Good morning

[maki2]

I think that when one says good morning in person sometimes that is all that gets said. Other times when passing by a neighbor the weather is often mentioned. When talking to closer friends, personal health might get mentioned. When there is the time and interest a bit of the persons activities might get mentions such as "I have been keeping busy doing...." Sometimes things happening in the news also get commented on. Of course as you get older health issues might get mentioned such as having had a bad night or a loved one having a health issue.

But it should be friendly otherwise it really is not a "good morning" type of conversation.

Of course those breakfast with friends at a coffee shop or cafe tend to ramble all over the place and lots of grousing about stuff can happen at them and can continue from one breakfast meeting to the next.

 

[Qxxx]

It's waaaay better than NOT having a bucket!

If you re-read that line very slowly, you may get the low-point of the joke. (at least crifter was amused).

 

[Qxxx]

If you have holding tanks that you have to empty, 

Oh no, "holding tanks", that's worse than all the other solutions, except possibly first dumping into a blue boy, and toting that to the dump site at 2-MPH, and then doing yet a second dump of the same doo-doo. Two dumps for the price one. Eeeeewwww.

In regards the other matter, I am just bringing up the different issues involved with the different possibilities for the sake of the uninitiated around here. I've never mistaken Sofi for being uninitiated.

In regards the second other matter, I never said I "don't" use a bucket, but it's such a delicate matter I rarely talk about it personally. But just for you, Sofi ... I use a combination of kitty litter bucket, cat hole, and also camp where there's a toilet. And I never keep anything in the van for more than a day. This past winter I spent 4 weeks in the LTVA in Q, and in the summer I prefer camping in NF campgrounds, eg in CA, OR, MT, ID.

 

[maki2]

I have a 5.5 gallon portable/marine toilet. Meaning I can dump it out from a spout or empty it by means of a macerator pump. It in combination with a 5 gallon grey water tank allows me to qualify as self contained for LTVA BLM sites if I set it up with the macerator pump so I can empty it at an RV waste station via a garden hose fitting. My grey water tank also empties with a garden hose fitting via gravity.

But I also have an alternative composting toilet set up with urine diverting..

There will be times I might choose to use one versus the other. As I have a travel trailer and my tow vehicle is a Honda Element which works as camping car with good head room for sitting on the toilets. So that way I can have both and switch them around depending on which version works best for my camp site.

Of course this means I don't have to worry about which methods works best because the answer is both of them work depending on what I want to do under what circumstance. Also if I want to park my trailer and go into town or out on an day trip in the car I still have a personal toilet along.

 

[B and C]

Did the LTVA rules change? I though a 10 gallon black tank was required before you could be self containd and camp more than 500 feet from a toilet.

 

[Qxxx]

I believe you need a permanently installed holding tank of 10-gal or more to qualify at the LTVAs as self-contained. I'm not sure that half of that volume being in a portable toilet qualifies, but whatdoiknow. Rules, rules, rules. WTH. Somebody call HDR.

EDIT: you sure are fast, Brian, lol.

 

[B and C]

I ain't got much of anything else I can do but read the forum. I can't concentrate on anything as my train of thought always gets interrupted.

 

[Qxxx]

Since we're talking about shining lights now, for additional clarification, in the 2 1/2 months on the AZ winter trip, I was only without a nearby toilet on 14 nights, and those had convenient cathole places. Once you have the routes and the stops along the way figured out, it's not as bad as it looks at first light.

 

[maki2]

I believe you need a permanently installed holding tank of 10-gal or more to qualify at the LTVAs as self-contained. I'm not sure that half of that volume being in a portable toilet qualifies, but whatdoiknow. Rules, rules, rules. WTH. Somebody call HDR.

EDIT: you sure are fast, Brian, lol.

They say minimum 10 gallon waste water tank.  Does not say it has to be a black water only tank. Most RVs I have seen have both a black and a grey water tank

 

[B and C]

b. Self-contained camping units must have a permanent affixed waste water holding tank of 10-gallon minimum capacity. BLM does not consider port-a-potty systems, systems that utilize portable holding tanks, or permanent holding tanks of less than 10-gallon capacity, to be self-contained.

 

[Qxxx]

That's the one bit my initial naive plan.

 

[bullfrog]

I really don't see the problem with being satisfied knowing you did your best to meet the spirit of the law, cheating by having a temporarily mounted piece of PVC pipe with an elbow on one end and a gate valve and RV dump hose connection on the other end coming out from underneath the trailer. You might even store a little something in there. Sometimes being one of the people that are supposed to check those things I can tell you I wouldn't enter inside but I might look if you let me, if I see a dump hose fitting on a trailer that is good enough for me. Funny story, I had a visitor that had fake full hook up utility water spout, dump, and electrical box that went around telling all the other campers that had been coming there for years that because we liked him so much we put them in just for him! Talk about a bunch of pissed off people complaining to the poor ranger about a misuse of their tax dollars!

 

[Qxxx]

...  spirit of the law.

So Frog, yer saying there are 2 types of people in the world. Those who follow the guidelines, and those who blow smoke and hope they get away with it for what .... the next 10 or 20 years? I imagine if a ranger wanted to, he or she could look under the rig to see if there is a permanent tank mounted, especially on an obvious D-I-Y rig.

But you give me an idea. I've not wanted to cut any holes at all in the metal of my (2016) van, but I could put in a fake tank underneath, and it could cover up the spot where the hole would be cut. Cool, I like it.

OTOH, I wonder if the rangers at the LTVAs are a bit more fastidious. I have really been wanting to stay at Midland LTVA, in preference to La Posa, as Q is such a zoo, but ..... (too bad I'm such a wimp when it comes to dealing with authority figures, people always "know when I'm lying". I just have the tell).
https://www.blm.gov/visit/midland-ltva
"Campers must be 100% self-contained for waste and gray water in order to utilize this area since vault toilets are not provided".

 

[Qxxx]

I should add that, it's my understanding that, if the rangers do discover yer violating the rules at the LTVAs, they can take away yer season pass, and bar you from the premises. Last winter, people at La Posa told me that others had been kicked out for various violations. Whatever.

FWIW, people in 2 big Class-As moved in 40' from me obviously trying to get me to move so they could take over my nice campsite, and the very next day the ranger paid me a visit to see if I were legal. Duh. And whereas there were thousands of other acres where they could have camped. A few days later I was returning from a hike, and they had parked their car so as to block my access road. I mentioned this to them, and the guy said "Great". And of course, both Class-As ran their generators every night, which they kept my side of their rigs. True story. So much for neighborly etiquette.

 

[bullfrog]

Just like there are all kinds of people there are all kinds of rangers. My rigs are usually far enough away nobody comes close but even when I camp closer in not many people want to camp close by for some reason, for instance in your example I would just move or raise a lot of dust making a new way into camp and hope those motor home people got their masks cause I would be in and out a lot and an open header exhaust a 6 AM makes one lonely after a couple of days! Really you just need to camp further out in more remote areas, life really is better there for now. I have lots of stories but get lots of pleasure out of being able as a ranger to occasionally right what I feel are social wrongs. Poor people should have a right to enjoy public lands as much as rich as long as everyone works to preserve them.

 

[crofter]

.... able as a ranger to occasionally right what I feel are social wrongs.  Poor people should have a right to enjoy public lands as much as rich as long as everyone works to preserve them.

Part of my duty was to preserve some big trees. The returning "good" campers (van or RV is lower impact) could count on getting that spot. -crofter

 

[Qxxx]

Really you just need to camp further out in more remote areas,

As indicated, that was at the La Posa LTVA, I was there for a month, and I needed to camp within 500' of a toilet. It's common at La Posa that the big rigs mob the spaces right around the toilets. That way they don't have to dump their ikky yukky black water tanks as often. 

FWIW, I had the "perfect" campsite. Nice view, no other neighbor within 50 yards, shade trees, plus it was backed up to an open area where no one behind could camp within a 1/4 mile. No way I was giving that spot up to a couple of Class-A hogs. Also, all of the other spots within 500' of the toilet were occupied by other "big" rigs who were spaced out but packed like dominoes, so there was no good place in that area to move to, in any case. Said hogs just figured they could run me out of the area. Fat chance.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe.../Gadsden_flag.svg/1200px-Gadsden_flag.svg.png

 

[maki2]

This Dometic toilet model # 711 (All In One) with tank as a part of the unit is not all that large. The tank is 9 gallons but if you also built in a small grey water tank under the sink, such as are used in food trucks, I can't image having an issue with the BLM inspector giving you approval to camp in LTVA areas. You would of course have to put in some type of drain connection in your rig to empty it. There are quite a few commercially made campervans that use this toilet in those bathrooms that are set up at the rear of the van.
https://www.dometic.com/en-ca/ca/pr...n/sanitation/boat-toilets/dometic-711-_-25364
It is not nearly as much work as hanging a tank under a van.

 

[crofter]

I should add that, it's my understanding that, if the rangers do discover yer violating the rules at the LTVAs, they can take away yer season pass, and bar you from the premises. Last winter, people at La Posa told me that others had been kicked out for various violations. Whatever.

FWIW, people in 2 big Class-As moved in 40' from me obviously trying to get me to move so they could take over my nice campsite, and the very next day the ranger paid me a visit to see if I were legal. Duh. And whereas there were thousands of other acres where they could have camped. A few days later I was returning from a hike, and they had parked their car so as to block my access road. I mentioned this to them, and the guy said "Great". And of course, both Class-As ran their generators every night, which they kept my side of their rigs. True story. So much for neighborly etiquette.

That was my experience in January at the LTVA also, very inconsiderate big rigs folks. And all night they were sending up burning paper bags. Ever been in a brush fire? Not fun. It was sure nice when they left.
-crofter

 

[Qxxx]

And all night they were sending up burning paper bags. 

Ha, I saw those same fire lanterns. Never did find Popeye's Point though.