how strictly are self cantanment rules for LTVA enforced?

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I am creating my own rv build from a 4x4 truck, and I would like to be able to stay at LTVAs. They have a rule that you need to have "self containment" of blackwater wastes in order to be allowed to stay at an ltva. my normal method is a composting toilet, but they will not accept that. So my question is how strictly do they check for "self containment"? Has anyone had experiences with how strictly they check? 

Their statute from their website reads "Self-contained camping units must have a permanent, fixed wastewater holding tank of 10 gallon minimum capacity."

Is it enough to permanently attach such a tank under your vehicle or are they going to look inside and check out your toilet and make sure it is properly plumbed into it? I am wondering what I must do to be allowed to stay at an LTVA, and am concerned about the effort space consumption and money I would be required to expend on a system I would never use.

Has anyone had experience with this?

Thank you so much!
Stewart

 

[John61CT]

In theory they could ask to inspect functionality, but would have to be a real hardass you rubbed up the wrong way.

Make it look right from a quick look over you'll be right.

But do dispose of your barely "composted" output mix back out in civilization!

 

[highdesertranger]

they are not going to check the functionality. however the rangers will come by, I would have the valves and such in place because they are highly visible on most RV's.

BTW you don't need the black tank at all the LTVA's some of them allow no black tank but you must camp within a certain distance of the outhouses, I believe it's 500 feet.

highdesertranger

 

[abnorm]

"" my normal method is a composting toilet, but they will not accept that.""

How do you know that ?...…..my experience in AZ LTVA's is that the Rangers have some individual discretion..... "generally" allowing Composting Toilets without inspecting your rig...…


doug

 

[highdesertranger]

Doug it's in the rules that you must have a 10 gallon black tank. some one here asked a ranger about a compositing toilet and were told no that it did not qualify, but the ranger let them slide. so you are correct that there is a lot of discretion on the rangers part. however I always hate to rely on the rangers discretion. highdesertranger

 

[Almost There]

Some of the LTVAs have no pit/vault toilets at all. At those, you must have our own self contained, minimum 10 gallon black water waste tank to be allowed to stay. The only ones that you're allowed to stay at without a tank are the ones that have pit/vault toilets and then be camped within 500 ft of it.

The only one with no toilet facilities that I've been through, Holtville CA, there was strict enforcement through on site campground hosts and regular ranger presence. A 4x4 that is DIY conversion would be sure to attract their attention for an inspection since every other vehicle parked at the Holtville LTVA was RVIA stickered, mostly larger units. You would stick out like a sore thumb there...

I had previously asked a ranger in Quartzsite about the enforcement of the tank rule because I have a separating toilet. His response was that he'd be willing to let the van slide for the distance rule but it would be an individual vehicle decision and also up to each ranger. i didn't ask at the LTVAs where there were no toilet facilities at all.

That said, I'm of the opinion that deliberately proposing a violation of the rules is not in the best interests of the nomadic community. I adhere to the regulations whether anyone is looking or not. It's in all of our best interests to do so.

I have to admit I have trouble figuring out why anyone would want to pay to stay at a place that looks exactly like the land a mile away that is free.  But then staying in one place for more than a couple of weeks, particularly out in the barren desert doesn't interest me at all!

 

[bullfrog]

There lots of rules and regulations and being aware of them and abiding by them is always easiest and best. A lot of rules don't get enforced for several reasons and not all are good reasons. It might be there is no one to enforce them, no one there that could enforce them cares to as it is too difficult or may cause problems in itself, or it may be they have been told not to enforce them but to encourage people to comply with the sprit of the law which may even give better results. A lot of whether it gets enforced depends on how you interact with the person that is there and the people around you, so to answer your question it will depend on you and the person you deal with. I doubt any formal inspection station with a paid inspector will be encountered and I doubt anyone would force you to let them look inside with a warrent. You may be asked and they might look at the outside of your rig for a dump valve or tank. On many 4 season RVs the tank is enclosed so it does not freeze so it is not visible from the outside. As long as you are honest and show you are capable of dealing with the issue of waste and therefore abiding with the sprit of the law and willing to do what ever they the enforcement person feels is necessary (even if that means camping somewhere else and they will usually help you find somewhere) you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[Cammalu]

Almost there. The reason I like the LTVAs is the availability of water, bathrooms, and dumpsters.

I would be spending it running to town and back to dump and get water. At the LTVA I don’t have to pack up and move very often.

 

[Almost There]

The tanks need dumping (or filling) at the same rate whether you're on LTVA or not.

IMO, it doesn't matter whether you drive it 1/2 mile or 5 miles, it's the time to pack up the vehicle and/or hitch it up that matters most.

And I need a trip to town for supplies anyways.

 

[Cammalu]

I actually get water in water cans so don’t have to take the RV at all. In town it’s about ten bucks or so to dump and I don’t know what it costs for water. I only have to move when I dump the black tank and I’m traveling about 10 mph so nothing falls so I’m not packing up. I probably dump the black every couple weeks or so. So not having to go to town and pay for a dump and water saves me gas as well.

Since I have an unlimited amount of water I can also shower everyday if I want and don’t worry about doing the dishes with water.

Although I have a bathroom many who camp with us do not. We are going to build a gravity fed shower this year for YARC Camp and can easily keep the drum filled from the LTVAs free water supply.

Works for us

 

[John61CT]

If the only reason to pack everything up is dumping the black tank, makes a separating toilet all that more compelling, stay a month or more at a time where allowed.

 

[abnorm]

At Q...…...LTVA's...…..When the Ranger first came around this year I politely asked...…...


"Is the C-Head Composting Toilet OK this year LIKE LAST YEAR ?" 

(No inspection)…….."YES !"

 

[John61CT]

Sweet!

 

[Cammalu]

Good for you Doug [emoji16]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Seminole Wind]

I doubt anyone would force you to let them look inside with a warrent.

they have the right to inspect for compliance, no warrant needed. if you dont want to let them inspect, they are not going to waste their time, they simply dont have to let you camp there.

having or needing a warrant is irrelevant.

 

[[email protected]]

Hi, I just want to thank everyone for their replies. The information was very helpful. It helps me get a general picture of what the situation is at the ltva's which is important to know before setting up my rig. Of course I will dispose of my waste in a safe and sanitary manner. I just wanted to know what the technical rules are, and you all have helped me with that. Thanks for being so helpful!