Held responsible for new owner of my old van's parking tickets.

[GoingMobile]

I made some mistakes in selling an old van last summer. I had the buyer fill out a bill of sale, but neglected to check it before he left. After he had driven away I noticed he neglected to fill out his address on the bill of sale, just provided an email and phone number.

I contacted Mississippi DMV where the vehicle was registered and they told me they do not have a Transfer of Ownership and Release of Liability form. I looked online at the California DMV where I sold the van and they would not allow me to register the sale because the vehicle was not registered in California.

Months later I started receiving parking tickets for the vehicle, I would send them back with a copy of the bill of sale, but since there was not an address for the new owner they continued to hold me responsible for the vehicle and the new owners transgressions. I have called, left messages, emailed the new owner with no response. I think he scammed me. I have filed a report with the local Sheriff's Department. 

I went to the CA DMV this morning and they told me they could not help me since the buyer did not fully fill out the bill of sale and since the car was registered in another state. At this point my biggest concern is tickets accruing I don't know about and getting pulled over and finding there are warrants out on me.

Anybody have any useful experience dealing with and resolving such a situation?

 

[tx2sturgis]

Don't know about your state but here in Texas, we can go online to the state DMV website as soon as we sell a vehicle and enter the plate number and the VIN and click the box where it says something to the effect of 'I no longer own this vehicle'...once you do that you are no longer responsible for it.

 

[bullfrog]

I would think the Sheriff's department would consider it a stolen car as it was never properly transferred. I would press them to do so if they haven't. I would be concerned that my insurance company would raise my rates so I would make sure they have a copy of the Sheriff's report as well. Does the vehicle still have plates and if so when do they expire? You should be able to find most anybody now a days with a name, cell phone and an email address. Do a Google and Facebook search. Check state records for an address or criminal record, then check details in local press outlets as they usually list the area or address of the person involved in the crime. A private detective agency though expensive may be necessary. My experience resulted in me being handcuffed in the back of a police car and transported across state lines after explaining to the buyer the car was for parts only and not to be put back on the road he proceeded to simply cut out the visible vin numbers of his old car and weld them in the car body he had bought from me along with his motor (probably stolen) and trans. He was pulled over while driving it and said I had sold him the car failing to mention I had sold it for parts only in a non running condition. Funny twist of fate and circumstances I ended up getting to keep the running car as well as his money and the Police let him go. Got to love the State Police back home. I doubt you will have such a good outcome being an out of state person in California.

 

[mattvei]

You're treading on thin ice. ALWAYS file a release of liability which is under your control. See if you can still do that in CA. If your a AAA member, their registration staff can usually guide you thru what to do. If not a AAA member, might be worth a join. If tickets are being issued in MS, then at some point court will issue a failure to appear bench warrant. Check if that goes into a national registry accessible from a traffic stop. They might even file a negative credit report on the fees unpaid, particularly if they turn it over to a debt collector. Cheek your credit report for free at the government web site annualcreditreport.com Otherwise never go to MS.

 

[crofter]

I usually cut the plates in half.  There is a DMV form you can fill out stating that the vehicle is sold (in OR), and they will just check the box in their computer if you are there in the DMV office. I'm assuming you sign digitally and nothing that the buyer has to do.
-crofter

 

[maki2]

When I buy. Or sell a vehicle I hmm o to the license registration office eityh the other pa rty. Get the billmof sale n otorized and get all the transfer of title paperwotrk completed right then and there. That way if there is an issue it gets resolved right away.

 

[HappyLife1977]

Worse case, hang onto your copies and go to court on one of the tickets and explain. Write out the facts, the dates, have it notarized as a legal statement with a copy of the bill of sale attached. Did you notify your insurance company you were no longer the owner? Can you get a copy of that? Filing with the shireff is a good idea. People make mistakes. Breath deep. Make the government do it's damn job, too. Good luck!

 

[Malamute]

I wonder if leaving voice mails and emails saying if you dont hear back from him in 48 hours you will report it as stolen to the police would get his attention?

But yes, you made some serious mistakes when you sold it. How to correct them is the question. It may be worth a consultation with a lawyer to get advice. if you are low income, there may be lawyers that work low fees or pro bono that could help you. id rather talk to a lawyer BEFORE YOU end up in trouble for something HE did rather than AFTER YOU get in trouble. It may seem like the deal of the century if you wait too long rather than an unneeded expense.

Whatever the cost of the vehicle, which is now irrelevant in the big picture, you now have to pay for the learning part of this. Do it before it comes and bites you. You may want to consider filing a civil suit against the buyer for any legal fees and problems he causes over this.

 

[Happy Camper]

I just read up on this.

Mississippi requires that when you sell a vehicle you turn the plates over to the dept of revenue. The buyer needs to obtain new plates. They do not have a release of liability in that state for vehicles.

Even though you and the van are in CA, you never completed the sale requirements for Mississippi apparently. CA requires the new owner register that vehicle in CA within 30 days if I remember correctly.


How long has it been since you sold it? It sounds like it's been a while since you've been a sending mail back and forth regarding it.

If it were me I would see if the parking tickets were all from the same area or location. If so, contact the police station of the officers that wrote them and ask what your options are. Explain the situation and see what options they might offer you. This shows them that you're a good person that is trying to fix a problem and is trying to do the right thing. This also let's them know that the person that bought the van and is getting these tickets might or might not be taking advantage of the system. They might have found they they don't have the proper paperwork to register it in CA and are stuck with it and out the money they paid. You never know.

Try calling that number from another phone and see if they answer maybe. Are you sure it was even their actual phone number?

 

[WanderingRose]

Unpaid parking tickets might eventually land one in front of a judge, so keep a close eye on that and be prepared to appear and tell the court what has occurred.

You don’t need an attorney, but do want to show up and bring what paper you have that shows you sold the van.

 

[jonthebru]

It looks like technically in the eyes of the law you still own it. Play hardball and report it stolen. 
A similar thing happened to me and I ended up having to go in front of a judge to clear the parking tickets.
I learned to always complete the transaction with the authorities.

 

[txmnjim]

^^not sure adding a false report to his case is going to help anything? i have had many cars sold
that the new owner didn't change over title to their name. in MN i just filled out a form, but it did
ask for the name&address of buyer, and i no longer have any responsibility. if i had $250 many years
ago i could have gotten back an old VW Scirocco that still started like a champ at over 250K miles from
an impound lot that contacted me

 

[Weight]

Sorry for your problem. After a year there is much difficulty in getting it squared away. You only alternative is to get an attorney. Get one in the state where you registered the van.

 

[Morgana]

My condolences; what an unpleasant problem. I agree with the advice to get legal help. In many (all?) US states, the bar association offers a service where you can get a brief consultation with a lawyer for a very low price. They won't solve your whole problem, but they'll help you figure out just how much trouble you are (or aren't) in and what it would take to fix it. I've used it twice in different states and found it helpful, and neither one gave me a hard sell to use their full-price services. I can't remember what the program is called, but you should be able to find it on your state bar website. (Caveat: last time I used it was 10 years ago; hope this is still A Thing.)

At a minimum there must be a way to draw a line so you're not responsible for any future abuses by this person (and of course, I hope you won't be on the hook for past ones). Good luck!

 

[MotorVation]

I think most metro areas have this, but back in Tampa Florida there's a news channel with a segment called "Better Call Behnken." People go to her when they're getting screwed one way or the other. [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]When practical she shows up with a full production crew and it goes on the six o'clock news[/font]. A lot of the time she's dealing with red tape from governments or businesses. 

You would be AMAZED at the results she gets once the poop is out of the bag and into the limelight. 

It may be worth a try

 

[GoingMobile]

Update, 04/19/2021;
I talked with the tax office where it is registered in Mississippi and the woman I spoke with said she believed I could still surrender the plates without having to physically have the plates to surrender. It sounds incredulous but I'm hoping that she is right. I could afford to pay the existing fines without trouble but really want to avoid future hassles from this loose end. If that doesn't work I'm going to try to find the vehicle and remove the plate myself. No plate, no problem.

The person I talked with at this office when I sold the vehicle said Mississippi did not require me to send in the plates when I sold. It seems that was not really the case.  I was not able do a Transfer of Ownership and Release of Liability in California due to the vehicle being registered in another state.

I have learned a lot from this experience. Next time I will take a picture of their drivers license, make sure they sign the bill of sale correctly, file a ROTL in the appropriate state or return plates immediately. And unfortunately don't trust people to do the right thing. At least I'll have this story to tell to explain why I'm being picky about how we complete the transaction.

Thanks for all of the suggestions!

 

[Malamute]

If Im understand that correctly, you can notify them you no longer have it and they cancel the plates, even if you dont physically have them. That sounds like a win. If its run, they come back as non-valid. Could be a real improvement in your liability situation, and a nice surprise for the deadbeat that wont get his own plates and paperwork squared away.
 
 Whether or not the individual states want the plates back, I dont give the plates with a vehicle in any event. Some places you keep your plates and use them on the next vehicle. They make nice decorations in the garage if nothing else.

Ive gotten in the habit of taking pictures of all paperwork, money orders, addressed envelopes, anything to do with a transaction so I have records of it. Having pics of the signed and transferred title may have helped you in the case of the tickets.

 

[txmnjim]

"At least I'll have this story to tell to explain why I'm being picky about how we complete the transaction."

and it will be a cool story to tell by the campfire on the road...happy trails

 

[kklowell]

This is an older thread so I'm wondering how it was resolved. It also reminded me of an event years ago when I took a car to a junkyard and forgot to remove the plate... at the time in Massachusetts they only issued one plate. Several months later I got a notice about my vehicle being involved in an accident... which was a vehicle I had never owned. Someone took the plate off my junked car and attached it to another car, which was the one in the accident. That was pretty easy to prove, so nothing ever came of it for me.

 

[GoingMobile]

I haven't received any notices of new violations since December of 2020. Unfortunately the state of California, where it was sold, will not acknowledge it being sold without my having re-registered it, which would have meant having it smog inspected, weighed, and paying California registration. For a vehicle in the state for a week at time of sale. And at a time their offices were closed early in the pandemic. The state of Mississippi, where it was registered does not have a release of liability form when you sell a vehicle or a requirement of turning in the tags. All on the honor system. Hoping this is the last I ever hear of it, but no guarantees. If I ever see it you can be sure I'm going to follow to remove that license plate. I did get the state of Mississippi to put a stop to any renewel of the tag, and filed a police report in the county in California I sold it in regarding failure of the new owner to re-register it.