How can I sleep in minivan in -20C ?

[dragonflyinthesky]

Should you have a co2 detector or something?<br><FONT color=#00ff00><b>Dragonfly</b></FONT><br>

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Seraphim, You are not stretching this thing out. We need to know exactly how to insulate properly. Otherwise all of the work, time and money spent will be wasted on the vehicle! Do you think that reflectix would be better than thick plastic sheet? To put in between the insulation and paneling? Or no?<br>

 

[Seraphim]

I'm not a relectix expert: I only know what I read on their site, so take this FWIW....<BR><BR>Reflectix would be easier to install, you don't have the fibers associated with a lot of insulations floating in the air, and it is not only the insulation but it also has a built-in vapor barrier, when the seams are taped. So it does both: insulates and keeps out moisture. From what I see, it is probably about twice as expensive as using a home style insulation - like Corning.<BR><BR>I&nbsp;saw 50 sq feet of r16 reflectix for $26. A roll of 50 sq ft R19 house insulation for $16. If you were going to cover a cargo van interior (15' long by 6' wide) walls and ceiling, that's about 300 sq feet (less when you cut out for windows, but just for comparison purposes).&nbsp; $136 in reflectix and $96 in Corning. Add $10 to the Corning price for plastic vapor barrier.&nbsp; At this price, the Corning has a better insulation value.&nbsp; The Corning insulation is 6" thick, the reflectix about 5/16". <BR><BR>The reflectix is good for reflecting <B>radiant</B>&nbsp;heat, but something in my gut doesn't trust something that thin to hold in warm air as efficiently. Insulation works because it holds warm air in the spaces between the fiber. &nbsp;From the diagrams I've seen, reflectix is used on the outside of the home's frame, in addition to the insulation inside. To use it as strictly a moisture barrier in a vehicle, though, would, imo, be a waste of money. To use it alone as insulation - I don't thin it would work well, no matter what R value they assign it.<br><BR>Foam board insulation would be OK, but it might break putting it against a curved surface.<BR><BR>What would I personally do? Probably about 3" thick Corning on the walls, thicker on the ceiling. 6" thick would be overkill, maybe, but your interior should stay warm once heated, and should get warm quickly. You can buy Corning with a foil backing&nbsp;(slightly more&nbsp;expensive) but it eliminates the need for a sheet plastic vapor barrier (so it would be easier to install - well worth it, in my book. Just tape the seams together).<br><BR>I'd probably forget about the refelctix completely, but I'm also old school. lol<BR><BR>Just my opinion.<BR><BR>

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Seraphim, So corning house insulation is even better than styrofoam sheets. From internet research styrofoam sheets have and R value of 3.2 to 4.5, it would take at least 4 sheets of styrofoam maybe 6 to equal Corning's 6" R19. But it seems to me that a person would have to build a wood studded frame on inside of a minivan or station wagon to even use the 3" to 4" thick Corning. Or is there an adhesive to use? <br>

 

[Seraphim]

<P>If you want a finshed interior, then probably a frame, yes. Without a frame, you have nothing to attach panels to.&nbsp; Blkjak can can do a better job with that than I can.&nbsp; There are spray adhesives you can use: check building supply stores.&nbsp; </P>

 

[Seraphim]

I know the original post was about more extreme cold weather, but keep in mind if you put 6" insulation on both sides of the van, you're losing about a foot of interior width, which affects living and storage space.<br><br>Which is more important to you?<br>

 

[Wild_E]

Hi there,<div>in my box truck camper, I have used Durofoam and&nbsp;Refletix. Now the difference in temps is quite considerable to the touch. Although they are rated about the same, just put your hand on them, the Durofoam is much warmer and only 1" thick. Both have reflective coatings.</div><div><br></div><div>I have used PL9000 to bond the Durofoam and Refletix to the walls and ceiling areas. To fill the gap between the ribs I have taped over with the Metal pipe/ducking tape. Those that were taped were dry underneath, as I am&nbsp;remodelling&nbsp;and removed a section to check in the last day or so. The areas that were in the back, where I was just going to use for tool storage and had not insulated there yet, were dripping water at night when the heater was on. So, I ripped&nbsp;everything&nbsp;out in the back and am&nbsp;remodelling.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>In the back I now have Durofoam 1" on the ceiling, and tonight will tape the edges and ribs. Yes the metal ribs are colder but with the metal tape they do not leak as well. In the future I might just cover everything again with a different material or with the Durofoam, not sure right now. My priority is the rebuild, making an inside partition and fake roof, so that I might still use the roll up door and make it wind proof at the same time.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>In the dead of winter or before I might put a false back on, with a door in the middle so that I can use the roll up door by opening the wind barrier wall on the outside. That is actually easy to do as it is just a square opening, so simple frame and heavy plastic. Put foam on the frame first then fit into the opening,&nbsp;voilà, storm door that is O about 7' wide.</div><div><br></div><div>My roof vent is open every night to allow moisture to escape and for carbon&nbsp;dioxide&nbsp;build up to escape as well. my windows on the sides are sealed in as they were too cold. Temp sealed in as I used&nbsp;Velcro&nbsp;and clear bubble wrap folded over and taped on the edges with wide clear tape, which is surprisingly good in keeping the heat in and the cold out.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The area of the roof, that I put the Refletix is curved, so I will now cut a piece of the Durofoam, to put in there, I will slice the back about halfway to enable it to be installed in the curved portion of the roof. Another option would be to put another layer of Refletix over it, but I like the idea of the Durofoam there. Inside the little cubby over the roof, I will put&nbsp;Refletix&nbsp;and then cover up the opening with a piece of&nbsp;curtain.&nbsp;</div>

 

[Seraphim]

Wilderness

What temperatures does your climate drop to at night - worst case scenario?

 

[Wild_E]

That is hard to say actually, in the GTA Greater Toronto Area, there is what is called Lake Effects, so the temps swing&nbsp;widely&nbsp;day or night from about +15 deg&nbsp;Celsius&nbsp;to aprox - 25&nbsp;deg&nbsp;Celsius and all of it HUMID, summer winter spring.. humid.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Up in the Haliburton area, the temps will remain more in the -15 to -25&nbsp;deg&nbsp;Celsius and much less Humid summer and winter.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Right now I have a permanent OFF Grid location that I pay a little bit of money and stay there full time. The location is on a hill at the back of an old farm, it is windy! Did I mention the wind?</div><div>So making it wind proof is the goal, for when the wind starts up, it whistles through until I get this finished this week.&nbsp;</div>

 

[blars]

Sounds like you need a wind generator.<br><br><br>

 

[High Plains Drifter]

The wind makes a big difference for sure. When I pheasant and quail hunt I can walk into a valley and get warmer pretty quickly being out of the wind. Are you able to access some kind of wireless internet there or do you have to drive into town?<br>

 

[Wild_E]

Hi there,<div>I am planning on building a couple of different Wind Generators to recharge my batteries. In a video there is a tool that takes the excess power and puts it into a heat box, that makes heat into the area, sounds great for the Vehicle or House dwellers that want cheap heating.</div><div><br></div><div>I am in an area right now, that stealth does not matter in the back of the farm, so I can put up the wind generator, much harder if I move around in town though.</div><div><br></div><div>I get excellent wireless internet there, right now the vehicle is stationary, needs a few mechanical parts that are both in the $160 range, then installation. Luckily I have my Astro Van, which mostly starts for my business, it lets me down a lot being an Astro Van, but it is what I have right now (last one ever....)</div>

 

[Seraphim]

Wind power sounds like a good idea where you are. Several sites on building 12v wind power plants using car alternators.&nbsp; Kits are also available: I think Harbor Freight had a relatively inexpensive unit.<br><br>Wind robs the insulating buffer of warm air.&nbsp; Make the outside of the unit wind tight. Even a cover for the unit might work.<br><br>

 

[Seraphim]

<A href="http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...ild_a_van_dwelling_insulating_pg2.html?cat=27" target=_blank>http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...ild_a_van_dwelling_insulating_pg2.html?cat=27</A><br><br>a small article on insulation and a couple of good comments <br>

 

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Well anybody know<br><br>did the guy survive the -20 temp ?

 

[livin.free.in.a.minivan]

Thanks for asking brother...<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;YES, I am alive, and thriving... second winter in Alberta, same minivan, insulated as previously explained. I very often sleep with no source of heat, just my body heat conserved with 2 down filled sleeping bags, a toque and the well insulated van. When I do use heat, it's a little black 1500W heater you can get at Walmart plugged into the exterior receptacles provided for block heaters at my workplace parking lot&nbsp;or wherever I can find one when travelling. The heater is always set at low ( 800W ) and only cycles on a few times a night unless it's REALLY cold ( like 2 nights in Jasper @ -31c). I did install the propane dickinson heater but would only use it if weather stranded me in the mountains or emergency and not while I'd sleep. This setup has served me well for 2 winters, has allowed me to explore the&nbsp;AMAZING Rocky Mountains&nbsp;of Alberta and BC in winter without the expense of lodging and allowed me to save my lodging allowance provided by my winter employer to help finance the warm months living as I please in Ontario with friends and family. This experiment as well as other aspects of my life are ongoing in the spirit of freedom, self expression, and the pursuit of higher consciousness. May all you nomads stay warm and stay FREE.

 

[Wild_E]

Hey.. Livin Free..<br>get in touch with me when you come back to Ontario .. OK<br><br>For Heat, even in the half of my Box Truck living space, for temps above 12+ cel I now lots of times use a Veggie Heat system.<br><br>Simply put, use veggie cooking oil in a container, add in 1-3 wicks then it heats up the space.<br>Now since it is low heat, I also cover it with a tin food can with vents punched in the sides top and bottom.<br>For best results, I close up the Truck and light the veggie setup about 8 pm or so, then put out all but one sometimes, it will go through the whole night and keep it warm enough that I do not wear a Touque or had, or Pjs. My Dog and I are quite comfortable.<br><br>There are pics on my blog that show.<br><br>For heat when it is down to -10 cel I use a small sportcat (older one) in an old Kerosene Heater cabinet for safety and to direct the heat. Since I put a thermal mass on top (roast pan with kittly litter in it) the heat is more evenly spread out. This works to -10 even with a wind of up to 25k before I feel the cold.<br><br>Below -10 to about -20 but no wind the Bigger Big Buddy heater is then connected and normally used on the low setting only, the Duro-Foam - Plasti-Fab does a great job in keeping the heat radiated inwards.&nbsp;

 

[livin.free.in.a.minivan]

Hey brother,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;'Necessity is the mother of invention'. I like the veggie system. Reminds me of old Inuit technology. They could live and thrive in naturally well insulated igloos heated with oil lamps. Thank you for the Durofoam suggestion, it's ideal and&nbsp;the radiant silver finish interior keeps you wrapped in heat and light as well (when I use a little 3 LED lamp for reading).&nbsp; <BR><BR><DIV><A href="http://hackedgadgets.com/2009/10/16/terracotta-pot-candle-heater/" rel=nofollow target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">http://hackedgadgets.com/2009/10/16/terracotta-pot-candle-heater/</SPAN></A></DIV>

 

[almurray]

I bought a Dickinson P12000 last year from Boat Owners World. Works extremely well and looks like a mini fireplace. There are other options, but most if not all, take up floor space and we are using it in a Tiny House. We do not have floor space so having a unit that fits on a wall is a big plus. It also has a double pipe so it takes in air from outside and then vents it outside. When you compare Dickinson\'s unit to other options there does not seem to be any real cons with this product. By the way, Boat Owners World had the lowest price last year and they still do.

 

[highdesertranger]

if it was me, I would make sure I could stay warm and comfy without any type of heater. that way if anything were to happen to your heat source. you could survive. after you have that taken care of then think of a heater. in a small vehicle, an electric is the safest but you must be plugged into the grid. after that I would go with a small propane heater like a little buddy. I believe you just don't have the room for a permanently mounted heater. highdesertranger