Insulation Question

[tx2sturgis]

I did not see this ridicule, but what I did see was several argumentative then vulgar and hostile remarks, which I removed.

Keep in mind I manually approved tactrix myself. But the posts quickly became hostile, and we dont do that here.

 

[maki2]

Eliminating bugs and mold issues is primarily addressed by preventing them from getting into the area where the insulation is placed. That is part of the installation process that needs to be thought through and then suitable measures taken to prevent bugs, dirt and moisture from getting into insulated wall cavities. Unfortunately many people who do builds inside of various types of structure have never before had a need for such knowledge. They also are sometimes forced into a situation of taking up Van life with little to no time to acquire the knowledge. So they do builds in a hurry, often in places such as dispersed camp sites or the parking lots of Home Depot. Those places do not have access to specialty insulation choices. They use what they can walk into the store and buy off the shelf that is quick, inexpensive and easy to install. There is nothing wrong with that approach. But unfortunately they often have no mentor or access to excellent instructions from Van building professionals. Many times they just find a YouTube video and copy what they see. Of course YouTube has no overall screening for good instructions and methods versus bad ones.

If you want to put hempcrete insulation into your build then go for it. I myself have already completed my build and done so with a great deal of prior experience, knowledge, forethought and care. I have had no insect, mold or rodent issues in my vintage fiberglass, travel trailer in the past three years of full time on the road. I did my first van conversion in 1983. I already understood a lot about insulation standards in wall cavities as at that time I was a fabricator and installer of interior components in aircraft at Boeing where I put in plenty of insulation bats as well
a sound deadening materials. So I learned at an early adult age to “think like an engineer” when thinking about what materials and adhesives are suitable for a vehicle in motion. They need to be able to withstand the stress of severe and frequent movements. Hempcrete just won’t work well for that. It was not designed for that kind of environment.

 

[LargeMarge]

...insulation out there. It decimates all...

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a)
decimate : reduce by ten percent.
.
In this AI-generated rebuttal to realism
.
www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/the-original-definition-of-decimate#:~:text=The%20issue%20that%20many%20people,mean%20%E2%80%9Cto%20destroy%20a%20large
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the algo attempts to re-write history while turning our Greek-Latin-Germanic foundations into merely another forced-adaptation 'living document', frillily resplendent with ever-flexible definitions du jour and politic-correct fillers to appease current students and recent graduates of the American university industry.
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This week, if we allow 'decimate' to devastate, decinerate, and disparage, where would we stop!
Next week, will those vandals and barbarian hordes 'decimate' our very atmo, turning our beloved air into so much simplistic vapor, to be ignored... soon to be lost, except as some oddity mentioned as some footnote in yet another dreary textbook, its university professor author requiring its purchase in exchange for a passing grade in some dysfunctional lecture series...
... but without it, your entire student loan bundle comes instantly due irregardless of your pathetic ('worthless') degree!
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There.
I said it.
Ruining our beautiful words cannot be taken lightly.
It is an assault on everything good and decent, and everybody with any sense of justice must stand strong!
Let your voice be heard!
Lean out your window, and shout at the top of your lungs...
..."THIS'S MY LANGUAGE! NOBODY WILL DECIMATE IT!"
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b)
I think insulation is good.
I think we can insulate against all forms of trespass:
* temperature variations
* sounds
* other destructive incursions.

 

[LargeMarge]

Yea but foam is a garbage insulator, burns, has a problem with bugs and mold. So maybe take a slight increase in weight for an insulator that protects better in every other way.

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Excellent points!
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And perhaps an examination of the causes of temperature variations is in order... but leaving the discussion of buggy mold and moldy bugs for an evening of scary stories around the camp-fire [involuntarily scratches simultaneous itches and imagined insect infestation, while scanning for encroaching buggy mold sneakily headed my direction]?
.
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a)
In our ExpeditionVehicle, 'yes', we use excessively obsessive amounts of insulation...
... plus we engineered air-gaps between each layer.
We think this captured air -- and its prohibition on convective travel -- reduces temperature variations by eliminating the [!!! caution !!! split infinitive ahead] path by which heat and the lack of heat shift.
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b)
Irregardless of insulation material, our collective species temperature goal is 'comfort'.
As long as the goal is reasonably achievable, is the individual decision about material a matter best-hidden between the claddings of walls and ceilings?
.
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c)
I think we can all agree, any of our time-proven insulation substances and insulation techniques are just dandy.
I think we can all agree, certain new-fangled contraptions can seem weird...
... and down-right impossible to comprehend.
.
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d)
I support your attempts to allow each position to be tested in your rig, your results published, the discussions open and free, with the goal of 'comfort' highest in mind and spirit.
.
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d)
I like the word 'ridiculous'.
I use it often to describe mud, bogs, and moldy bugs.

 

[LargeMarge]

...hemp matting...flammable, but if you have almost any kind of fire in any RV it's unlikely to matter much about the insulation...based on the fires I've...

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re : flammable, fire, fires
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For a moment, let's shift focus to a fire inside a rig.
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Based on my experience, pretty much everything in a vehicle seems designed to burn, burn efficiently, burn ruthlessly, burn until the vehicle is rubbish and must be replaced:
* upholstery
* insulation on the miles of wires
* foam in the seats and dash
* carpet
* head-liner
* tires
* under-coating
... and the liquid in the fuel tank(s) and crankcase.
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Either three minutes or two, I think stuffing straw in the walls makes zero difference in the rig burning to a puddle of coagulated metals and cinders.
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I think prevention is better than on-the-job learning to fight fires.
And even if the fire only destroys part of the rig, could you trust the frame to remain straight and capable of resisting stresses for the next couple hundred thousand miles of bouncing?
After the temper engineered into the metals is modified, certain safety questions come forward.
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Can a burned wheel or transmission be made serviceable?
Unlikely.
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My suggestion:
* grab your Bug-Out Bag, and bail.
You can do very little to delay the inevitable outcome.
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An aside:
In our ExpeditionVehicle, we carry six full-size extinguishers.
I refuse to go down without a fight.
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I was tall and strong for my age.
1968, at 16yo, I was a volunteer fire-fighter in a rural district.
I witnessed aircraft fires, structure fires, vehicle fires, fields and forests aflame.
Do I realistically believe I can stop a fire inside our rig?
I tend to believe in miracles.

 

[Happy Camper]

I'm late to the party here and playing catch up.

So you insulate with something similar to concrete but lighter? That will break and crumble due to road vibration and any flexing that might occur?

Sounds like a concrete solution.

 

[Frood]

Irregardless

Really? And right after your excellent exposé on decimate...

 

[RvNaut]

it's THE BEST insulation out there.

..and completely irrelevant to VanLife.. Hemp is used similar to a rammed earth building, and is of no real use to the nomad existence....

Yes, it has great potential in a S&B situation, but I do not see where it has any value for vehicles dwellers. Hemp is also a stellar fabric in a lot of situations.

 

[rruff]

Hemp is used similar to a rammed earth building, and is of no real use to the nomad existence....

Actually I think the best use of hemp for nomads would be as fabric for PMF construction. It would cost more than cotton canvas and not really be any better, but you could tell everyone it was made of hemp, and that might get you a few virtue signaling points...

 

[Happy Camper]

Actually I think the best use of hemp for nomads would be as fabric for PMF construction. It would cost more than cotton canvas and not really be any better, but you could tell everyone it was made of hemp, and that might get you a few virtue signaling points...

Then you would get those that would try to cut off small pieces and smoke them, not realizing that's not how it works.

 

[user 22017]

..and completely irrelevant to VanLife.. Hemp is used similar to a rammed earth building, and is of no real use to the nomad existence....

Yes, it has great potential in a S&B situation, but I do not see where it has any value for vehicles dwellers. Hemp is also a stellar fabric in a lot of situations.

Would it be helpful for those not wanting foam or other chemical types of insulation?

 

[rruff]

Would it be helpful for those not wanting foam or other chemical types of insulation?

No... it has zero relevance as a mobile insulation material... poor at insulating, and far too heavy.

If you want a natural material that works well, wool is popular.

 

[Happy Camper]

No... it has zero relevance as a mobile insulation material... poor at insulating, and far too heavy.

If you want a natural material that works well, wool is popular.

I've never dealt with it, but that was my first impression. When you have "crete" in a material name, it's going to be strong, solid, and somewhat heavy.

It was confusing reading the thread why he was so insistent it was the answer for mobile. And quite adamantly so.

 

[RvNaut]

Would it be helpful for those not wanting foam or other chemical types of insulation?

Wool would be better at that point

 

[user 22017]

No... it has zero relevance as a mobile insulation material... poor at insulating, and far too heavy.

If you want a natural material that works well, wool is popular.

I don't have a van, but if I did, I would avoid any insulation made from petroleum. Vans are so tiny, just how heavy would it be?

Hemp sounds like a decent product, if this article is accurate: https://www.attainablehome.com/what-is-hemp-insulation/

Anyone know much about this product:

https://www.aerogel.com/product/spaceloft/

 

[rruff]

I don't have a van, but if I did, I would avoid any insulation made from petroleum. Vans are so tiny, just how heavy would it be?

Too heavy.

I wasn't exaggerating when I said it's 10x heavier than the foam I used as a structural and insulative core in sandwich panels. Even if I could use hempcrete instead (which I couldn't because it would fall apart), my camper shell would have weighed 3,000 lbs instead of 750 lbs. Plus the R value would have been 1/3rd as much. That isn't a tiny difference.

If tactrix had advocated using hemp-wool instead of sheep-wool in wall cavities, he might have had a viable case. I mean... wool would still be better in a van, but it wouldn't be totally ridiculous. As it was, he advocated something that was completely ridiculous, and was very rude about it besides.

I understand that you don't have much knowledge about materials and building things, but some of us do.

 

[user 22017]

Too heavy.

I wasn't exaggerating when I said it's 10x heavier than the foam I used as a structural and insulative core in sandwich panels. Even if I could use hempcrete instead (which I couldn't because it would fall apart), my camper shell would have weighed 3,000 lbs instead of 750 lbs. Plus the R value would have been 1/3rd as much. That isn't a tiny difference.

If tactrix had advocated using hemp-wool instead of sheep-wool in wall cavities, he might have had a viable case. I mean... wool would still be better in a van, but it wouldn't be totally ridiculous. As it was, he advocated something that was completely ridiculous, and was very rude about it besides.

I understand that you don't have much knowledge about materials and building things, but some of us do.

I didn't read the whole thread. I assumed he had crete mixed up with wool. He was rude, but no more so than those who laughed at him.

 

[Happy Camper]

It's a much better insulator then steel wool. I know that much

 

[Gr8ful]

IF you want foam board & are worried about fire THERMAX foam bd has a Class A fire rating & available at most building material stores.
THERMAX™ Sheathing is specially designed to have a Class A fire rating and can be used in a range of concealed and exposed applications, above and below grade, and can be used in exterior walls. Because of its improved fire performance, THERMAX™ Sheathing is especially appropriate for hourly rated assemblies.

 

[maki2]

Is it possible that there are some postings from dedicated users of a variety of hemp related product?
It is a pretty popular plant…