"Humble Beginnings"

[HumbleBeginnings]

Short and sweet: my girlfriend and I bought a van a couple months ago (2004 E350 Ext). We threw together a floor and a bed in four days so we could take her out for Memorial Day, but the build has been a bit stalled since. We've been doing a lot of talking and planning, and the time has finally come to get back to work. 

I'll be using this thread to document the progress, and hopefully engage in some constructive discussion about our choices along the way! In the next two months this should be a fully converted van, with hopes and dreams that we will take to the plunge to live in it full time in the next year or two.

Okay, enough intro! Here is the current state of our van, all loaded up for a 2,100 mile trip to see the eclipse in Oregon last weekend:
  

You can see that we've had a bit of a start, but our van is still very humble and raw. I was working on running some electrical (backup cam and a switch for the reverse siren) before our trip to the eclipse, but we ran out of time and had to get on the road (which explains the wires hanging down from the ceiling). 

Back in May we had to build the bed fast, before taking the time to insulate the walls. Now it's time to go back and do it all correctly. First, I need to run my wiring for lights and some other features, then insulate, then wood paneling. After that, we're going to rebuild the bed. Originally we thought we wanted the pull-out bed style, but after a few weekend trips we've decided we want to build a permanent bed platform to maximize the storage space available to us. I'm 6'1", so I've shied away from a sideways bed, but after lounging sideways across the bed last weekend we've decided it can be manageable and we're going to give it a shot. With the sideways bed and the extended body, we should have LOTS of room in the kitchen area. 

This is from before Memorial Day:


We haven't really designed the kitchen cabinets yet, but we are definitely planning to install a sink with fresh and gray water tanks and a pump. We will also probably add an LPG stove. I've been doing a lot of thinking about propane inside the van, and will probably ultimately go with some type of sealed box vented to the outside and add a propane detector alarm so I can sleep at night. My hope is to install a stove on a drawer that slides out the side doors, but I'm not sure how well that will fit behind my passenger without blocking the door or making her uncomfortable. More to come on that one.  

Anyway, I've got some spools of wire, LED lights, a 100 A-H battery, a battery isolator, and a MaxxFan all waiting for install, so hopefully we'll have some updates soon!

---

-Aaron

2004 Ford E350 SuperDuty Extended

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

And since I mentioned the MaxxFan... I'm always open to advice on location. I was going to put it in the back to leave room for (potential) solar in the front, but 1) the (potential) roof rack would be easier to access if it were in the back, and 2) even though many say they have no water problems with the MaxxFan, I do wonder about having it over my bed.

I'm leaning towards putting it in the center, with room behind for a rack in the future, and room in front for solar in the future. Because the prospect of full-time is so far into our future, it's hard to know what we will eventually want, so I'm just trying not to make any mistakes that will prevent us from doing what we want in the future. The good news is my roof is HUGE so I'm pretty sure I could have a rack, fan, and four 100 watt solar panels all with room to spare.

The ribs on top of the E350 are particularly annoying to me. There is not 14"x14" flat spot anywhere. So I've got that putty tape stuff and lap sealant and maybe I'll sprinkle some holy water on it after the install and hope for the best!

 

[John61CT]

Nice floor! Details please. . .

 

[highdesertranger]

nothing wrong with Humble beginnings. your van looks great. keep us updated on the build. oh yeah go to the "Newcomers corner" and give us an intro and we will give you an official welcome. highdesertranger

 

[Ballenxj]

Welcome aboard!   I'm with John61CT on the nice floor comment, and wanting details about it.

 

[Randingo]

Nice Van!  Looking forward to watching your progression.  Welcome!!

 

[rvpopeye]

Welcome aboard Matey !

Ye'll be gettin' more answers than ya need to any question ye ask !!!

 

[OutdoorFT]

Im jealous. Ill be wastching. Looking good so far!

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

The floor was interesting...

We bought the van on a Thursday night, then the next day we found a campground and slept on the floor in a sleeping bag. That's actually when we came up with the name Humble Beginnings! I was getting analysis paralysis with all the decisions to make in the design process. So eventually we decided to call this "van 1.0" and just get a van and get to work, with the understanding that it will be a work in progress with revisions, and potentially even be replaced by something different in the future. That mindset allowed me to actually move forward and be okay with not making everything perfect.

Here's a pic of that first night:


Definitely very humble, but we had a blast!

Two days later, on a Sunday, we were in Costco and saw some laminate flooring on sale. We weren't really planning on installing a floor that day, but the moment hit us, we bought some flooring, and things started rolling. (I can't remember the name of the product, but I can get that once I visit our storage shelves in my mom's garage. Thanks Mom!)

The original plan was to remove the 3/4" plywood that was already in the van, then install wooden battens, foam block insulation, then a new layer of plywood (1/4"?) and put the floor on that. However, as I was in the process of removing the existing plywood and noticing how well it already fit to the internal shape of the van, I started questioning how much effort that process was going to be and how much improvement we were actually going to get out of all that work to replace the plywood with foam. In the end it didn't seem the juice was worth the squeeze so we just put the floating floor directly on top of the existing plywood (the van was previously in the service of Pima County, AZ).

The biggest lesson I learned in this flooring install was... photo composition! I have no idea how I could measure each board so carefully and end up with such uneven ends to our flooring, but at least I figured out how to take a picture without showing that part of it! I will be investing in some very wide trim pieces at some point. 

Anyway, the floor went in over two days (had to go back and buy more flooring, we ended up needing about 2-1/4 boxes). Then we built our bench/bed in two more days (also very uneven) and headed out to the Sequoia National forest for Memorial Day weekend. I've also learned that I better invest in some saw horses if I want to be able to stand up once this build is over!

---

-Aaron

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

Update on that laminate flooring... we bought it at Costco, the brand is Harmonics, and the pattern is Newport Oak.

 

[Almost There]

And since I mentioned the MaxxFan... I'm always open to advice on location. I was going to put it in the back to leave room for (potential) solar in the front, but 1) the (potential) roof rack would be easier to access if it were in the back, and 2) even though many say they have no water problems with the MaxxFan, I do wonder about having it over my bed.

I'm leaning towards putting it in the center, with room behind for a rack in the future, and room in front for solar in the future. Because the prospect of full-time is so far into our future, it's hard to know what we will eventually want, so I'm just trying not to make any mistakes that will prevent us from doing what we want in the future. The good news is my roof is HUGE so I'm pretty sure I could have a rack, fan, and four 100 watt solar panels all with room to spare.

The ribs on top of the E350 are particularly annoying to me. There is not 14"x14" flat spot anywhere. So I've got that putty tape stuff and lap sealant and maybe I'll sprinkle some holy water on it after the install and hope for the best!

The fan would be better placed NOT over the bed. After 40+ years around vans, I have seen way too many van owners who left their roof vents open, went somewhere and came back to a wet bed caused by a sudden unexpected (or unplanned for) downpour.

I really recommend putting a vent cover over the roof vent. This allows you to drive down the highway with the vent open and leave it open during all but the hardest of monsoon downpours. Monsoon type rains will bounce off your roof and you'll end up with a fine mist coming in!

The best way to install the vent on the uneven roof is to layer the butyl tape where needed to build it up. BTW, try to get the beige marine grade butyl tape as opposed to the gray stuff that RV dealers sell. It has twice the life expectancy. You shouldn't need any other sealant than the butyl tape. Be careful not to use silicone sealant if you do decide on something extra.

Some people put their roof vent underneath the roof rack and have it covered with solar panels instead of putting a vent cover on it. Others work around the vent opening with multiple smaller panels.

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

We spent a lot of time working in the van this weekend. Somehow, my girlfriend's parents still seem entertained by this whole thing.

First, I ran the wiring for the LEDs; since the paneling was going to cover that up. I had to make an educated guess where our cabinets will end up and hope it works out later! I have a hard time seeing the whole finished product. I want to focus on the current item, then re-evaluate and plan before moving onto the next step. So, I feel like I have to see our bed platform finished before I decide exactly how tall or wide the cabinets will be. 

     

You have no idea how excited I was to see the little LED come on! (Even if it did take me three attempts and two blown fuses to get the dimmer switch wired properly.) The battery and fuse block are laying on the floor for now. They will eventually be installed inside the cabinets that don't exist yet.

When I first saw build posts where people used tape for their wiring, I thought I was going to do mine cleaner, maybe even run conduit throughout the van so I can run new wiring later. Yeah... no. That wasn't gonna happen. I taped it up to hold it long enough to cover with insulation and walls, and that will be just fine. I would have spent the whole weekend just trying to run conduit if I had gone down that route. 

Anyway... I realized at this point that I need to run my fan wiring. Also, I had been trying to decide if I would rather panel the entire roof, then cut through it all for my fan, or install my fan and build the paneling around it. In the end I decided to put in the fan first and panel around it. (And I'm still not sure which way is best.)

After months of contemplation, I finally pulled the trigger and cut a hole in the roof! No turning back now!



As much as I wanted to believe "I'll just make sure I do a great install so it won't leak" I decided to follow the words of the wise and NOT put the fan over the bed.

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

...
The best way to install the vent on the uneven roof is to layer the butyl tape where needed to build it up. BTW, try to get the beige marine grade butyl tape as opposed to the gray stuff that RV dealers sell. It has twice the life expectancy. You shouldn't need any other sealant than the butyl tape. Be careful not to use silicone sealant if you do decide on something extra.
...

I just noticed this part of your post (after installing my fan this weekend). I used the gray butyl tape because I didn't know about the beige. I had to stack it up to try to create a dam in the channels in the roof. As I was doing it I was feeling pretty skeptical about how well it would work. I had my first leak last night. I was parked on an incline and a puddle of water was against that stack of butyl tape for about 24 hours. Even then only one or two drips came through, but I would like to improve that seal. My thought was to use a bathtub caulk, which I believe is silicone. Why is silicone a bad idea? And is there something else you would recommend? I need to basically build a vertical wall of sealant to 

Thanks!

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

Moving on with the build...

Next was insulation and paneling. I went with the polyiso, with some crack filler sprayed into some of the beams for good measure (and three days later I still have some of it stuck to my skin). I bought the 3M glue that everybody talks about (77? 90? I can't remember which one it was). But, it seemed easier to treat it like the wiring: tape it up for now, then the planks will hold it in place, no glue required. We stuffed some pink attic insulation in the lower half of the walls where we couldn't fit the rigid foam insulation.

I've read about vapor barriers, and some people in favor of them and some against (prevent moisture in the walls or allow moisture to escape). I decided to just put up my walls and not think overthink it too much. Remember, I started this fan with a "give it a go and let it be a learning experience" mentality. So if I end up wishing I had done it differently that will be a lesson learned which will inform modifications and/or rebuilds in the future. 

On top of that was some 1/4" cedar planking. I tried to figure out a way to screw it straight to the sheet metal without installing wooden studs behind it. I just didn't want to sacrifice the additional room inside. It's very frustrating when the exact spot I need to install a screw already has a hole in the sheet metal! All in all, it's gone reasonably well with as much as we've done. 

It's certainly not perfect but it looks and smells pretty nice! Adding paneling finally makes this feel like it's really happening!!!

   

The thin planking is very forgiving for the first couple of rows, but I've learned that after following the curves of the van for several rows I can't close the gaps in the tongue and groove anymore. Basically, picture trying to make a wooden barrel with staves that are perfectly straight. As they bow out around the widest part of the barrel there would be gaps between them. That's what I'm fighting now and haven't quite figured out yet. I may just need to run some shorter planks to make it work. And there will definitely be some type of wood filler, wooden slivers, or something in my future.

 

[John61CT]

Thanks for flooring details.

Maxx has a model with built-in vent cover, looks and works much better, but of course not cheap. +1 not ever over the bed!

Best butyl tape ​ http://shop.marinehowto.com/products/bed-it-tape

 

[BobBski]

Welcome and look forward to following your progress

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

It's hard to see in the nighttime picture, but that is indeed a MaxxFan Deluxe! It's been very nice while working on van in the heat of Labor Day weekend!

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

We didn't finish paneling the walls and ceiling by Labor Day like I was hoping. But we did take Sunday night off for a family party and we did get quite a bit done. We went back to work Tuesday and Wednesday after work for few hours, and we'll be back at it again tonight.

In order to be able to take the van out this Saturday, I've altered the priorities a little bit. We can sleep under a half-finished ceiling, but we can't sleep on a bed that doesn't exist! With that in mind, Tuesday's task was to panel the walls down to the floor, and last night I started what we affectionately call "Bed 2.0" (our first bed was a little... rough).

Here's a shot of me questioning where I went wrong in life that I'm now sitting here trying to figure out how to attach cedar paneling to the ceiling of a cargo van:

(If you look closely in the pic above, you'll see my girlfriend's father preparing his fishing reel while questioning where he went wrong in life that his daughter's boyfriend has been working on a van in his driveway for days on end.) 

A couple things to note about our build:
- we have no idea what we're doing!
- insulation is something we're doing, but not obsessing about. We live in southern California and, even though we will be doing some traveling, temps below zero are just not on our roadmap
- I'm 6'1" so I wanted to give up as little interior space as possible. For that reason, we are attaching the paneling directly to the sheet metal ribs. Doing it this way sucks! The problem is I can't always put my screws in the ideal location if there is no rib there or if one of the 1000's of holes in the ribs happens to be right where my screw needs to be. Also, the very uneven walls behind the paneling leave it a little less supported than I would like. Basically, don't lean on my walls because they move and the paneling is only 1/4" thick! But I know this is what we chose in order to save space. We could have built-out wooden studs which would have created strong walls but we chose not to so we can keep the interior as big as possible. It's a trade-off we made. 

Here's a shot from Tuesday night trying to finish up the paneling:

(I guess there are worse places to be working on a van conversion.)

And here you can see our van in Oregon a couple weeks ago for the eclipse, vs where we're at now with the van build: 


It was on that recent trip that we decided to build a fixed bed (vs a bench that pulls out into a bed, which was Bed 1.0) because we like having all that space for storage. Also, we're taking a gamble on sleeping sideways in the van even though I'm taller than the van is wide! In Oregon one afternoon I found myself laying across the bed sideways and I was comfortable, so I decided to give it a try. It's just so tempting to maximize our space for kitchen cabinets as much as possible. If this is all a huge mistake, be on the lookout for a Bed 3.0 post in the future!

And last but not least, here's a pic of the entire van crew as we set of for the 2,100 mile 5-day trip to see the totality near Prairie City, OR:

---

Aaron

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

Here's my rough idea for the bed platform to accommodate a full mattress sideways (it will be a tight squeeze, possibly with some trimming needed). I wrote in some approximate dimensions because I created this when I was not near the van; actual measurements will follow. The plan is to have two drawers that slide out the back, and the front space will be accessible via cupboard doors, or something similar. This design is a work in progress.



I started it last night using 1x3's for the main supports, basically the dark-shaded members on the bottom levels. I wanted strong boards to support the drawer rails as much as possible and I wanted to maximize the size of the drawers as well. I did sacrifice a little bit of space by the way I designed the center area (a 1x3 for each drawer sandwiched around a vertical 1x3) but I felt that would be much stronger than sharing 1 board for both drawers and also facilitate an easier install.

For the first time I'm using a pocket hole jig. I really like it! (I have to give credit to GnomadHome for introducing me to this.) It gives me more flexibility in how I want to attach my boards to each other, and is apparently a much stronger way to screw into wood (something to do with grain direction). All I know is my half-built bed feels really strong so far!

---

Aaron

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

I forgot to include a pic of the bed in progress:



More work to do tonight!