Illegal Obstruction of Public Land Access

[DLTooley]

The Backcountry Hunters and Anglers are quoted in this article. I'm acquainted with them in Western Colorado, great folks.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/ways-landowners-block-public-access/

 

[rruff]

First time I saw this was 30 years ago. It's gotten a lot worse since... people commandeering public land and threatening to kill anyone who "trespasses".

And... the authorities know all about it and do nothing... ever.

 

[bullfrog !]

It has become more common I believe but actually mapping sites and ATV and UTV clubs are improving the situation for many as they use their influence to keep public lands open to recreational uses.

 

[NctryBen]

Our township has had to fight this from time to time when people move in and block access.

 

[Gr8ful]

Years ago I hunted on federal land & was always the 1st one in the woods, didn't go in for lunch. One morning about 9AM a guy came crashing thru the woods & claimed I was in his spot. After seeing I wasn't leaving he asked if I saw anything. My standard answer was I did get a sound shot off just before 1st light, never saw him again.

 

[DLTooley]

What I recall seeing frequently are signs that attempt to imply an area is private property, most common is a private property sign on the side of the road. That side may well be private, but per the DeLorme Topographic Atlas the other side is not.

The road is almost always never private.

 

[bullfrog !]

I’ve mainly seen it in areas of open range on BLM land where the leasing rancher has considered the adjacent BLM land his and a professional hunting guide paying him or being allowed illegally to post large areas on which trophy class animals are basically being “protected” and “raised” creating a huge profit incentive for both the guide and rancher come hunting season. In the past, before when land boundaries were often intentionally unclear, before apps like GPS based maps available on the internet make it possible to show authorities the illegal activities hopefully knowing the video of the interaction will appear on YouTube and hopefully disputes could be resolved by impartial court rulings, as often the local authorities and guides have a close working “relationship”. Try working with a local Sheriff whose family owns and operates most of the large ranching operations in the area to get cooperation. Lol!!! I once asked a Sheriff after seeing his family ranch brand on a large group of cattle on BLM land before they were allowed there if a rancher puts out livestock early in BLM land illegally and I hit a calf on a public road passing through the area with my truck damaging it can I keep the meat and call it even? His reply was “You know we hang rustlers out here.”Lol!!!

 

[DLTooley]

I’ve mainly seen it in areas of open range on BLM land where the leasing rancher has considered the adjacent BLM land his and a professional hunting guide paying him or being allowed illegally to post large areas on which trophy class animals are basically being “protected” and “raised” creating a huge profit incentive for both the guide and rancher come hunting season. In the past, before when land boundaries were often intentionally unclear, before apps like GPS based maps available on the internet make it possible to show authorities the illegal activities and hopefully disputes could be resolved by impartial court rulings, as often the local authorities and guides have a close working “relationship”.

I've seen Forest Service gates closed legally that had that private game reserve effect, the one I remember was south of Pagosa Springs in SW Colorado.

On Arizona State Land Trust Land I've seen in North of Tucson, by the leasing Rancher. I didn't challenge it, or research it further. I don't know if a permit trumps a lease or not, do recall that these State Trust Lands are frequently posted - it often is not made clear that a permit grants you access.

 

[rruff]

What I recall seeing frequently are signs that attempt to imply an area is private property, most common is a private property sign on the side of the road.

I'm talking about gates, fences, cameras... and signs promising lethal bodily harm... to anyone who crosses the boundary. Similar to what was in the article. And these are usually blocking public roads, on public land. Sometimes the roads are going through private land, but on a easement that has been recorded and in use for 150 years, blocking the only access.

...hopefully disputes could be resolved by impartial court rulings, as often the local authorities and guides have a close working “relationship”. Try working with a local Sheriff whose family owns and operates most of the large ranching operations in the area to get cooperation.

Exactly. It's federal public land, but even the local federal authorities seem to do nothing. A lack of funding is usually cited.

 

[bullfrog !]

Adding to the problem is in that area many federal lands are “land locked”, a situation that should not be. Access to public lands definitely needs to be clarified to many individuals and as more and more people use these areas the problem becomes more apparent. I’ve seen nice new large houses built on public lands with no one questioning ownership, Crazy! Definitely an area ripe for confrontations.

 

[rruff]

Are people really building houses on public land? Seems way too risky. There are a lot of parcels of private land spread throughout public land, though. And some of these are recent acquisitions due to local pull and corruption.

 

[bullfrog !]

When you fence, gate and own all the surrounding property and no one can physically access it or has a reason to want to after removing any physical evidence of existing property lines several years ago you can dispute any claims. Usually it is a family member which has been told they will inherit all the property someday anyway. What is really concerning is the amount of ground water being pumped out of the tremendous number of private unregistered wells these days. Government isn’t interested in checking small plots of land locked BLM land as it is usually not worth the court costs to them to mess with. I haven’t seen any instances where it was less than 100 acres and publicly promoted as in an advertisement for a commercial campground that was easily accessed via a contracted BLM roadway which the road inspectors from the BLM noticed.

 

[Gr8ful]

I'm in Michigan fairly close to Lake Michigan. People pay millions to own a spot on one of the great lakes. It's been ruled anyone can walk the beach up to where the high waterline is. This really upset the landowners who thought they owned all the way into the lakes.

 

[Overland One]

I'm in Michigan fairly close to Lake Michigan. People pay millions to own a spot on one of the great lakes. It's been ruled anyone can walk the beach up to where the high waterline is. This really upset the landowners who thought they owned all the way into the lakes.

My understanding is that is the way it is on the beaches on our coasts. When I was a kid in NJ going to the shore to my Grandparents house, we all had to have beach tags because if a lifeguard caught you on the beach without one, you got fined. (My Grandparents had to buy them each year for the season and, they were very expensive) Well, years later, the courts upheld that all beaches are public property up to the high water mark. (high water mark for the last 18, 20, years or something like that which varies state to state) So that meant you could legally walk on the beach from Maine to Florida without any permits, badges, licenses or be obstructed by large beachfront hotel fences. (Those hotels would run fences right down into the water to keep people that were not paying guests off "their" beach. Those fences had to all go away after the ruling.) I do not recall exactly when this situation was corrected by the courts but it was sometime after I left NJ in 1976, or possibly earlier and I just didn't hear about it then.

 

[Cajunwolf]

We have the illusion of freedom, and that's all.

 

[jasper]

It's a mindset. I see little difference between those that view public land for raising livestock or other means for profit or a way of rural living versus those that think that same public land is for moving about full-time living/camping/squatting.

Both mindsets defy the idea of public land sharing and that the land does not belong to them and neither have the right to claim it as theirs. "My family has been using this land for over a hundred years."

Even in the southeastern US, wildlife management and other areas used for decades as "hunt camps" are now used by full-time squatters moving from place to place, and seen as not belonging there by the hunters that don't wish to share what they thought they had.

I'm rural, in a county with no big box stores and virtually no industry. Purple paint is everywhere as no trespassing signs. Farm, grazing, solar farms, and hunting leases are very competitive. Chicken litter/poop from poultry farms is black gold.

My somewhat impoverished county now has ordinances for no full-time living in RVs, even park models. Strict limitations on tiny homes. No replacing of mobile homes on your own property. The county commissioners and powers that be are not ignorant. The situation glares from all forms of media sources. Home owners pay property taxes and generally make the area more attractive.

It's always about the money. Greed is greed, and I'm also guilty. After some youthful fifties and sixties idealism, accepting human greed made life somewhat easier. That, and the fact change is inevitable.

 

[DLTooley]

Exactly. It's federal public land, but even the local federal authorities seem to do nothing. A lack of funding is usually cited.

It seems to me that budgets are focused on jobs, with very little funds to actually do anything with the job. Likely you can easily get your job axed if you try to change the situation.

There does seem to be plenty of money for Law Enforcement though, with non-productive priorities.

 

[bullfrog !]

As the population increases and more people become unable to afford housing the public lands will be more populated as well as all public places. People need shelter. Good luck trying to keep them out of public places when there are no alternatives. Pay to build more jails or pay less to build affordable housing and help solve the problem, seems like a simple choice to me.

 

[rruff]

There does seem to be plenty of money for Law Enforcement though, with non-productive priorities.

I do recall reading on here awhile back that there was a big increase in funding for federal lands recently. Maybe they'll spend it all on kicking vehicle dwellers out of the forest, and give the people commandeering public land a pass.

 

[bebewanna]

I owned a large parcel of land, 2 sides were Washington State Department of Natural Resources land... The other 2 sides of the DNR land were also privately owned.
The road easements for private land ended at my property line. And the other side there were no easements.

So 80 acres of DNR land not accessible by anyone other than the adjacent land owners or a DNR official.

I had hunters who are disrespectful to begin with tell me numerous times my locked gate was illegal because citizens have a right to access public lands.... Well my gun and 6 pit bulls say otherwise lol. Then there are the really stupid ones that park in front of the gate and just walk on in lol. I love those people. When a crew of nasty dogs meet them they are shocked.

Sorry but no you do not have access unless there is a road easement written into the adjacent land to Govt Land. Or you get permission, period.

If you want to own land next to Govt Land buy some... Or be gone.

Honestly I don't think city folks really get it, that people in the middle of nowhere are not interested in what they think or what they have to say.

I was sitting in my land rover all night long because I was after a cougar I had enough of, so I parked below the spring on my property, the only water source for quite a distance.
I hear this beep beep beep... I turn around and there is a hunting dog with a collar beeping.. Then this guy comes running down the little hillside and shoots into these bushes. I jump out of the car and point my 9mn Beretta at him... I screamed, You shot your gun 25 feet from my vehicle on my land... In a hick accent he says "I didn't know this was your ground" had he lifted that shotgun at me I would have killed him.

Like I said if you want land in the country buy some