How do I ground the neg wire to the frame?

yamsack · Feb 1, 2012

Hi all, According to 4x4tour, I need to ground the negative wire from my controller's "battery" terminal by attaching it to the frame of my van.  My question is where inside the van would it be appropriate to ground the wire?  Do I need to run it somehow through to the exterior underside of the van and attach it to an axle or something?  Hopefully, something inside the van would be much easier and convenient.  Thanks everyone.

Guest · Feb 1, 2012

How about one of the seat or seatbelt bolts...? Bri

gadgetMe · Feb 2, 2012

When doing solar wiring ,  I keep the positive and negative wiring separate from the chassis wiring of the truck. Wiring a charge controller circuit to the chassis can potentially cause a problem if there is a malfunction with the chassis wiring, The charge controller of the solar unit will have a positive & negative for the solar panel, and a pos / neg for the battery that you are using as a house battery. (battery being charged from the solar panel) Just hook up the  Pos / Neg of each of the components to the controller using the appropriate size wire for the wattage you have coming from the solar panel  Putz

yamsack · Feb 2, 2012

@ Pondputz, Are you recommending that I DO NOT ground any of my solar components to the body/frame of the vehicle and, therefore, simply connecting the wires to the appropriate pos/neg terminals of my components? @ 4x4tour, 1.   "...Run a short 4-gauge ground wire from the bolt to your battery negative, and you are golden." Since I have 2 batteries, should there be 2 ground wires coming from both batteries to the bolt, or is only one wire coming from one battery sufficient? Based on your suggestions so far, I've got: __  one 12 gauge ground wire coming from the charge controller's neg "battery" terminal running to the frame and __  one 4 gauge ground wire coming from the battery's neg terminal running to the frame. 2.  "...The morningstar positive wire (12 gauge) should have the inline fuse no further than 6" away from the battery terminal (leave fuse out until final connection). " Can I just wire the fuse directly onto the battery's pos terminal without any distance at all?  Secondly, why is a certain distance critical regarding placement of the fuse?  Thanks.

akrvbob · Feb 2, 2012

That is what PondPutz is saying. You only need ONE ground wire going to the frame, it will go from the negative post of your house battery, to a hole in your frame. There will NOT be any other cables going to the frame from anywhere. Once the battery is grounded to the frame, everything connected to it is grounded to the frame. You will only need one cable going from the battery to the frame no mater how many batteries you have. If you have more than one battery, they will be connected either in Series (6 volt batteries) or parrallel (12 volt batteries). When wired together they stop being multiple batteries and become ONE BIG battery. One battery only needs one ground. Bob

gadgetMe · Feb 2, 2012

Are you recommending that I DO NOT ground any of my solar components to the body/frame of the vehicle and, therefore, simply connecting the wires to the appropriate pos/neg terminals of my components?

Correct

Can I just wire the fuse directly onto the battery's pos terminal without any distance at all?  Yes .. .Secondly, why is a certain distance critical regarding placement of the fuse?

It really is not critical unless the wire gauge is too small causing undue resistance from a (too small) wire. The reason to keep the solar electrical system separate from the chassis or the frame (of the truck) is to prevent any chance of power surges, feedback etc., from the truck charging system entering the much more sensitive charge controller for the solar. A shorted diode in an alternator can cause a constant electrical draw from the battery, a poor chassis ground to the body from the motor can cause problems also. I prefer to keep each system separate. If a problem arises it is much easier to diagnose each one separately Now if you are going to charge the solar house battery with the charging system of the truck, while moving, that is a separate set of issues From what I can gather,  4x4 is using a insulated stud to combine all of the positive connections separate from the battery lug, because having a bunch of wire connections on the battery is troublesome, because of corrosion at that point, it is much easier to clean one connection at that point than 4 or 5 of them.

yamsack · Feb 11, 2012

@ Pondputz, May I ask why some folks would choose to ground their components to the frame/chassis at all?  I thought grounding the components was supposed to help prevent damage to the components.

DaveF · Feb 20, 2012

I too am confused by the different suggestions. I was/am under the impression that there are two main types of grounding, one that connects to the literal ground/earth in order to prevent humans from being in danger of becoming the least path of resistance (e.g. shocked) and one that is used to power electric components with the current (e.g. using an automotive chassis in place of wiring). Which form of grounding is being suggested here?  It sounds like chassis grounding is being advised for prevention of being shocked.  Is this correct?

gadgetMe · Feb 21, 2012

yamsack wrote: May I ask why some folks would choose to ground their components to the frame/chassis at all?  I thought grounding the components was supposed to help prevent damage to the components.

The confusion is in the terminology of "Grounding". A 12 volt system has a positive (usually Red wiring) and negative (usually black wiring) In the terminology of 12 volt  ... negative is called ground but it really is not grounded or hooked to the earth it is really just the negative connection to the battery. In modern day automotive systems. In  12 volt systems  the only component that will protect electrical parts are fuses or circuit breakers. 12 volts alone will not give you a shock,  unless the voltage is stepped up by transformers to much higher voltages.

DaveF Wrote:I too am confused by the different suggestions. I was/am under the impression that there are two main types of grounding, one that connects to the literal ground/earth in order to prevent humans from being in danger of becoming the least path of resistance (e.g. shocked) and one that is used to power electric components with the current (e.g. using an automotive chassis in place of wiring). Which form of grounding is being suggested here?  It sounds like chassis grounding is being advised for prevention of being shocked.  Is this correct?

No. the chassis grounding is only the negative side of the 12 volt battery system. Ground in a 110 ac system does go to earth (or true  ground) In a 110 volt ac system there is a bit different terminology. Hot (or positive is black wiring) Neutral (or negative is white wiring) and ground  is the un-coated copper wire. Attaching the un-coated copper wire to earth will prevent electrical shock. Hope this helps Putz

DaveF · Feb 22, 2012

Well said Putz.  Thank you for clarifying the advice being given. -Dave

Cold Brian · Feb 26, 2013

Hi, all! I was just reading through some of these old topics about solar and electrical stuff and had a few questions. Please bear with me if they seem pretty basic. 1) If I am installing a solar system that is NOT connected to my vehicle's 12v system, is there any need or benefit to ground the battery to the frame? I set up one in my old rv like that and did not have a problem, but I ask because I got a little confused reading some of these topics. 2) Now if I AM connecting it to my alternator through an isolator, which I have never done before, I assume the positive wire of the battery goes to the alternator and the negative gets grounded to the frame? Is this right? I will probably have a shop do this since I am really leery of messing with the electrical system on these newer vehicles with computers, but I would like to know anyway. Thanks in advance.

Guest · Feb 26, 2013

You only have to put it to chassis ground if your 12volt assesories use the chassis metal for their ground. When I install solar pannels on rv's , the 2 wires comming from the pannel to the charge controller, them to the battery. In rv's you have to bond the ground or negative to the chassis, it is in the electrical code. And having it tied to the chassis ground, it will have no adverse affects if something happens to the charging system as mentioned above. The positive side is separate, all rv trailers are hooked to your charging system on the tow vehicle.in my van I did not use an isolator, I just used a solinoid with a switch, I can charge my house battery's when I want. And can use it as an emergency start battery if I need it,just by the flip of a switch. Hope this helps.

Cold Brian · Feb 26, 2013

Thanks, Big Red; I appreciate the info. I think I am all set then if I read your correctly. I have another question if you or anyone else want to answer it: Is there any danger of an alternator overcharging your battery if say you were on a long drive and didn't have much load on your deep cycle battery? Like maybe a cross country trip?

Guest · Feb 26, 2013

Thats why there is a voltage regulator on the alternator. This is why I have mine wired to a switch, I can switch it off if my house battery is full.

Cold Brian · Feb 26, 2013

Ahhh, thanks again, buddy.

ccbreder · Feb 27, 2013

As stated, the "ground" in a vehicle 12 volt dc system is only used as the return wire to the battery or alternator. You don't need to ground the house battery if there is another wire from each component back to the battery. So, the "ground" saves a lot of money not spent on copper wire. If you have any means to conect your 110 volt ac system to "shore" do not connect any part of the 110 volt ac circuit to the vehicle frame. If there was an equipment failure, the vehicle can become "hot" to earth, resulting in many bad things including death. Working as a vehicle mechanic, I have received small shocks from 12 volt. It depends on the resistance of your skin and a return path for the amps. More dangerous is the potential for burns during short circuit. Also explosions during battery maintenance.

Cold Brian · Feb 27, 2013

Thanks for the info, cc. You guys are great!

Guest · Feb 27, 2013

Actually if you have 110 vac in a vehicle. The ground has to be tied to the vehicle chassis. It is in the electrical code. If the ground is not hooked up, and the hot wire ended up touching the chassis it will not trip the breaker the shore plug is plugged into. And you are on the ground and touch the metal chassis you will get shocked. Having the ground tied to the chassis will trip the breaker if the hot wire grounds out.

ccbreder · Mar 8, 2013

I'm not talking about a nock-u-2-the ground shock. Key word = small.  but you have not had enough experience. I would never have my chassis connected to AC voltage. In the event of a failure of the shore connection I could become the ground connection when entering or exiting the vehicle.

Zil · Mar 26, 2013

CCBREDER is right 12 volts can shock you, it all depends on your skin resistance. Normally skin resistance is high enough to prevent a low voltage shock. Sometimes not.

How do I ground the neg wire to the frame?

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