Help with House Electrical Design and Components

[sassypickins]

I am upgrading my van’s house 12v electrical system.   I have solar power now.  I am adding power from 1) a AC to DC charger/converter and 2) the van battery.
 
I’ve gone as far as I can; now I need your help. I know it needs to be right to be safe.

If you are willing, what I’d like to know is what wire you would run to and from each component, and have I omitted anything important or included anything redundant or overkill?

Once it becomes more clear what goes where, I’ll lay everything out for installation and take some pictures and post them for feedback.  I'd do a schematic but that is beyond me.

The battery bank will be in a separated side of a floor box and everything else will be in the other section, except the solar controller, which will be above on the wall.
 
My existing and proposed components are:
 
CHARGING SOURCES:
 
Solar (existing): One 190 watt portable panel. Pos and Neg #10 wires twisted together to solar controller and for portability, powerpole connections at converter end.
 
Progressive Dynamics PD9245C 45 amp AC to DC charger/converter (to do). Plug for AC source. 2 lugs. Neg chassis ground screw to…
 
Van  battery (to do):  (van/house battery bank close in age ) Is this right> Pos #16 from power-on fused source to solenoid, neg #16 ground to frame, #4 from 175 amp alternator to solenoid, #4 from alt pos to house batt bank pos with 100 amp in-line fuse near each end, #4 from neg van batt to neg house batt bank (but which neg post?) All #4’s flex conduit and zip tied.  I’ll have to borrow or rent a hydraulic crimper for all the big stuff.
 
HOUSE POWER:
 
Batteries: Two same age 6v Trojan T105-RE wet cell 225 Ah wired in series for one 12v 225 Ah (existing), in a wooden vented lidded box bolted to the floor (to do).
 
Charger/converter when on shore power.
 
LOADS:

#14 through flex conduit, copper ring terminals, heat shrink tubing, quick-connectors at appliance ends) to >>Norcold compressor fridge (existing w/30 amp fuse), Dual 12v outlets for misc low-amp appliance use (some existing, some to do), 12v tv/dvd (to do), LED lighting (to do).
 
PROTECTION:
 
Surge protector (to do):  Is this needed?  Before the charger/converter’s AC plug?
Main breaker or fuse (to do):  Is this needed in my system?
Blue Seas 5025 (8) Blade Fuse Block and various blade fuses (existing):
MidNite Kid 30 amp solar controller (existing using #8):
30 amp fuse for controller (existing):
Positive bus bar (to do): Helpful/prudent?
Negative grounding: I get that stuff needs grounding.  But how and where is very mysterious. Do I want/need a negative bus bar, w/a #4 to chassis ground, and what connects to the bar? Some say ground to frame is ok; others say it’s not a good enough metal; I’m confuzzled.
 
MONITORING
 
500 amp shunt and attaching MidNite WhizBangJr (to do) connecting to Kid:  The WhizBangJr will allow the programmable Kid to display all source/battery charge/discharge status.
Digital multi-meter
Hydrometer and safety gear to check batteries.
Do I need any additional metering/display?
 
FUTURE (to do):
 
Inverter:  Pure sine wave, 800 – 1000 watt:  #2 wire.  …something about being especially careful with the grounding on this...  Use its plugs, no fuse box or add’l outlets planned.

Thank you in advance.

Sassy

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I am upgrading my van’s house 12v electrical system.   I have solar power now.  I am adding power from 1) a AC to DC charger/converter and 2) the van battery.
 
Van  battery (to do):  (van/house battery bank close in age ) Is this right> Pos #16 from power-on fused source to solenoid, neg #16 ground to frame, #4 from 175 amp alternator to solenoid, #4 from alt pos to house batt bank pos with 100 amp in-line fuse near each end, #4 from neg van batt to neg house batt bank (but which neg post?) 

Batteries: Two same age 6v Trojan T105-RE wet cell 225 Ah wired in series for one 12v 225 Ah (existing), in a wooden vented lidded box bolted to the floor (to do).
 
Positive bus bar (to do): Helpful/prudent?

Negative grounding: I get that stuff needs grounding.  But how and where is very mysterious. Do I want/need a negative bus bar, w/a #4 to chassis ground, and what connects to the bar? Some say ground to frame is ok; others say it’s not a good enough metal; I’m confuzzled.
 

You have two 6 volt batteries wired together in series.  Battery 1 is your positive connection, and the negative post on Battery 1 goes to the positive post on Battery 2.  The negative post on battery 2 is your negative connection.  The negative wire from the van battery goes to the negative on Battery 2.  If you tried to hook it up to the negative post on Battery 1, it would only see 6 volts, not 12, and a 12 volt to 6 volt hook up would be VERY bad.  Lots of smoke and fireworks.

I'm a huge believer in using positive and negative bus bars.  It's physically difficult to hook all kinds of wires up directly to the battery posts.  You'll have positive and negative wires from the solar controller, the converter, the inverter, the fuse box, the van battery, etc.  MUCH easier to hook everything up to buss bars than to try to cram them all on two battery posts.

Negative grounding.  Well, start by not thinking of it as grounding but rather as a return path.  On vehicles, the engine battery is "grounded" to the frame, which means the manufacturer only has to run a hot wire back to the tail lights, say, and the tail lights are grounded, so you have a complete circuit with the power returning to the battery through the frame/chassis.  The manufacturer doesn't have to run two wires for each circuit, so they save a TON of time, money and weight by doing this.

You're house battery doesn't HAVE to be grounded to the frame, but if it's not, then you have to run a return wire from every light, fan, accessory, etc. back to the battery.  Actually, if you're mounting all this stuff on wooden walls, you're going to have to do this anyway.  BTW, if your house battery WAS grounded, then you wouldn't have to run a separate return wire between the negative poles of the house battery and the van battery, the frame would be your return path.  Just so you know, not having the house battery attached to the frame is called having a "floating ground".  You mentioned that you have a fuse block.  Some of them only have connections for hot wires, some of them have separate grounding screws for the return wires, and a post to run a wire to the battery negative.

Wires grounded to the frame can eventually rust and corrode, causing "bad grounds".  If you unhook and clean them once a year as part of your routine maintenance, this isn't a problem.

Hope this helps.  Rest of your stuff looks pretty good to me.

 

[ccbreder]

(a) That is not called a floating ground. Floating Grounds are referenced when dealing with alternating current.
(b) I don't know what Norcold you have, but I don't think 18 awg is enough for 30 amps.
(c) Use a chart to determine the amps permitted through the awg for the length you need.
(d) You can order pre-made wires from http://www.genuinedealz.com/custom-cables. They also have a chart for wire sizes and fuse capacity.
(e) we are better off using too large of a wire awg than too small with excess voltage drop.

 

[sassypickins]

John,

Thank you for the grounding explanation!

This fuse block has separate grounding screws for each of the 8 circuits, a hot post on the bottom and a ground post on the top.  I connected those straight to the battery posts because that was it other than the solar controller wires.  Now, with more stuff, what you said about the bus bars is why I thought I might use them.  I didn’t like the idea of having so many ring terminals piled on top of each other on the battery posts.  Would I want a main breaker between the pos batt and the pos bus bar?

I was thinking I would run a ground wire from the house bank directly back to the van battery whereas the positive will be alt>solenoid>house bank. Since none of my appliance circuits will be attached to metal, I would have a ground coming back from each to the fuse block.  From what you said, this would be a floating ground system, is that correct?

Did I mess up on the proposed position of one of the 100 amp fuses in the van charging run?  Should it be alt>fuse>solenoid>fuse>house bank instead of alt>solenoid>fuse>fuse>house bank?

I appreciate your help, John, thank you.

Sassy

 

[SternWake]

If you are taking advantage of the alternator for charging house batteries
Then the Shunt must go inbetween house batteries and frame.  All loads and charging sources to one side of the shunt, Only a single cable going from battery side of shunt to battery (-)
No other cable can goto  house battery (-) but for the battery temp sensor from solar charge controller.  If any other cable/wire goes to house battery (-), the shunt will not be able to read the current, and the battery monitor will be inaccurate.
A few ring terminals can be stacked on the load/ source side of the  shunt for the larger wire, but one should be to a Buss bar for smaller  more numerous (-) loads   A buss bar and the DC fuse block side by side can organize wiring.
The INverter (-)  ring terminal, should be stacked on the load side of the shunt, with cable that grounds to frame.  Ideally, a fat black (-) cable would run back to alternator mounting bolt rather than using a frame ground, but either works, as long as the ground to van body is into thick metal.  It is wise to add a ground from frame nearby alternator to alternator mounting bolt if grounding house battery to frame near house battery.  So consider running a second cable just for the house battery ground back to alternator if the difference is just a few feet as it will pass more current and be a  longer lasting connection.


I would use wire thicker than 14awg on the fridge.  Consider running its fuse right to battery(+) rather than fuse block as well, and its (-) to the load side of the shunt.  All DC fridges instruction manuals say it is better to not share distribution Busses with other loads, like buss bars or a common rail fuse block.  How important is this?  IDK, think of it as warm and fuzzy and worth the effort, even if it might not be.  It is not just a voltage drop standpoint but electrical spikes from when other device shut off, which might cumulatively damage the compressor controller's electronics

 

[sassypickins]

Does this sound right for grounding:

Appliances>neg fuse block>non-load side shunt>neg bus bar>neg house batt. 

Solar controller>non-load side shunt>neg bus bar>neg house batt. 

Charger>non-load side shunt>neg bus bar>neg house batt.  (There’s a separate chassis ground on the back. I could take that over to the van body frame and grind a spot clean and screw it there with a lock washer.  Would that be sufficient?)

Neg house batt>van batt.

Thanks for the wiring link, ccbreder.  I realized I didn’t say I do have a larger wire to the fridge.  I think it's a #12.

Sassy

 

[sassypickins]

uh - oh, never mind my last post, I just saw Sternwake's and it seems I still don't have a clue so let me absorb that and see how I can rearrange the puzzle, the order of stuff. thanks guys!

 

[sassypickins]

Ok, how’s this - negative side only:

Neg appliances except fridge>neg fuse block>neg bus bar>load side shunt>neg house batt>alt mount bolt.

Neg fridge>neg house batt.

Neg solar controller>neg bus bar>load side shunt>neg house batt>alt mount bolt.  (Add’l solar controller temp sensor #10>neg house batt.)

Neg charger/converter>neg bus bar>load side shunt>neg house batt>alt mount bolt.  (Add’l #8 from ground lug>chassis.)

Neg house batt>alt mount bolt.

Future  inverter:

Neg inverter>load side shunt (I think I read it should take first place there)>neg house batt>neg alt mount bolt (Does this cover what you talk about in grounding the inverter SW?).  Add’l #8 from ground lug>chassis. 

Sassy

 

[Mobilesport]

@Sassypickens
I would try to get someone to post a picture or schematic of how they have theres wired , easier to understand that way.
Then you can use the parts that are the same as yours and 
disregard the parts that don't pertain to you then get a big piece of
paper and draw a picture of your components and wiring..
I wish i would've done it that way
I would plan out all of the details before trying to actually wire anything

 

[sassypickins]

Thanks, Mobilesport!

I have fallen asleep over a lot of schematics; probably had them upside down and backwards. I don't expect I will ever understand electricity, the terminology, or how it works. 

I feel like I'm on to something here, though.  I'm absorbing the responses that are tailored to my questions and I feel like I'm finally breaking through.  I even started a rudimentary drawing of my own that I think just might make sense.  That's after tossing wad after wad of really bad tries in the trash over the past couple of weeks.  Once I get it right, no doubt I'll find dozens of practically mirror diagrams online and go, "Oh! Duh!" 

Well, who knows how our brains work in such different ways.

I've had a small system in place for a year -- just solar to controller to fuse to batteries and appliance fuse block to batteries -- but  I've taken all that apart so I can add the other stuff.

What has helped the most is thinking through the two sides of the circuit separately.  Just working on the negative side today has helped me a lot!  If you've ever wiggled both hands in front of a cat, you've seen how the cat doesn't know which hand to go after and usually just gives up and leaves.  That's how it felt to try to think about both the positive and negative runs at the same time.

If I get the word I'm on the right track I'll move on to the positive side.

I won't be connecting stuff until it's all sorted out and surely not the final electrifying connection until I'm sure it's right and safe, thanks!

Sassy

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

John,

Thank you for the grounding explanation!

This fuse block has separate grounding screws for each of the 8 circuits, a hot post on the bottom and a ground post on the top.  I connected those straight to the battery posts because that was it other than the solar controller wires.  Now, with more stuff, what you said about the bus bars is why I thought I might use them.  I didn’t like the idea of having so many ring terminals piled on top of each other on the battery posts.  Would I want a main breaker between the pos batt and the pos bus bar?

I would definitely put a fuse or circuit breaker between the battery and the positive buss bar. 

I was thinking I would run a ground wire from the house bank directly back to the van battery whereas the positive will be alt>solenoid>house bank.

I believe Sternwake recommends the separate negative wire between engine and house batteries to minimize voltage drop and maximize charging current.  It does cost extra money to do it that way.

Since none of my appliance circuits will be attached to metal, I would have a ground coming back from each to the fuse block.  From what you said, this would be a floating ground system, is that correct?

On reflection,I believe ccbreder is correct that the phrase "floating ground"  is more correctly reserved for alternating current circuits.

Did I mess up on the proposed position of one of the 100 amp fuses in the van charging run?  Should it be alt>fuse>solenoid>fuse>house bank instead of alt>solenoid>fuse>fuse>house bank?

The purpose of two fuses is to protect the wire between the two batteries in case it shorts out against the frame.  Since both batteries are capable of supplying current, you have to fuse both ends.  As a practical matter, you probably can't attach a fuse directly to the alternator, and assuming the solenoid is located in the engine compartment, it probably doesn't matter which side of the solenoid it goes on.  The fuse on the house battery needs to be as close to the battery as possible, but probably attaching it to the positive buss bar would be adequate.

I appreciate your help, John, thank you.

Sassy

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

BTW, if you SHOULD have to mount two or more ring terminals to the same screw, you always put the lighter connection - say the ring on a 10 gauge wire - on TOP of a heavier connection - like the ring on a 4 gauge wire.  This may seem minor, but it's actually pretty important.

 

[sassypickins]

Thanks, John.

Am I using the words ground and grounding incorrectly? Is the non-load side of a run in my DC system just called the negative side? And at one or more points it needs to be grounded? Hour-by-hour my internal smart/dumb meter is fluctuating wildly.

Anyway, about that negative run from the alternator mount bolt to the neg house battery: I don't see how the shunt/WhizBangJr will be able to read the charge off the van battery if I connect it that way. Or am I misunderstanding and is this a different and 2nd negative wire to the alt mount bolt for grounding purposes only, and there's another one just like it but it goes from...solenoid?... to the neg buss bar so that the shunt will register the juice.

About the ring terminals: Ok, thanks. I think that's what the inverter manual meant -- to make sure the #2 ring terminal got the choice position on the post -- went on first.

Thank you.

Sassy

 

[SternWake]

Sassy, I was once where you are now. 
Your question about the house and engine battery grounds shows you understand more than you think.  I remember having the same questions when first figuring this out.

This is a situation where I would love to be able to draw a picture in front of you, but the medium of typing and my inability make things concise precise and accurate, without confusing you in the process, fails me. 

I am also highly inebriated at the moment.

So here as the quick and dirty.

Negative side  Alternator casing Stud, or  mounting bolt  goes to frame and or engine block which then  goes to ..load/charge  side of shunt.

Fridge negative  wire  Fridge to 'load' side of shunt
Fridge positive to Either  Blue seas Fuse block via 12awg, or in the ideal world, Fridge positive goes directly to house battery (+) with its own dedicated separate inline fuse(30 amps per Norcold)  which is located close to House battery (+). ABYC codes say all fuses 'should be withing 7 inches of house battery (+) terminal.  The (-) can be fused, but would be redundant if the (+) is already fused.
 

The Shunt is 'only' for the negative side of ALL loads and Source (-) wires/cables.

Two sides of the shunt
One side is from shunt to house battery negative called the battery side of shunt
Other side of Shunt  is for ALL DC Loads (-) OR All charging sources(-).

As One can only stack 3 or 4 ring terminals on LOAD/Source side of Shunt, and as said the thickest wire/ ring terminal needs to be on bottom of the stack.  The ring terminals should also NOT be loose/ sloppy on the Shunt, but be only slightly larger than the Bolt size just enough to fit over the stud.

Place  frame/ alternator/engine ground to load/charge side of shunt.  Leave original engine battery  to engine ground cable 
in place.

PLace Inverter ground cable to load side of shunt
Place (-) Buss bar on load side of shunt.  Attach all small wires like for lights or 12v outlet (-) onto this buss bar.

PLace PD9245 (-) cable onto load/ charge side of shunt.

On battery side of shunt, place only the one thick 4awg or thicker, cable from battery side of shunt to one of the 6vGC-2 negative battery terminals

The positive of this same battery, needs a thick short 'series' cable going to the (-) of the other 6v- gc-2 battery. 4 awg or thicker.  No thinner than inverter's cables, preferably on gauge or more thicker.  The positive of the second battery, this is now the (+) output of the now 12v battery.  The other battery (+) only has the one single fat 'series' cable in between the (+) of 6v battery number 1 and (-) of 6v battery number 2.

To this (+) of the second battery goes the cable to the (+) cable which goes to Blue seas fuse block which then becomes(+) load distribution center for the minor loads.

The (+) of the second battery gets a ring terminal from the PD9245. Thick for 45 amps and minimal voltage drop

The Positive of this second battery gets a ring terminal from the Inverter.  Thick once again.

The POsitive of this battery gets the fat cable from the solenoid, that then goes to alternator (+) stud.

The POsitive of this second 6v battery gets a cable from the solar charge controller.

The inverter (+) cable needs a fuse or circuit breaker, the amperage of this fuse depends on the wire size you use.

The Solar charge controller (+) wire requires a fuse of a certain amperage as listed in the Directions of the solar charge controller, even if the wire size is 4awg, and the controller says 30 amps max, use a 30 amp circuit breaker or fuse between charge controller and battery (+)

The Wire from house battery (+) to  Blue seas fuse block "should" also be fused.  If the distance is Short  And one is sure this cable cannot ever shortout/chafe through  wire insulation, One 'can' skip this fuse. This wire is a good one to oversize with 4awg or thicker.  Technically, it should be fused for the wire size that goes from house battery (+) to fuse block.

The wire/cable that goes to solenoid from second 6v  house battery(+), should also be fused according to the thickness of wire size used on that run of cable.

The House battery (-)  Of 6v battery number 1 runs to the battery side of the shunt.  The ONLY other wire which goes to 6v battery number 1(-) , is the temperature sensor from the solar charge controller.

 The ONLY wire which goes to 6v battery number 2 (-) cable comes from battery number 1(+).
Redundancy in this next sentence;
In between 6v battery number 1 (+) terminal, and negative of 6v house battery number 2, is a thick cable, going from (+) to (-) of second house battery (-)

NO other wire goes to this second 6v house battery (-) terminal, but possibly, for convenience,  the battery temperature sensor from charge controller.

NOw I have listed many (+) ring terminals which need to attach to (+) of 6v house battery # 2.  Too many cables really. One can instead use a Positive Buss bar/ distribution stud to hook all these (+) loads and charging sources, and then run a single wire from Buss stud to second battery (+). This keeps things a bit simpler, and this wire/cable should really be quite fat to handle the possible combined loads of the other wires

https://www.amazon.com/Positive-Insulated-Battery-Power-Junction/dp/B00784HYI2

One can stack many thicker ring terminals on this product^^,  and then only have one super thick wire running from this Buss stud, to second battery house (+)

This stud should be protected from any nearby grounds inadvertently touching the  threaded bolt.  One can save some insulation from their battery cables and twist it over the end threads, or go even further to protect this (+) stud from accidental shorting + to -

If the Stud is chosen, then there 'should' technically be a fuse between house battery #2 positive and the buss stud, the fuse size depends on the wire gauge used.  It would not pass an ABYC inspection if this fuse were skipped.  But, if thick, and fully protected from possible chafing............  

Fuses require extra connections and cause voltage drop, and the purpose of using thick wire, it to prevent voltage drop. I can't say skip this specific fuse, but many people do. 

If all the cables which go  and from from  Buss stud are the same thickness, then one can instead use a fuse like this which attaches to the (+) of second 6v house battery (+)

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Sys...=1-2-catcorr&keywords=blue+seas++battery+fuse

This^^^ fuse holder requires more height above  the battery, and of course the proper size fuse for the biggest wire gauge you are employing .  One needs to carry extra fuses if this fuse holder is employed, as one can not simply go into an autoparts store and buy a replacement. One 'could' rig it without a fuse in an emergency, at the risk of chernoyble or Fukushima type events until the fuse is replaced.
 One Should never require a second fuse, well at least for several years of use near its rating, but this fuse is the Catastrophic fuse for a direct short which could  weld steel and cause a Chernobyl type meltdown.

Technically every (+) wire or cable coming from house battery (+)  ot (+) stud, or fuse block, should be fused at the rating of the wire.
Every fuse which protects wire to the blue seas fuse block to the loads, needs to be sized for the thinnest wire used on that circuit.  redundancy, proof reading,  eyes crossing.. sleep nearing.

Ok I am too Tired to continue

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Thanks, John.

Am I using the words ground and grounding incorrectly?  Is the non-load side of a run in my DC system just called the negative side?  And at one or more points it needs to be grounded?

Unfortunately, the words "ground" and "grounding" can have different meanings in AC and DC.  In AC, you have three wires, Hot, Return (which they call "neutral") and Ground, which is also called Safety Ground.  Under normal AC operating conditions, no current EVER flows through the Ground wire.  It's eventually attached to that 10 foot grounding rod that was driven into the earth near the meter on your sticks and bricks, and it's only purpose is to provide a safe path to "ground" if something goes wrong.  This is to prevent the current from flowing through YOU if you touch something "hot" and stopping your heart.  If you have any AC current coming into your vehicle - like to power a converter - then that third wire needs to be grounded to your frame/chassis to protect you from what's called a "hot skin" condition where you get a shock if you touch the metal vehicle while standing on the ground.

BTW, those fancy GFCI outlets (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) contains extra components that monitor the ground wire and turn the whole thing off if they detect any current on the ground wire. You can buy a short extension cord with a GFCI built in, and I would recommend one of these to you.

https://www.amazon.com/Tower-Manufa...UTF8&qid=1482743649&sr=8-4&keywords=gfci+cordY


As mentioned earlier, with the DC circuits used in vehicles, the manufacturer's chose to use the frame for the return and call it a "ground" and we're stuck with that terminology now.  And no, you don't HAVE to ground your house batteries.  If you're running a heavy negative cable between the engine and house systems, I suppose technically the house system is "grounded" to the frame by way of the engine battery's ground connection, anyway.  Don't spend too much time and angst overthinking this.

 

[blars]

BTW, those fancy GFCI outlets (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) contains extra components that monitor the ground wire and turn the whole thing off if they detect any current on the ground wire.

This is a common misconception, GFCI's work by detecting different current in the hot and neutral conductors. In some cases, you can use a GFCI with a two-wire circuit (no safety ground) where the ground would be legally required without the GFCI.

 

[sassypickins]

Sternwake:  Best coherent inebriated ramblings I’ve had the pleasure to be the recipient of lately.  This was the ‘Insert Tab A into Slot A’ I was looking for.  I appreciate the time you put into it.  Hope you were listening to fine muzak whilst working away.

I hope I have a different option regarding (-) runs, because:  Bringing the 1) alt/solenoid, 2) fridge, 3) inverter, and 4) charger/convertor back to the shunt load side would be fine -- if the #4 copper ring terminal hole was big enough to fit on the post – it isn’t.

So, could I run all those including 5) fuse panel main (-) and 6) solar controller (-) to the negative buss bar, and leave the smaller load (-) runs on the fuse panel where they are now?  Assuming a #2 ring terminal would fit, I’d use that with a #2 for the run from the battery end of the shunt to the (-) house battery.  Oh, and a #2 seems in order for an inverter, so it could bypass the negative buss bar and go directly to the shunt.

Regarding a main switch and/or catastrophic fuse at or near house battery (+), I think I’d like my system ‘on’ all the time, so a main switch doesn’t seem necessary.  The catastrophic fuse sounds kinda cool and maybe smart for a diy’er like me who may not do the best job at safely installing every little thing for a long life.  We’d never turn into o-van-broiled pizza, right? 

Wires going from the battery compartment to the ‘everything else’ compartment will run through rubber-grommeted holes in the plywood separator wall. Is this safe enough?  Also same through firewall, and because I don’t want to crawl around under the van, the alt/solenoid wires will come in through the firewall on the passenger side in conduit. It will run under the van’s ‘permanent’ floor mat, be clip bracketed along the edge of the side door well step, and go up into the battery box which will be between the side door and the passenger back wheel well.  I think that also will qualify as the shortest run.  Sound ok?

Thanks, John and Blars – I’m not going to sweat bullets over all that -- just don’t want to be more confusing to y’all than I already am by nature.  Long as I wire it up right, it can call itself whatever it wants, ha ha!

Sassy

 

[highdesertranger]

let me try to help,  or confuse.  here is a super simple schematic of the negative shunt.



in this diagram there is only one wire coming off the negative battery post.  this goes to the battery side of the shunt.  then one wire goes to the negative bus bar.  then all your grounds go to the bus bar.  you could also run a couple of grounds to the bus bar side of the shunt(load side).  if any grounds go to the battery side of the shunt or the battery itself,  the load will not be read by the shunt.  hope that helps.  highdesertranger

 

[SternWake]

- if the #4 copper ring terminal hole was big enough to fit on the post – it isn’t.

So, could I run all those including 5) fuse panel main (-) and 6) solar controller (-) to the negative buss bar, and leave the smaller load (-) runs on the fuse panel where they are now?  Assuming a #2 ring terminal would fit, I’d use that with a #2 for the run from the battery end of the shunt to the (-) house battery.  Oh, and a #2 seems in order for an inverter, so it could bypass the negative buss bar and go directly to the shunt.

The # 4 ring terminals can likely be drilled out to a wider diameter so the Shunts bolts can go through them.

Use a stepped drill bit, and hold ring terminal in vice grips or similar.

YOu can Hook all loads to the buss bar or Buss Stud, but Ideally The bigger ring terminals should be right on load/charge side of Shunt.  The Fridge (-) too, even though this might be only 14awg. 
 If you use the Buss bar method to hook the #4 ring terminals, then that requires a very fat cable from buss bar to  the Load/ charge side of the Shunt.

The Van's stock battery is grounded to the engine block.  Since you are utilizing the alternator to xcharge house batteries, the house batteries also need to be grounded to this engine block.  When you ground batteries to frame, then the original battery to engine ground carries the current for starter battery, and the House battery, and then it is a restriction when house battery is depleted.

Of bigger concern is that many Van's only have a thin ground from engine battery to the firewall/fenderwell.  This thinner ground wire is now being asked to carry all the alternator  current to house batteries, and is overwhelmingly too small for this task and becomes an electrical bottleneck limiting recharging amps.

So this is Why I recommend that One add another ground cable from frame nearby the alternator, to an alternator mounting bolt.  If one rather not do this, or it is too difficult, then the original ground wire from engine battery to Firewall needs to be thickened/ doubled, or one can ground the engine battery directly to frame.  Then the original battery to engine ground carries the current, and it might only be 6awg and cause significant voltage drop when house batteries are depleted and can suck up 70+ amps.

So one can upgrade the original engine battery to engine block ground cable to beef up the alternator charging circuit.  And Beef up the engine battery to firewall/fenderwell/frame circuit.
      But when considering the beefing up of these original grounds, it might be easier, and use only slightly more length of copper, perhaps less, to just to run a 4awh or thicker ground cable from Load/charge side of shunt, directly to alternator mounting bolt.  From a maximum  alternator Amperage into depleted house battery, this is ideal, and also does not touch any of the original Vehicle ground wiring, and also eliminates the problematic frame grounds.

But, the frame to alternator mounting bolt is the shortest circuit if one chooses to ground Shunt to frame nearby Shunt.  Just leave enough slack in cable for allowing the engine to flex.  Many of these ground cables from frame to engine use Braided cable for this purpose as the vibration and engine flex can weaken thicker copper over time.

https://www.amazon.com/BRAIDED-GROU...82796856&sr=1-4&keywords=braided+ground+cable

All The Frame ground's mating surfaces need to be free of paint and grime, Shiny,  and be tight, then covered with liquid electrical tape or grease or some way to help prevent corrosion.

Do not ground house batteries just to thin sheet metal nearby, you want them grounded to thicker frame metal, or run longer thicker cable right to alternator mounting bolt from load/charge side of Shunt.

 

[sassypickins]

Ok, thanks all, on the shunt vs neg buss bar options.

Ummm, the plan's still to go with the longer run from house (-) back to (-) alt mount bolt for the grounding; I wasn't thinking of grounding to frame near shunt.  So am I on track? If I understand you correctly, SW, this is the only ground needed and I don't have to beef up any of the van battery to fender grounding, right?

(To throw in a teeny monkeywrench, my PD charger/converter says it wants to be additionally safety-grounded to frame and has a little post on the back and instructions to do that.  I recall seeing similar instruction on inverters I was researching.  Should I comply? If I don't have to, I won't.  I like not doing extra work these days.)

Shopping tomorrow.  My least-favorite pastime, but you've propelled me at warp speed to that point, so I guess I'd better get on with it.

Sassy