My LEO encounter that just happened

[Van-Tramp]

I am parked well outside city limits on Oregon State public land (legal to camp for 14 days here), well down a dirt road that requires most vehicles to sacrifice their paint job to the trees and bushes you have to push through to get to this spot. There was no way another human was going to come down this road, until just now... a Sheriff pulls up!

Now, many of you guys know my feelings on answering knocks on my van's door - I don't, even if it is a police officer. I do not consent to searches, and I do not answer too many questions when asked... not without a lawyer present. And you know I normally carry a pistol on my hip too. Now, let me tell you how that all went down.

The officer pulled up, and began exiting his vehicle. I walked up to him with a smile and extended my hand for a shake. Always a good first sign to any officer, that my hand is open, empty, and extended in a friendly gesture. He took it, shook it, and we exchanged initial pleasantries. He expressed his surprise in finding us so far off the beaten path and was blown away by the view we had over the town and ocean below. "This is a cool spot you found". It was all quite pleasant while he made sure we understood the camping limit (14 days) and the fire restrictions of the area. By this time, Kerri came out to join the conversation as well. At one point I thought he asked to look in the van, which I was going to tell him no, but it turned out that I misheard him. He made no request to look in or search the van.

Eventually the officer asked for ID... "for safety reasons"... all innocent about the request. Now here is the thing, by law I am not required to show my ID to an officer unless I am suspected of breaking a law. He knows this. I know this. Did I fret on it? Nope. I was going to happily show him my ID... but the problem is that I had just woke from a nap and left two things back in the van, one right on top of the other; my wallet, and my pistol. 

So, normally I would not offer up any more information then strictly required, but I also understand this guy is out in the woods talking to a guy he knows nothing about and I was just about to REACH FOR MY GUN. Instead of making what might be a deadly decision, I stopped the conversation (and Kerri, who was on her way back into the van already) and explained to the officer, "before I go reaching in there I want you to know that my wallet is right beside my pistol in there". "No problems, I'm happy to hear you are armed out here" he said, then decided my ID wasn't all that important after all.

We talked about the Monstaliner paint job on the van, our travels up the West coast this year, and South Dakota (he was from there originally and the plates on the van are South Dakota). He noted our names and was extremely pleasant through out the exchange. And so was I. It all went smoothly and he wished us happy travels as he pulled out. 

See what happened there? Absolutely nothing. A great guy that I would have handed a beer on any other day, as are most LEOs. He gave me no BS and I gave him none in return. I kept within my rights without being an A-hole and even cut him a little slack on the ID request. Although, he would have been turned down if he asked questions of any substance or to peek inside the van, but he did not. 

I had another nearly identical incident a few weeks back when we first arrived in Oregon. A LEO Ranger pulled up to our camp. This time I was carrying my pistol on my hip. And I did exactly the same thing, approached with a smile and an extended hand. We small-talked for a minute while he made sure I understood the rules of the area. I offered no info to him and he asked for none in return (not even my name). He wished us well and moved on as well. Easy-peasy.

I write this for two reason; 1) to show how the vast majority of LEO encounters in the wild play out (even while armed), and 2) to show that it is extremely easy to be polite and respectful to the LEO while not giving up any of your rights or protections.

 

[cyndi]

Most really do just want to get home, at the end of the day

I follow a cop on fb, Bangor, Maine Police Department; Lt Tim Cotton. He's actually human!
If you're not on fb you can read him on blauer's blog

https://www.facebook.com/bangormainepolice/

https://www.blauer.com/dispatch/stories-in-the-rafters-by-lt-tim-cotton/

 

[John61CT]

I assume soon as he runs your plate he can call your DL right up on his screen?

Outdoors setting and armed, you're birds of a feather.

If you were a PoC, queer, obviously Muslim and / or hardly spoke English, then may have gone differently. Or not, but "being human" cuts both ways, that's a pretty low bar for such a critical role in society.

 

[MrNoodly]

Not being confrontational goes a long way.

 

[QinReno]

Good story, VT. I'm a little curious to know where you were that he would even say something like "I'm happy to hear you are armed out here". Out Here? Where in Hell? A few weeks back I returned from 1-month camping in Oregon, and I've also been up there 2 or 3 other times. The only places I've ever felt even **remotely** worried in Oregon, or the US in general, has been in a few cities at night.

When I'm out, I always make up some reason to go over and purposely bother any camp hosts, workmen, and rangers. To the point of boring them, so they want to be on their way and get on with their jobs, . Since I don't carry weapons or do drugs, I don't worry about possible van searches. In Feb-March, I went through 4 ICE checkpoints in southern AZ and NM, and when the dude asked if he could look inside my van, I said "Be my guest", and I unlocked the doors. I guess I'm just plain naive.

 

[lenny flank]

In three years I've only had one LEO knock--and that was because someone had reported "somebody breaking into a vehicle" and they were just checking up on me.

I have found that most people who have continual LEO troubles, bring it on themselves.

 

[frater secessus]

Or fit any stereotype LEOs associate with "bad guys".

 

[bpdchief]

I just show them my badge and ID and it's all good...

 

[Van-Tramp]

Good story, VT. I'm a little curious to know where you were that he would even say something like "I'm happy to hear you are armed out here". Out Here? Where in Hell? 

It's been a bit worse this year over previous, but a lot of the public lands we have been in have clear signs of vagrancy and/or criminal acts. Most are innocent enough stuff, but just this week we ran into out THIRD burned out car crime-scene (obviously a stolen car that the thief brought up here to dispose of the evidence by fire) of the year (second one in OR alone and we haven't even been here a full month yet). We always run across people's person dump locations as well. On top of all that, there is illegal mining about (I met two fellas doing just that a few weeks back... not a lot of teeth between the two) and even though pot is legal on the west coast, illegal pot-grows still exist. 

It is not only the humans that are the problem. Sure, the closer we camp to 'civilization' the more of this stuff we see, but sometimes it is the wildlife. We ran across out first bear of the season just last week, there are mountain lions all across the mountains, and I have seen my first two rattlesnakes in my entire life just this year. Elk are not friendly in the slightest during birthing and mating seasons.

Just two weeks ago, while exploring the national forest, I thought I came across my first human corpse. I thought for sure it was that day, but upon further investigation it turned out not too be. I've run across many other corpses though (of the animal kind) clearly killed and mutilated by the local rednecks. Not hunting. Killing for fun kinda stuff. 

Basically, there are a shit-ton of good reasons that the officers (both from recent encounters) expressed gratitude of my being armed, but I would imagine that the main reason is a saying thanks to me for being self reliant. They won't have to come running to my rescue every dark and scary night that I hear a twig snap outside. They know I will take care of myself. Sheriffs are busy guys, and have a large region to patrol. They don't need additional work to do.

Oregon has proven to be a pretty nasty place. In the years I've been traveling, I've run into more signs of criminal activity on public lands in Oregon than any other state. Not just coastal Oregon either, but up in the mountains. Just outside of Bend, OR is some of the worst I have every seen anywhere...

 

[QinReno]

Thanks for the rundown, VT. I hope you are a little more specific on your blog on "locations" you feel are bad. The only place on the OR coast that I disliked for such reasons was around Coos Bay. I've spent 9-weeks total on 4 trips to OR, maybe I just don't go far enough into the back country on my trips. OTOH, I have backpacked and hiked in mountains all of my life, and wild animals were never a great fear, although I avoid grizzly bear country. More than 500 hikes into the Colorado mountains.

When I was boondocking on BLM land west of Terrebonne, north of Bend, the local idiot fool dickheads came in on 3 different afternoons with their semiautomatic weapons, some with bump stocks, and shot up bottles in nearby campsites. Broken glass everywheres, courtesy of idiots.
-----------

In his videos, Bob Wells is always promulgating that boondocking away from towns is safer than near towns. He is currently in Oregon, and not mentioned any problems. Maybe he is doing a disservice.

You also got me to wondering  about numbers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America

One thing is for sure, your neighbor's Rottweilers and Pit Bulls are SOBS:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America

 

[Van-Tramp]

I agree that the issues with wildlife are few and far between (extremely rare actually). They are a concern only in passing, and really only because of my dog who will chase anything... and bring that angry bear right back too me once he realizes his mistake. He's going to do that too me one day, I just know it

It is the people more than anything that I worry about. As you mentioned, the idiots who do things in our public lands that *destroy* that are my beef. I am one of those guys who do some shooting while on public lands, but I am the guy that packs out more trash then I brought into each area I shoot. It ticks me off to no end to see the trash (glass, paint cans, refrigerators, etc) left behind by these idiots... not to mention all the shell casings. Now, I understand that they (and me) have just as much right to shoot on public lands as camp on them, but it really isn't that hard to clean up after yourself. If you can haul the fridge out to shoot up, then you can just as easily haul it back out of the forest, right? I just recently wrote about a spot where I camped, shot, and picked up after some recreational shooters - https://www.van-tramp.com/wp/stumbling-into-exactly-what-i-needed/

Also, consider that I spend much of my week at the dead-end of a dirt road. I can't simply drive off if I get a truck load of rednecks pull up and start something. There is no going around a vehicle blocking the one and only path, and there is no reasoning with morons. So, I make sure that if there is an "altercation" it will be as lopsidedly unfair as possible... in my favor. I make sure to carry greater firepower and in larger quantities, and spend the time training with them, to ensure any fight is in my favor even if there are multiple of them.

Backpacking - I have done my fair share over the recent years as well. I find that if requires any effort to get to a spot (like a few miles hike) then it filters out 99.9% of the riff-raff right there. These types don't have the common sense to pickup after themselves, they sure as heck aren't going to hike. It's another reason I love me some backpacking.

 

[QinReno]

There is no going around a vehicle blocking the one and only path, and there is no reasoning with morons. So, I make sure that if there is an "altercation" it will be as lopsidedly unfair as possible... in my favor. I make sure to carry greater firepower and in larger quantities, and spend the time training with them, to ensure any fight is in my favor even if there are multiple of them.

Backpacking - I have done my fair share over the recent years as well. I find that if requires any effort to get to a spot (like a few miles hike) then it filters out 99.9% of the riff-raff right there. 

You acknowledge what the serious problem is. Not so much bears and elk as local dickheads with guns. Bob Wells also indicates in his videos that you're generally safer the farther away from towns that you are. In terms of shootouts with the locals, I'm equivocal. If out in the country, it's probably fairly easy to spot where they come to. A big clearing with garbage and shell casings, and mostly empty beer bottles and broken glass, everywheres. I wouldn't camp there.

For reference, since it pissed me off so much, the attached pic shows where I boondocked west of Terrebonne. I was camped to the lower left, and the idiots came to the 2 campsites directly above for bottle practice. Luckily only in the afternoon. There is only **one** place along the cliffs there that you even can climb down to the river - the circular area right in the middle. What the fools did was climb halfway down the cliff and put their bottles on the rocks and then shot them to hell. When I got there, there was no broken glass on those rocks. When I left, the rocks were covered with broken glass, courtesy of the fools and idiots.

 

[MrNoodly]

I was in a National Forest, in Oregon. I had the van doors open and had just settled in for a nap when I heard a truck drive up. It was a ranger and he asked if I was okay. I assured him I was. He said he was just checking to make sure I was alive. I half-jokingly asked if they got a lot of bodies out there.

"Yes, unfortunately."

"Well, it's a nice place to die."

"It is that."

 

[QinReno]

I was in a National Forest, in Oregon. I had the van doors open and had just settled in for a nap when I heard a truck drive up. It was a ranger and he asked if I was okay. I assured him I was. He said he was just checking to make sure I was alive.

Mr N, obviously what you need to do is to setup an awning outside the van, and take your naps under there. Then it'll be easier for the rangers to tell if you're still alive. There is what's called "O-sign" and "Q-sign". The former is generally being asleep, and the latter with your mouth open and your tongue hanging out is rather more critical.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b624cf65aa30b66aa30465bee8091cd8-c

 

[MrNoodly]

There is what's called "O-sign" and "Q-sign". 

With me there's also the Z-sign. Z-z-z-z-z-z-z... z-z-z-z-z-z-z... z-z-z-z-z-z-z...

 

[DannyB1954]

I got pulled over last week just minding my own business etc. I just made a turn onto a main road and was headed home. He got behind me turned on lights and siren. I pulled over. Here in Nevada when they run the plate it tells them if the registered owner has a CCW permit. I lowered the window and kept both hands on the wheel. They were looking for someone else that drives an old silver dodge van. I got an apology for the stop, but I really was not upset. They look for people that have been causing harm to others, so I hope they get them.

I don't mind proving who I am. There are a lot of evil people on the run from many different places. Some of them hiding in the boonies.
It would trouble me more if they didn't bother to see who was in their area. Some bad guy getting away because someone was lazy is not good either. It would be easier for them to just drive past. When they first approach, they have little idea who or what they will be dealing with. Running a plate does not mean the vehicle isn't being driven by someone else.

 

[tx2sturgis]

They were looking for someone else that drives an old silver dodge van. 

Maybe. Police are allowed to lie in the course of their job.

Just food for thought.

 

[QinReno]

Anymore, I'm sure that all LE agencies have instant access via radio to all sorts of online criminal databases. Check your license plate, and they've gotcha. There was the recent thread about the guy boondocking near Flagstaff, and they arrested him for an outstanding warrant in Oregon (IIRC).

Your days looting and hiding are over, Mr Pirate.

 

[Van-Tramp]

You are correct QinReno. Most agencies have access to all sorts of databases or people and their records (and permits). A license plate will get them the name of the person who OWNS/REGISTERS that vehicle, but not all names in the party.

As an example; I can have my van owned by my own personal company (and LLC or Corp). As I stated above, my ID does not have to be shown unless I am actually suspect of committing a crime. And the 5th Amendment protects me from being forced to give me name, address, or DOB as well. He has the right to run the plates (they are not private) but that doesn't always give an officer much info.

I don't take it that far of course, but my van is not registered in my name, so he had to just take my word for it in the end.

On a side note, my older brother used my name, DL#, and SSN for years to elude police when he got pulled over. He was (was, he is dead now) only two years older than me and we shared the same physical appearances, so it was easy for him to just say he forgot his wallet at home and provide my name and DOB. Worked every time for him, even getting me a few traffic tickets in the process.

PS - Police ARE required to give their name, rank, and station they work at or risk being personally fined, but you must ask. They do not automatically have to provide that info. Yo umay even request it in written form (a business card would probably do I imagine)

 

[QinReno]

I don't take it that far of course, but my van is not registered in my name, so he had to just take my word for it in the end.
...
On a side note, my older brother used my name, DL#, and SSN for years to elude police when he got pulled over. 
...
PS - Police ARE required to give their name, rank, and station they work at or risk being personally fined, but you must ask. They do not automatically have to provide that info. You may even request it in written form (a business card would probably do I imagine)

1. There still may be a gotcha. If the van is "not" registered in your name, and possibly found in some LEO database, or the registered owner found in the database, then they might confiscate the van, and leave you out in the boonies with nothing but your water bottle. 

2. I think I would have disowned that brother, LOL. I had a cousin like that, who always got me in trouble.

3. I did have a run in with a Reno Police officer a year and more ago, and he did not have a business card, but gave me some sort of ID, I forget what now. FWIW, on that particular matter, I "voluntarily" gave him my ID (because I thought that I had been wronged in the matter and wanted a paper trail), and then that got me embroiled in a civil case with a 3rd party that went on for the past 12-months. Was just resolved exactly 2-weeks ago tomorrow. Ultimately, the judge decided I am a "nice guy" and dropped the case, but I'm not sure if I'm in some global database now, on the DHS watch list, on and on. Probably so. I figure my best course in the future is to always be courteous and open with people in authority, wherever I might meet them. I have nothing to hide, and personally I think that's the best procedure, .

As a corollary to this, when I was at the LTVA in Quartzsite in Feb, I was talking to a nearby group of campers, and the one guy who drove a 33' Class-A and who never shut up, talked about how he "always" demanded his 4th Amendment rights when going through ICE checkpoints, etc. I thought he was low on common sense for several reasons.