM controller.  All three plus connections, solar panel, battery, and load, are tied together.  Loads are turned on with a switch (transistor) between the load minus terminal and the battery minus terminal.  Charging is turned on (bulk) or pulsed with a switch between panel minus terminal and battery minus terminal. 

The reason for the low side switching is the intersection between physics and economics.  N-channel field effect transistors are faster, better, cheaper than P-channel parts.  The designer can A) use good parts in a simple circuit or B) use more expensive not so good parts or C) make a complicated circuit that uses 18 volts to control a 15 volt switch.
 
Trebor English said:
I have a low cost PWM controller.  All three plus connections, solar panel, battery, and load, are tied together.  Loads are turned on with a switch (transistor) between the load minus terminal and the battery minus terminal.  Charging is turned on (bulk) or pulsed with a switch between panel minus terminal and battery minus terminal.

You gone and done it!

Ok...here is a screen grab from my ProStar 15 manual:

ground-info.PNG

So...there IS a positive ground version, (which uses low side switching) but you can see that here, the negatives are all tied together, and all switching is done on the positive side...on mine.

Vewwwy vewwwy intewesting...
 

Attachments

  • ground-info.PNG
    ground-info.PNG
    75.9 KB · Views: 16
And, one more thing, it matters.  

My solar panel wiring is big enough, 10 gauge, so that the 5.5 amps from the panel cannot possibly ignite it so another fuse isn't necessary.  Right?  I have an 80 amp fuse at the battery.  Oh, but wait, the panel plus terminal is wired to the battery plus terminal and that's connected to the 80 amp fuse.  

I actually use one of my fuse box positions with a 30 amp fuse to connect the solar controller to the fat wire that goes to the 80 amp fuse.  Presume that a solar controller can feed battery +12 back to the panel.  If you start with a controller that switches high sides it might be ok but who will remember when it is time to replace the controller?
 
tx2sturgis said:
So...there IS a positive ground version, (which uses low side switching)

Prostar makes the product so they can name it what they want.  Using words to mean things differently generally ads confusion rather than clarification.

Will the Prostar product called "positive ground"  work on a vehicle that that has the battery minus tied to the body, chassis, engine block?  Yes, it will.  My controller fits their description of "positive ground" and my battery minus is tied to the body and it works.
 
Trebor English said:
Will the Prostar product called "positive ground"  work on a vehicle that that has the battery minus tied to the body, chassis, engine block?  Yes, it will.  My controller fits their description of "positive ground" and my battery minus is tied to the body and it works.

So this clears up something...that was a bit cloudy at first.

The 'positive ground' only means low side switching, NOT as I first assumed, that a positive ground controller is for a positive ground vehicle.

You are right...that wording can cause all kinds of confusion.

So this means the OP would be OK with the positive 'ground' controller in a negative ground vehicle, you just need to run separate negative wires to everything, and not 'bridge' the switching thru the ground of the vehicle.

Cool!
 
< marketing rant >
I presume that this entire kerfuffle is the fault of some marketing idiots.  I think they are uninformed, maybe uninformable, idiots.  

The alternative is that they are evil and want to sell products that feel good because they are positive.  Who would want a negative product?  A straightforward description of the product and what it does might give up a perceived sales advantage.  What does it say about your product if confusion is a sales advantage?  
< / marketing rant >
 
Crave said:
I suspect it is due to the country in which it was manufactured. Not all countries use good practices in engineering.

AMEN.  I've had 2 vehicles over the years that had positive grounds.  Both were designed by Lucas Electrics.  

Brian's excellent tutorial earlier left out the British car and vehicle manufacturers.  They had positive ground systems into the 70's. 
Like Triumph motorcycles and MG midgets!  Great driving ! Stupid Electronics! bleah!  I don't think they still do; arent' they all owned by Ford now?

I noticed that some of the controllers come with either positive or negative ground models.   Apparently, they still make vehicles like that.  Perhaps in countries where they drive on the left side of the road.  

Pat
 
Lucas, Prince of Darkness

Google "Lucas jokes" it's a genre unto itself!
 
Top