Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) Forum on Van Dwellers

[Seraphim]

Josephus

Enough people of that stereotype, unfortunately, exist in all occupations.

There is still discretion available to an officer, but it diminishes. Mostly, it's the discretion whether or not to initiate any type of contact.

 

[josephusminimus]

Josephus Enough people of that stereotype, unfortunately, exist in all occupations. There is still discretion available to an officer, but it diminishes. Mostly, it's the discretion whether or not to initiate any type of contact.

<br /><br />May all our non-police officer stereotypes among us be blessed by encountering only officers who choose that fragment of the discretion spectrum.&nbsp; Those we meet in other professions aren't likely to be weighted down by weaponry and a legalized set of options with dire consequences for the unwary, the unannointed, and the expired inspection sticker or burned out license tag bulb.

 

[Seraphim]

So you just have an aversion to authority figures, then?

 

[josephusminimus]

So you just have an aversion to authority figures, then?

<br /><br />I don't know any authority figures to have an aversion to. But I do recognize the personal need certain profiles of individuals have to see themselves as authority figures and I try to avoid the manifestations resulting from that need as it spills over into the lives of people not driven by similar needs.<br /><br />The 'aversion to authority figures' cliche is one I've often seen utilized but rarely found anything of substance in it.

 

[ParadiseParrot]

Only problem is I don't want to be checked , carded or have to show my papers. They want to fill out there card to show that there generally wasted tax payer salary was used for something other than eating donuts. But since I am not being arrested for a crime or suspected of one demanding "my papers" is a violation of my rights according to SCOTUS. But they do it anyway. So the oath they take is meaningless. If want to live and do as I please and as long as I am not hurting others I expect to be left alone. I always feel as though I am being treated as a criminal and feel no public service from them.<br /><br />All the BS talk about help for vets from the LEO on that site. FLorida shut down all but one mental facility and just hand knockout dope to the mentally ill in jail.NO doctors at all just guards.<br /><br />Personally I don't want or need there help other than to keep people from running red lights etc. I don't lock my doors at my house even when I go on vacation. And I live in an urban area. 50 years old now and never been a victim of crime to speak of. Cops however have attempted to violate my civil rights and broke the law and lied afterwards several times toward me and mine during my life. I dont worry about criminals because I dont "hang" with them , them near them or interfer in their business. This only leaves cops and politicians as my enemy.<br /><br /><br />On the other hand visible drug use , improper behavior , stealing , dumpster diving without permission or such behavior is going to bring the man down on you. So if you do these things and get hassled then its on you.<br /><br />Frankly if half the cops got laid off tommorrow I dont think the crime rate would be any different.<br /><br />Disclaimer : I have never been arrest or convicted on ANY crime other than a few minor traffic violations<br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[oscarthompsn]

I didn't found anything specific in that forum. Everyone seem to be making his own comments they consider as right and nothing in general. Some people supporting and some opposing and is it necessary that these comments are made by LEO's (Law enforcement officers only) Didn't felt like that when I read.

 

[ParadiseParrot]

Please repost. Previous post is unreadable.

 

[lampliter]

Some are cops because they have control issues.<br>Some are cops because they like the work.<br>Some are cops because they thought they wanted to be.<br>Some are cops because they believe in Protect and Serve.<br>some are cops because they got their lunch money stolen.<br>Some are cops because they're just plain ass holes.<br>Some are cops just because.<br>What'cha gonna do bout me?

 

[Staying Put]

I didn't read the OP's thread about LEOs and vandwellers, but here is my 2 cents:&nbsp; police, those in positions of authority, will attract the exactly the wrong kind of people who should work in them--those who too much enjoy having power over people.&nbsp; <br><br>There are usually ways in which police can exercise discretion when it comes to something as relatively benign as sleeping in a van even if it is technically against the law.&nbsp; How any of this turns out will depend upon the officer's previous experiences with the same type of situation, where it occurs, what the van or vehicle looks like, if the vehicle is familiar and if it has in-state plates, and lastly the reaction of the driver to the cop (which would likely depend on the way the officer makes contact and relates to the person in the vehicle).<br><br>I am no longer sure if it is illegal in my city to sleep in your vehicle.&nbsp; This is because I know of a mentally ill woman of 64 who was a college professor who chooses to live in her beat-up '94 Toyota pickup.&nbsp; No stealth here:&nbsp; stuff piled on top of the truck covered with a tarp, things tied on the truck, and written rants she has taped all over her vehicle.&nbsp; She does not sleep in the back under the topper because it is full of "stuff".&nbsp; Instead she sleeps behind the wheel, never lying down because the cab is also full of junk and she cannot even see out of the passenger window.&nbsp; She walks around all day throwing bed she gets for free to the birds, drinking coffee all day.&nbsp; From what I am told, during the night she urinates through a funnel that empties onto the street.&nbsp; She chooses to sleep in this vehicle all year, even in cold Wisconsin winters in spite of no working heater.&nbsp; How long has she been doing this?&nbsp; SEVEN YEARS!&nbsp; Yet the city police who know of this do nothing about it.<br><br>Now I try and square this with what I heard from a neighbor.&nbsp; Her elderly but otherwise fit father was homeless in this city.&nbsp; He went to his grandson's house in the summer but there was no room in the apartment.&nbsp; It was summer so he said he would be fine sleeping in his car in front of the house.&nbsp; The police wrapped on the window in the middle of the night and told him he could not sleep in his car even though his grandson knew he was there.<br><br>So I don't know if it legal to sleep in a vehicle in my city.&nbsp; Evidently the police here have a lot of discretion in the matter, which leads me to wonder how much discretion police anywhere may have except if you are clearly in an area which is posted "No Sleeping in Vehicles".&nbsp; Myself, I would rather avoid the situation altogether by staying in a Walmart parking lot with others sleeping in their vehicles if I find the need.<br><br>In the end, LEOs are the product of their own personal experiences and prejudices and how they may be required to enforce the laws along with their familiarity with the people they encounter and their actions and attitudes during that encounter.&nbsp; Police are just people, but they are people with guns who have it within their power to end your liberty.&nbsp; Things are good and go well until they don't, let's hope they never go wrong, understanding that in the end "such is life" and move on.<br><br><br><br>

 

[joshua33]

Good points..<br><br>As with all things, context is important. If you're sleeping in your car parked behind a warehouse in the dark, you're going to "hassled". If you're parked at a rest area, not so much.<br><br>On a side note, what many of these people consider being "hassled" is anything but. For example, if I'm checking cars and see a guy on his back, out of it, I'm going to knock on the window. At this point, I don't know if the guy is sleeping or having a medical crisis. Since I'm making contact with them, I'm going to identify them. If they're in a reasonable spot, everything checks out, I move along. The whole contact takes less than 2 minutes. Most of these types will consider that being "hassled".<br><br><br>..I've been pulled over (even in the wrong) many times conformed and didn't give 'em attitude and they let me go..&nbsp; but I've been in cars while people got pulled over and they got smart with the cops.. 'n the tickets/arrests followed... so.. I say screw it.. allow yourself to be in bootcamp for about 15 minutes say yes Sir/Mam and let yourself off the hook..

 

[ParadiseParrot]

basically it comes down to this.<br><br>2 types of people are not your friend.<br><br>Criminals and LEO's the second being the most dangerous.<br><br>Criminals are easy to avoid. LEO's not so easy.<br><br>The thread started sharing was to avoid being a victim.<br><br>Maybe your a cop lover. Great. Maybe not. <br><br>But given the anti freedom coalition running things.<br>And that the LEO are there enforcement arm it make sense to avoid contact.<br><br>

 

[joshua33]

..I'm not a "cop lover" but if a criminal gets to my rig first,&nbsp;when I'm not around I don't mind a cop&nbsp;showing up.. to stop 'em.. <br><br>..n like someone said earlier we're dealing with human beings and many different aspects which will result in hundreds of outcomes.. so I will not resign myself to being afraid or seeing a cop as a danger (today) and that's even with getting those beatings in my younger years.. the cops in my area sentenced you right there in the street and sent ya home.. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">

 

[Scoundrel]

I don't mind a cop doing his job.&nbsp; He sees something unusual and stops to check it out.&nbsp; He doesn't know who's in that van until he checks.&nbsp; That's just doing his job.

 

[ParadiseParrot]

I envy you never having your civil rights violated.<br><br>Go watch the Boston house to house search videos.<br><br>Peace

 

[Salida Scarlett]

<br>I hear you on that one! I did watch the overkill they did on the Boston lockdown. I think the police state scenario is going to get much worse. My fears are they are going to start cracking down on urban van-dwellers etc, and make it harder than ever to stealth around. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/sneaky.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">

 

[Salida Scarlett]

I guess I just don't get it. Why should it be against the law to live in a van for cryin out loud? A van is not a park bench for heaven's sake. I guess they just have some mindset that your evil or a criminal if you live in a van or RV.

 

[twokniveskatie]

There is a fine line here between politics and opinion and the practical difficulties of being vandwellers. There is much valid in this discussion, that impacts many of us.

There are all kinds of law enforcement officers. They are first and foremost humans. I don't think we can draw absolutes about them any more than we can doctors or carpenters or nurses or truck drivers or van dwellers.

Lets avoid generalizations and judgements, and keep the focus on cheaprvliving.

 

[wrcsixeight]

I grew up at the NJ shore. &nbsp;I was and am no criminal, but cops were my enemy. &nbsp;It seemed like they were not there to serve and protect, but to harass and fine and to ruin lives. &nbsp;The full blown harassment and the total arrogance of authority filled me with an incalculable rage at the whole system.<br><br>My one run with the court system had me watching the officer just out and out lie and fabricate and my skumbag lawyer just chewed him up and the judge threw out the case and a few years later this liar became chief of police. &nbsp;But still, it was an expensive and stressful event that served no purpose other than to enrich the lawyers and fill me with hatred at the whole corrupt system.<br><br>Soon after I left NJ for good and returned briefly once or twice as a Van dweller with out of state tags and managed to not get harassed too badly, but I was followed often, and was asked numerous times to let them search my Van, and denied permission several times, despite having nothing to hide. &nbsp;They searched me anyway, and I was in genuine fear they would plant something and so overwhelmingly angry.<br><br>My privacy was violated and I was made to feel like an absolute worthless piece of Shite, and every time I saw a black and white I was filled with dread and fear, and this is still my reaction ever since.<br><br>Out here in California, I've had no issues with the police, van dwelling or driving. &nbsp;One ticket for a right on Red by a douchebag of a motorcycle cop and out of state tags but nothing that instilled in me a deep dark hatred of authority figures which east coast cops did. &nbsp;I don't mind their presence as one of my biggest fears is having my Van stolen or items inside stolen.<br><br>I was so used to being stared hard at, and followed on the east coast, that &nbsp;I now am always slightly amused at my reactions now when I see a cop, and they ignore me completely. &nbsp;I haven't had to urban boondock much in the last several years, but when the knock has happened, nothing came of it, but a "don't make a habit of it."<br><br>Most recently my parking spot lord asked me to drive him to the emergency room late at night as he was in a lot of pain passing a kidney stone. &nbsp;There was some sort of ManHunt going on with a bunch of roadblocks set up and helicopters circling, and I was driving his car. &nbsp;A cop asked to search the trunk. &nbsp;Glad my parking spot lord was carrying nothing other than golf clubs, but I wonder what would have happened if I said no. &nbsp;My query as to what/who they were looking for and what happened was unanswered and I was never able to find out what all the massive police presence was all about.<br><br>Unfortunately, the vehicles which allow our lifestyle will always be suspect, and as these scumbags seeking to do us harm get more brazen, we are more likely to encounter suspicion and treated as undesirables despite the fact the 99.99% of us just want to sleep in peace and be left alone while the rest of society chases that dangled carrot known as the American Dream<br><br><br>

 

[caseyc]

The police leave me alone, I don't have any problems with them, and I have a perfectly clean record in every way. &nbsp;However, my personal opinion of many or most police officers are that they are mostly interested in handing out driving tickets, especially for speeding on freeways. &nbsp;Their slogan to "serve and protect" appears completely meaningless to me. &nbsp;I've never had a police officer serve and protect me in any way, but then again, I haven't had the need fortunately. &nbsp;The last time I got a driving ticket, it was for a trumped-up charge of not yielding to a pedestrian at a crosswalk. &nbsp;I protested the ticket in court in front of a judge. &nbsp;The officer wrote a long, long essay of exactly what I did wrong in extreme detail, and the writing seemed very canned to me. &nbsp;Worse, it was also exaggerated to make my action appear worse than it really was. &nbsp;The judge read the long dissertation that the officer wrote, and it was a good long 5 minutes of reading the essay before the judge finally looked up from the ticket to look at me. &nbsp;The judge told me that after reading the long writing from the officer, the state of California failed to find me guilty, and the ticket was dismissed. &nbsp;The officer wasn't there in court on that day, but at least I got my justice that day. &nbsp;I'm sure there must be good police officers out there who do serve and protect the community, but that is not my impression of too many of them based on what I see from years of experience and observation.

 

[ParadiseParrot]

Truck drivers and carpenters don't threatened your well-being or safety. Police officers do.<br>Yes lets focus on cheapvanliving.And a good way to do this is aviod the police and criminals.<br>Both threats to cheapvanliving.No judgement are needed. Police will enforce the law and the<br>mobile resident of the US has no way to know the law in each little hamlet they might drive thru.<br>Police have bosses.And they will do as they are told whether or not it is constitutional as any employee does.<br>Stay Free and Enjoy all that is good.<br><br>