Hydrocaps

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yourdogguy

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I have a 2003 Chevy Express 3500 with an&nbsp;<span style="font-family: Arial, 'Arial Unicode MS', Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 24px;">Aerocell SRW body.</span></span><br><br><span style="font-family: Arial, 'Arial Unicode MS', Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 24px;">I'm getting ready to start the conversion to a fully self contained unit. I'll probably have some additional questions but my first concern is battery related. What I'd like to do is remove the&nbsp;passenger&nbsp;seat and install 4 T 105 golf cart batteries. I&nbsp;understand&nbsp;the issues related to charging these as far as&nbsp;</span></span>hydrogen<span style="line-height: 20px;">&nbsp;gas</span><span style="font-family: Arial, 'Arial Unicode MS', Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 24px;">&nbsp;being produced when charging but was hoping someone could chime in and let me know if hydrocaps would mitigate the danger involved in installing the battery in the interior of the van.<br>Would installing a battery box and then somehow venting the batteries to the outside work?<br><br>Thanks in advance<br><br>&nbsp;</span></span>
 
have you considered AGM batteries?&nbsp; four t105 6v batteries will give you around 400 to 450 AH when wired for 12v. youll have the expense of the batteries plus the hydrocaps for them. you will still need to maintain them with distilled water occasionally as the hydrocaps dont eliminate the need to do so completely from what i hear. and i would still vent them so a battery box would also be in order. plus the cost of the interconnect cables for four batteries.<br><br>two 4d size AGM batteries will give you 400 AH at 12v, can be placed anywhere without venting, no maintenance, no outgassing to be concerned with, discharge less when not in use, can handle freezing temps better, less cabling as you are only wiring two, and depending on the brand, can be discharged less than 50% DOD without shrotening the lifespan considerably.<br><br>the space consumed by two 4d's should be very similar to four t105's.<br><br>i think the hydrocaps are a no brainer for wet cell batteries an would go that route if i were building solar for a cabin or something. in an RV or vehicle, IMHO AGM are the way to go.<br><br>if you stick with wet cell, i would absolutely do the hydrocaps as well as a vented battery box. no question.<br><br>either way, get a smart charger. one that can also equalize. equalizing temporarily overcharges the cells in order to desulfate them.
 
I think it should be said that AGM's do not offgass unless overcharged. <br><br>&nbsp;Technically, they should still be vented to the exterior of the vehicle, even if they are unlikely to be overcharged.<br><br>Thermal runaway of AGM's is possible too, while rare .<br><br>I hear hydrocaps/ watermiser caps wear out as the catalyst gets used up.
 
wrc...while its possible that AGM's outgas its only if they were seriously overcharged as you said. even then, they outgas very little ppm and the atmosphere absorbs it.&nbsp; they are totally sealed and cannot even spill acid. they have a pressure valve and it takes quite a bit of abuse to set it off. possible for sure, but unlikely.<br><br>it is for this reason that they are used in aviation, military, remote comms and UPS units (uninterrupted power supplies).<br><br>where the venting comes into place is that some people put them in an enclosed box (like if they were replacing standard batteries), or an enclosed area. if you enclose them, they should be vented. because in the very unlikely event that they outgas, you dont want to keep the gas in there, its needs to dissipate.<br><br>i wouldnt hesitate to install them in a van or small vehicle.<br><br><br>i didnt know that the hydrocaps can wear out like that. that makes the hydrocaps a consumable. another added cost to regular batteries. when i build my homestead cabin and i design my battery bank, if i decide to stick with regular wet cells, i would probably forgo the hydrocaps but use a watering device to make it easier to maintain. i would probably use the L16 size, they seem to be at the price sweetpoint. crown brand is what i have my eye on.
 
You have to have the charging capacity for your AGM bank as they need to be fully charged to have a reasonable life span. They are very expensive. If you don't over charge liquid batteries you will not have to top water very often or worry about gassing. They must be vented.
 
<div class="auto-style6"><a rel="nofollow" name="AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries" target="_blank"></a> Cut &amp; Paste from Arizona Wind &amp; Sun<br><br><span class="auto-style5"><strong>AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) Batteries</strong></span></div><p>A newer type of sealed battery uses "Absorbed Glass Mats", or AGM between the plates. This is a very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat. These type of batteries have all the advantages of gelled, but can take much more abuse. We sell the Concorde (and Lifeline, made by Concorde) AGM batteries. These are also called "starved electrolyte", as the mat is about 95% saturated rather than fully soaked.<span lang="en-us"> That also means that they will not leak acid even if broken.</span></p><h4>AGM batteries have several advantages over both gelled and flooded, at about the same cost as gelled:</h4><p>Since all the electrolyte (acid) is contained in the glass mats, they cannot spill, even if broken. This also means that since they are non-hazardous, the shipping costs are lower. In addition, since there is no liquid to freeze and expand, they are practically immune from freezing damage.</p><p>Nearly all AGM batteries are "<strong>recombinant</strong>" - what that means is that the Oxygen and Hydrogen recombine INSIDE the battery. These use gas phase transfer of oxygen to the negative plates to recombine them back into water while charging and prevent the loss of water through electrolysis. The recombining is typically 99+% efficient, so almost no water is lost.</p><p>The charging voltages are the same as for any standard battery - no need for any special adjustments or problems with incompatible chargers or charge controls. And, since the internal resistance is extremely low, there is almost no heating of the battery even under heavy charge and discharge currents. The Concorde (and most AGM) batteries have no charge or discharge current limits.</p><p>AGM's have a very low self-discharge - from 1% to 3% per month is usual. This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries. The Concorde batteries can be almost fully recharged (95% or better) even after 30 days of being totally discharged.</p><p>AGM's do not have any liquid to spill, and even under severe overcharge conditions hydrogen emission is far below the 4% max specified for aircraft and enclosed spaces. The plates in AGM's are tightly packed and rigidly mounted, and will withstand shock and vibration better than any standard battery.</p><p>Even with all the advantages listed above, there is still a place for the standard flooded deep cycle battery. AGM's will cost about 1.5 to 2 times as much as flooded batteries of the same capacity. In many installations, where the batteries are set in an area where you don't have to worry about fumes or leakage, a standard or industrial deep cycle is a better economic choice. AGM batteries main advantages are no maintenance, completely sealed against fumes, Hydrogen, or leakage, non-spilling even if they are broken, and can survive most freezes. Not everyone needs these features.<br><br>_____________________________________<br><br>And prices are coming down somewhat. Comparing two brands and typed of batteries:<br><br>UPG brand 4d AGM battery 12v/200 AH at $343 is $1.72 per AH.<br>Crown brand standard wet deep cycle 12v/215 AH at $311 is $1.45 per AH.<br><br>So the cost difference of .28 per AH is not something that will break the bank.<br><br>There are better brands of AGM like Concorde, Deka etc that will increase the cost but they are not necessary. Crown is an excellent brand for wet cells. Theyve been doing it forever.</p>
 
Thanks for all your comments......... I've been comparing the AGM batteries to the 6 volt Golf cart batteries and found that Sam's club has (2) 6v 230AH batteries for&nbsp;<br>$220.00 So at that price they are less then $1.00 per AH. I agree that the AGM type are a better choice for the above mentioned reasons but the difference in price makes me lean towards the Sam clubs 6V GC.<br>So I'm back to the issue of how and where to mount a battery box to hold 4 6v batteries.
 
well if you removed the passenger seat you may still have access to the bolts/nuts in the floor that held them down. perhaps some angle iron, either the solid or slotted type, from home depot or lowes could be used to fasten a battery "pan" or "tray" unto which you place the batteries. you can get single or double gc battery boxes that have vent hole fittings as well. for four 6v, get two double battery boxes and fasten them down to this tray and run a vent line outside the van. perhaps through the passenger footwell or kickpanel.&nbsp; the doghouse might seem like a good spot but i would avoid that since the outgassed hydrogen is flamable.<br><br>four of those batteries should need a space just over 2' long and just over 14" wide. they are slightly taller than 1' high.&nbsp; i should think they would fit well in the passenger seat area runnig front to back.<br><br>thats a pretty good price for those batteries. are they definitely deep cycles?
 
looks good. 460 AH is nice. especially if you are good at conserving.<br><br>i was think about the battery boxes. if you forgo the commercially made ones (easiest way to enclose them) and made your own, you could turn the spot into storage or a table or seating too.<br><br>so perhaps you build a plywood box for them, vented of course, and make a hinged top. you could carpet the box (ill post a link for an example) and upholster and foam the top to make a seat. or you could fill out the rest of the passenger area above and around the box with some creative storage. so long as you dont occlude the view of the window.<br><br>just an idea.
 
here is a link to a blog by a woman fulltiming in a casita.<br><br>the link will bring you to the first page that mentions the battery box and has photos of its construction...follow the lonks on the page to the second page where she shows it being installed in her tow vehicle (a 2005 express)....<br><br><a rel="nofollow" href="http://rvsueandcrew.net/a-custom-battery-box-for-brand-new-batteries/" target="_blank">http://rvsueandcrew.net/a-custom-battery-box-for-brand-new-batteries/</a><br><br><br>i found the link on this website. her blog is a really fun read and i recommend it.<br><br>there is a pull down menu on the right side of her page where you can go all the way back to 2011 when she started so you can read the blog from then to current in order.&nbsp; im up to December 2011. there are a few broken "next page" links with really no way to view the missing pages. what you do when you encounter it is use the drop down menu to skip to the next month and then use the previous page links to go backwards to the missing page. the missing page wont be there still but you will at least be able to pick up just after it. the read is worth the effort.<br><br>
 
Hydro caps use a catalist to recombine the battery gas back to water. They should not wear out, I guess they could get dirty and stop working. If the batteries are not over charged to the point of boiling liquid, the caps should be fine?<br><br>AGM battery banks have special charging criteria, not as forgiving as wet cell batteries. Ask folks that have used them. If you can afford them they can be fine.<br><br>All lead acid batteries have a very low freezing temperature if they are not discharged dead.
 
Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions...<br><br>cygvan I took a look at your build 'Red Zeppelin' nice work.<br><br>I've got some more questions about charging batteries and will move over to the&nbsp;<br><a class="forum_title" style="color: #000000; text-decoration: none;" href="/?forum=183333" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Electrical: Batteries, Generators, Solar</a>&nbsp;section.<br><br>
 
thanks man. still have a way to go to finish. work on it has slowed a bit as i enjoy the summer and make future plans. but things should pick up in september when i usually get my second wind so to speak.<br><br>ill check out your post in batteries.
 
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