Keto Lifestyle

[Chris Anne the Mum]

but if you are an extreme low carb eater, as in less than 10 total carbs per day the conversion doesn't matter much if your protein eating grams are higher and it does convert....

I get ya on the chicken also being a lower fat meat....but one easy way is to eat the skin.  Only chicken I handle now is chicken thighs with some fat poured back over it to eat or I sautee breasts in some oil and then pour yummy homemade alfredo sauce over it.

Nice points, Roamer!  I forgot to mention the skin and chicken fat - this is what makes chicken so delightful!

I hadn't heard the theory you mention on lower carb diet being able to handle some of the protein turning to carbs.  Makes much sense to me and thanks for pointing it out!

 

[Queen]

I used to think I was a deprived hard core carnivore (my wife is a veg), until I started keto and had unlimited access to meat... now I’m completely grossed out by it. Some of it is tasty, but a little goes a long way with me.

I’m more inclined these days to have an avocado drizzled with olive oil and fresh cracked black pepper.

 

[RoamerRV428]

yea Queen, I don't get grossed out, I go thru spurts of what I want.

I can live on ribeye til one day I cook it and I can barely gag it down.....then I switch mostly to seafood, til one day I can't stand another shrimp and I go back to steak....this time a NY strip, different taste to me and I am like you that when I don't want meat, I hit seafood. Also at some point if it all goes south I live on bacon and eggs I can handle that all the time for some reason.

Your avocado sounds delish. Higher fat, lower kcals and great for VLC (very low carb)...not a darn thing wrong with that.

 

[RoamerRV428]

Chris Ann, yea it is all about the carb count one is ingesting.

I think the trouble with 'going low carb' is a lot of people just don't count them, thinking that if I give up bread and chips and ice cream I should be in keto It just doesn't work that way, a carb is a carb is a carb no matter where it comes from. Took me a bit to figure out the basic little science to it. I think I tried to 'over-complicate' lc but it failed, lol....always trying to find ways to keep the junky foods in my life and be LC....never worked.

 

[regis101]

There has been more info in the last two pages than the hour's of internet searches I have done.
Thank you. It gives a bit more appreciation to the matter.

It seems the emphasis is on "Good Fats". I'd have to be aware of that fine line so the cholesterol word doesn't become part of the equation.

 

[Queen]

Roamer, yeah, I can definitely do seafood. And I’m okay with pork... it’s chicken and beef that makes me want to hurl.

Regis, I hear you, it’s a black hole of info and misinformation out there.

 

[RoamerRV428]

cholesterol is actual a good thing to the body if it isn't paired up with overly processed sugary junky foods that are produced today.

many start a vlc program and their chol. goes up. That is to be expected. It takes longer than one would think to turn around chol. numbers. Just stick with the good fats and dump the sugar(carbs) from your life and chol. doesn't become an enemy it once was. Plus it is good to read things like The Great Cholesterol Myth and other info on it. Every medical person tries to 'scare' ya into bad chol. info out there....I can't even imagine how many chol. pills are sold each year? a doozy on that medication I bet!

adopting a vlc lifestyle can mean blood pressure meds are dumped, type 2 meds are dumped, chol. meds are dumped, reflux type meds are dumped and so much more. People can heal on vlc from having to use maintenance drugs needed from poor eating.

 

[Dingfelder]

I used to think I was a deprived hard core carnivore (my wife is a veg), until I started keto and had unlimited access to meat... now I’m completely grossed out by it.  Some of it is tasty, but a little goes a long way with me.

I’m more inclined these days to have an avocado drizzled with olive oil and fresh cracked black pepper.

Unfortunately, keto doesn't mean unlimited access to meat.  Keto is a low carb, moderate protein (20-25%), high fat diet.  

The problem is that protein can be turned into glucose(glucogenesis) in the liver.  That is, sugar.  In other words, the very blood-sugar and insulin/fat storing response you're hoping to avoid or perhaps even reverse over time, can be .  This is why you can live with very low or even zero carbs but still have enough sugar in your blood to survive  just fine.  An example from real life is the Inuit, whose traditional diet was all fat and protein, because no edible plants grew in their regions.  They didn't lapse into diabetic comas because they had adequate protein that could be converted into glucose(sugar) in the liver.

 

[Queen]

Yes, I’m aware of that, it’s all spelled out in exacting detail in Dr. Fungs writings. Perhaps unlimited is a poor choice of word, it feels unlimited to me after 30 years of near vegetarian living... but in reality is one serving a day of meat. So, so gross to me.

 

[RoamerRV428]

yea that is why I never say I am keto

I am vlc and zero carb eater so I can say unlimited. I can say I use no macros. I don't follow a 'listed meal plan' so I can eat anything I want actually in my day LOL

Keto is a structured named plan.
Keto isn't a plan for some. All how you word what you are doing kinda. But of course the thread was listed as keto lifestyle so it can go either way.

 

[Queen]

Same, I never say keto (although we’re posting in a keto thread). I’m LCHF (low carb, high fat, with moderate protein). Seems to be working for me.

 

[RoamerRV428]

yea I see a lot of LCHF typed out.

you know I don't bother with the HF anymore cause I eat VLC (very low carb) or ZC (zero carb) and my fat content is always going to kinda high

I love all the way people abbreviate their plans.


keto is also just short for saying ketosis, so the keto can have a few meanings

 

[Dingfelder]

It does seem that saying almost anything about a diet or eating lifestyle provokes all sorts of comments, many of which could lead to arguments, many of which are very uninformed. I can't tell you how many times people have told me that, for instance, that having dessert won't contribute to weight gain. It's rarely worth engaging with the mental gymnastics people have to go through to justify some of their ideas.

 

[Doubleone]

...LCHF... HF.... VLC (very low carb) or ZC (zero carb)... keto is also just short for saying ketosis...

All describe essentially the same thing... eat less carbs, more fat, moderate protein.  I've also heard it told as being 'like Atkins but with more fat' or 'fat adapted diet.'   I try not to get hung up in all the terminology because that just builds walls and some people may even feel the need to vigorously defend one description over another.  I totally get it... it's very common for people to think of ketosis (keto) as a regimented diet plan because that's just what fits our frame of reference.   The health benefits come with maintaining a lifestyle in at least a mild state of ketosis.  Hence, I find it helpful to think  of ketosis (keto) as more of a lifestyle, not a diet...  I'm sure someone who eats vegetarian or vegan could similarly term their regime as a vegan lifestyle, etc.  

There is no one way to do it... every individual is unique and has different nutritional needs at different times.  In actual practice, over time, various activities, and seasons I tend to cycle in and out of a state of more or less ketosis.  So one could say everyone of those descriptions might apply to me at any given time depending on my activity level and workout intensity.  I eat more carbs and protein with increased workout intensity or when I need protein to rebuild muscle.  However, as mentioned earlier, too much protein will convert to glucose, and in fact that was the very thing I was doing wrong when I first started.  Later, I discovered quite by accident that some carbs are good for recovery, helping to regenerate muscle glycogen after an intense workout.  Other times, I'll get really disciplined, like under 30 carbs, if I want to cut a couple pounds or if I was too liberal with the carbs and got sick (I call it the carb flu).  Striving for zero carbs helps me reset...  Here's a link to a 2017 article I found very helpful in understanding what to eat and when... Periodized Nutrition for Athletes.

 

[RoamerRV428]

Many a war has been started over nutrition and all. Some forums go into crazy about it, especially vegan vs. vegetarian vs. carnivore....holy cow it can be scary to the max I learned to not get involved anymore...only way to survive HA

 

[SLB_SA]

I like this takeaway from https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog...mate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089
"A ketogenic diet could be an interesting alternative to treat certain conditions, and may accelerate weight loss. But it is hard to follow and it can be heavy on red meat and other fatty, processed, and salty foods that are notoriously unhealthy. We also do not know much about its long-term effects, probably because it’s so hard to stick with that people can’t eat this way for a long time. It is also important to remember that “yo-yo diets” that lead to rapid weight loss fluctuation are associated with increased mortality. Instead of engaging in the next popular diet that would last only a few weeks to months (for most people that includes a ketogenic diet), try to embrace change that is sustainable over the long term. A balanced, unprocessed diet, rich in very colorful fruits and vegetables, lean meats, fish, whole grains, nuts, seeds, olive oil, and lots of water seems to have the best evidence for a long, healthier, vibrant life."

 

[StarEcho]

Other than the fruits and whole grains, you are describing a keto diet....just sayin...Doesn't sound so hard to maintain to me.....I've been on it for over a year and it really isn't difficult. The hardest part is getting away from processed foods, so the so-called balanced diet mentioned in your link would be just as difficult to maintain.

 

[Doubleone]

^^ Yeah, it's quite humorous how he worded that, kinda seems to contradict himself.  But notice the blatant bias in this statement "...it can be heavy on red meat and other fatty, processed, and salty foods that are notoriously unhealthy."   He's openly characterizing ketosis as a 'popular diet' and 'fad diet' while also questioning sustainability over long term...  Like I've said it's a lifestyle not a diet.  I'm somewhat liberal in my nutrition regime and the only really processed foods I eat are the same as any other low-fat food-pyramid American diet (coffee, occasional cold cuts, diet soda, adult beverage) but I eat less of that now than before.  I suppose technically my C8 MCT oil and olive oils are processed, but I buy the cold-processed without use of solvents.  I suppose maybe he's mistaking my diet of veggies (organic when available), grass-fed butter and steak, free-range chicken, fish, nuts, and dairy as processed in some way too...  Interesting that most processed foods include sugar in some form and the labels often obscure this with the various names of sugar.  Eliminating sugar is one of the best ways to avoid processed foods.  So...obviously he doesn't know what low-carb folks eat.  I'd be inclined to laugh it off as written by someone who 'drank the cool-aid' but unfortunately it's not funny.  His article certainly gives an appearance of credibility because he's an MD associated with Harvard but in the end its simply a biased editorial/opinion piece espousing traditional food pyramid.  

There are some peculiar politics within the medical community.  One physician friend told me they needed to be very careful and guarded about what they say or publish about keto for fear of being sanctioned...  I firmly believe most all MD's are very well-meaning but I can't ignore studies that show anywhere from a 15-25 year lag from medical research to patient treatment (bench to bedside).  An extreme example was a 25-year lag from research of beta-blockers to the actual treatment of patients.  Dr. Ancel Keys Seven Countries study was refuted around 2015, so at this rate it'll be about 2030 by the time medical practice catches up and endorses low carb...  Of course, that's another discussion that tends to divide and inflame, and it always seems to goes tit-for-tat.  For every article showing a lag, another article purports more or less lag, and some might even cite a dire necessity to proceed more slowly for caution... 

People are creatures of habit, we fear and resist change.  We compare with old knowledge and try fit new knowledge into familiar categories and constructs.  MD's are no different, very well-meaning, but nonetheless they're just people too.  He's sharing what he believes to be correct, his truth, and I certainly can't fault that.  The wheels of medicine turn slowly.  Critically read the most credible articles you can find; look for bias and tear them apart.  Dig deeper and read their source articles, and the sources of the sources, etc.  The answers are there, decide for yourself, live your own truth, and be well!

 

[Trebor English]

The PC (politically correct) line that is government approved is that we should be eating pyramids made of hole grains and carbs.  Fine ground flour and powdered sugar are the best.  Cheerios, Fruit Loops, macaroni, and donuts are hole grain foods. 

I have a book (ink on paper, Gutenberg technology, unchanged by search engines) from 1996 that suggests differently.  That old book is consistent with my blood glucose meter readings.  I'm going with what my blood glucose meter tells me.  Daily oatmeal doses may be good for lowering LDL but they raise havoc with blood glucose.  I avoid powdered sugar, fine ground flower, oatmeal and pyramids.  In the end we are each responsible for our own diet.

 

[RoamerRV428]

yea Cheerios are part of a heart healthy diet.

ugh

thing is if your menu is junk anyway, then getting rid of bacon and eggs and subbing Cheerios probably could help lower chol. etc. cause the rest of your menu is full processed sugar and high bad fats and you put that all together you got a heart attack menu. Cheerios can say sub this out and you might do better, it is true kinda if your menu is so bad, then yea, a bowl of cheerios will be better for ya than bacon and eggs and toast slathered with butter and hash browns. While this makes sense it is SO OFF it is frightening! Makes it sound like cheerios is some kinda wonder food, nothing could be farther from the truth.

remarks and mixed up fantasy ads drive me nuts but like Trebor said, everyone has to maneuver thru it all to find the truth on nutrition, we can't take blind ads as fact. We are told so many lies and we all know it Time for all to pony up and learn vs. being led by the almight ad dollars and greed.