Funds Before Vandwelling, or Vandwelling Before Funds [split]

[Suanne]

I would want a minimum of resources available to me before I hit the road, including an older but well-maintained vehicle, $2000 in savings for emergencies, and the ability to earn at least $500 worth of money and/or needed goods each month, on average. Those monthly earnings might include bartered goods or cash for labor (physical, clerical, computer), a retirement pension, social security, etc. I have many friends who do just this, mostly working seasonal jobs during the summer and snowbirding during the winter.

I think where some folks get bogged down is thinking that they have to have all of the resources they'll ever need while vandwelling, before they begin vandwelling. This is especially sad if someone is working a job they dislike in order to save enough money to vandwell. Instead, if someone vandwells while working, they can increase their savings account much faster than if they were trying to save while still living in a sticks-and-bricks (paying rent/mortgage and utilities).

It's a balancing act. You have to have a minimal amount to get started as a vandweller. But, once you have that minimal amount, then moving into a vehicle builds up funds much faster than staying in a sticks-and-bricks. Or, vandwelling could allow you to cut back your hours in a job that you disliked.

On a personal note, I'm the type of person who looks for jobs that I enjoy or find meaningful, paying or not. I've been fortunate that I've only had to work in jobs that I've disliked a couple of times ... not fun. My experience seems to be unusual in that regard.

"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life." Confucius

 

[Stephen]

I understand what Bob is saying. It isn't that people should run off half cocked and expect an easy time of it. Still, there are those who need to "hit the road" first or they will never go. A sheep isn't someone who happily goes to work everyday and pays his/her way in the world. A sheep is someone who lives like everyone else, buys what everyone else buys, lives and works just like everyone else and hates every minute of it.

For some, not all, thankfully, we need to throw ourselves under the bus in order to get started. Would we have had a much easier time if we had learned the trade or done the work? Yep. Would we ever leave the fold if something, either self imposed or not, didn't force us into doing what we always wanted to do? The answer is no, we wait until we are old or we never do it at all.

I don't think anyone can tell another what the best way is for them. We may have opinions and experience to lend, but the final decision lies within each of us. How we get to the land of non-consumerism and living closer to the land is a path we each have to walk our own way.

 

[ACagedTraveller]

The issue appears to involve the conservation of resources or the reduction of risk before the action. The proper method to determine the correct course of action involves the careful analysis of the costs and the potential sources of income.
I do not understand the desire to label the other party with the dehumanizing term "sheep." The term rejects the humanity of a person and the reduction of a person into the status as less than human leads into a very slippery slope. The equivalent term that some people might apply for people in the mobile community involves the term "leech" because the people do not pay the same cost for the amenities like roads or utilities that the full time residents pay in the community. The best method remains to not pontificate and to treat everybody with dignity and respect unless the person takes actions that dictate the mistreatment.

 

[ACagedTraveller]

^In addendum towards the above post.
I found a particular quote that states the point in an exquisite manner.
"Once you label me, you negate me" Søren Kierkegaard

 

[Gary68]

 

[IGBT]

I don't mind too much if someone wants to live free and be happy, as long as they don't require too much of my money to enjoy their lifestyle.

The money has to come from somewhere though and the easy way is just to raise taxes.   Property tax, sales tax, state income tax, federal income tax, excise tax, even social security is somewhat of a tax.

You do start feeling somewhat of a sheep while you are working 50 to 70 hours a week like we were and seeing 45% of your paycheck evaporate in taxes.   Your local city government tries to enact a school bond which would raise your property tax $1800 a year on your 35 year old house so they can build a new school and state of the art gym to replace the "aging" existing perfectly functioning school that is 10 years newer than your house.   Yeah, I totally felt like a sheep, which is why life on the road feels so free.  Now if I don't want to pay that school bond, I don't.   Don't want to pay 9.8% sales tax?  Drive to another state and camp there.

I think we all probably need to work in our life, but I think we are forced to work a lot longer than we would if everyone at least tried to participate.

 

[AltTransBikes]

My advice for dealing with poverty is don't listen to those who are collecting a pension and social security benefits when they tell you to live wild and be free. They will tell you what an awful existence they had all the while they are now benefiting from it.

You post an astute observation. Similarly I think, by extension of the same logic, are those equally sanctimonious who would preach how bad contemporary life is while enjoying all the benefits and conveniences it offers.

 

[akrvbob]

First, I get so tired of this nonsense that myself or this website promotes not working and going off half cocked. It's never happened and it will not happen. If you are going to claim it, go find the quotes and then bring them back or just keep quiet!!

I'm constantly talking about what kind of jobs nomads can get. It dominates the home page of this website!! There is a budget there and a list of suggestions on what work you can do. How much clearer can I make this to you people?? I've done multiple blog posts about jobs for nomads, multiple videos about jobs for vandwellers and it is a topic I teach at the RTR every year. I've ALWAYS worked as a vandweller and it's fully expected all vandwellers will have to work and will work unless they are older and retired. I have ALWAYS promoted an emergency fund! Every nomad should work until they have one unless it's just impossible.

If your gonna tell lies about me and my attitude about working, you better bring evidence from now on.

There's one big difference between us, you're older and you still think that if you devote your life to a corporation it will take care of you when you're older--after all, that's the way it worked for you. THAT"S GONE! Probably forever. Today the motto of the vast majority of corporations is to screw you deep and hard and then throw you away like the trash you are! Your advice is based on a world that no longer exists. My advice is to the real world of the USA in 2016 where a life devoted to work will get you NOTHING but used up, broken and thrown away.

What I hate and will fight against with my dying breath is the standard societal brainwashing attitude of work until you are 60-65 and then take your golden years. All along buying all the shit you can and an ever bigger house and more debt and the American Dream. I think that is horrible advice and a horrible way to live. If its what you choose for your life, that's up to you, but you can't come here and tell us that is the only right decision. You can say it's your decision on how to live your life and how well it worked for you, but you will not be allowed to tell us it's the only smart decision.

Did you hear me? You can't come here and tell us that is the only smart way to live and how wrong we are for not living that way. I believe that is the totally wrong way for all of us to live, but how you chose to live your life is none of my business. However, this website is dedicated to freedom and human dignity and as the owner of it I'm convinced your way of life is antithetical to freedom and human dignity and we will not promote it.

You're welcome to start your own website and promote the wonderful American Dream. I'm going to be very interested in seeing how many people come to it. It's becoming all too clear to the majority of Americans how morally bankrupt the American Dream is. That's why they are here.

They know the corporations exist only to use and abuse them so they have to take care of themselves and learning how to live cheap in a van is the single best hope they have for a future in an economy dedicated to screwing people.

I promise you this; I won't come to your website and tell you how wrong you are and how right I am. That is such a rude thing to do that I couldn't bring myself to do it.

So having typed all this out, do I delete it or post it? Normally I'd delete it, but I'm tired of being the nice guy and there needs to be a line drawn in the sand in this country and nice guys that refuse to do it are the source of the problem.

 

[gcal]

Bob, you produce the comments you have on this very thread and the one it was split from when a self-proclaimed disabled person with a junker van is advised by the "sheeple" to slow down and get the skills to keep his van running and feed himself. You call it "slavery" when the plain, honest truth is told that everyone has to pay their dues if they want to live whatever way they want to live. Then, when you are called on that, you post the sort of huffy reaction above. You are inconsistent. Whenever anyone advises caution and preparedness to someone, you start getting excited about freedom and independence and living your way - as if you can actually do that with no money. Then, when you are called on it, you start posting something like the above post. You can't have it both ways. If you want to be understood clearly, you can't post completely opposite things.

 

[Gary68]

ya know i'm going to say that for the most part me and bob agree,if you follow what is the modern american way you will end up working 60 hours a week and just getting the interest paid and enough food to do it all over next week

i know a whole lot of dead people who where model employees

anything even close to being a sheeple would never be on this site,what live in a rolling closet,crap in a bucket and mis dancing with the kardashians? you must be nuts

 

[jimindenver]

Not everyone that gets into the lifestyle does so by choice or gets the chance to prepare. Right now I am trying to prepare but at one time as a young man I had lost my job and ended up living out of a 66 Chevy 4 door until it got towed with all of my belongings. It sucked I wouldn't suggest it.

 

[DannyB1954]

Bob,
Most of us have some type of income because we earned it. We paid our dues. That includes you Bob. Advising young people to not do the same I think is a disservice to them. You refer to work as slavery, then say you encourage everyone to work. Work is not what causes slavery. Spending is what does that.

The quotes you give seem like a formula of how to stay a spoiled child that refuses to do anything they don't like. Don't prostitute yourself by working if you don't feel like it. Only do what you like. Be reckless when young so that you are used up, beat to heck by the time you are old. Really living is being poor, hungry, living in a shabby place with no property, as long as you get to only do as you please. Oh wow, what a great life.

Without the income that you earned by being a "prostitute" or "slave" would you have what you have now? I think philosophy has gotten the best of you. Thinking of how life should be instead of how it is. We all provide a service or product in exchange for financial compensation. So everyone that does a job that they wouldn't do as a hobby is a slave and prostitute. Maybe there is a reason it is called work and not play. Maybe a person who doesn't have many resources should be learning or working instead of playing. If others took all this advice would they have a pension or even social security when they are in their 60's? I think they will get to work until they drop dead.

Here is my take on the only two ways to get a good job. Know somebody, or know something. If a job pays well and is easy to learn, the person hiring will hire a friend or relative. If the job is difficult to learn, the person who hires will hire the person who knows how to do the job.

 

[speedhighway46]

Talking about religion, politics, and lifestyle choices is a good way to alienate friends and drive people away.

Don't try and change my opinion with your opinion . . .

Hey, let's talk about insulation!

 

[Canine]

Insulation?I'm all for it.UUUUMMMM that costs money too.

 

[BradKW]

So having typed all this out, do I delete it or post it? Normally I'd delete it, but I'm tired of being the nice guy and there needs to be a line drawn in the sand...

Problem with lines in sand is that you generally have to hop in the sandbox with everyone else drawing lines...thus the root of sandbox behavior  

 

[IGBT]

I think Bob is saying don't sell your soul to the corporations who will screw you in the end (cut your pension, change it to a 401k then drop the company match when the economy turns south while still paying millions in performance bonus to the CEO).  Most of us have to work for these entities but if we don't fall into the trap of thinking we need a 3000 sqft house, 2 cars, and a new Iphone every year, we might be able to sidestep working for them until we are dead.

There is a lot of truth in what he is saying.

 

[Queen]

We almost (thank god it was "almost") fell into the trap of buying another house as we move back to Illinois. We own the condo in FL outright and when it sells we'll have a nice chunk of change for a nest egg... but by NOT buying again, we are getting off the endless maintenance/upkeep/taxes merry-go-round and it is exciting!! By not living in fear we are taking charge and it is very freeing.

I found a income dependant 55+ place in our home town that is beautiful, it will become home base after we are finished with the current jobs, and it will allow us to live nicely with much less in rent and still allow us to roam as much of the year as we choose. Meets my wifes need for a home base and me need to roam. WIN!

But all of that is possible because we got off the hamster wheel of "more". Seems like if you want to be free you have to free yourself from "normal" american way of life.

 

[highdesertranger]

good one Speed. highdesertranger

 

[jimindenver]

My mother use to tell me youth is wasted on the young, my response was retirement is wasted on the old. When you can enjoy life you are slaving away to make it easier for a retirement that might not come. I myself am a perfect example as I have nearly worked myself into a wheelchair and could not enjoy much even were I to win the lottery.

I had a customer tell me that if it flies, floats or f...., rent it. I have to agree now that I am older. Cabins, boats and other things it is comforting to own but the expense and care are 12 months of the year for weeks worth of enjoyment. Even renting a RV as expensive as it is, it pales to making the monthly, paying for insurance, storage and upkeep all year.

 

[Txjaybird]

I live in "income based" housing in the "elderly/disabled" section.  I call it the "Old Bats and Old Farts " section    

In our lease under residents requirements there is a limitation on how long we cannot be in "residence" without notifying the landlord.  It's my understanding that if we are  away for extended lengths of time and depending on the circumstances we may be considered to have "abandoned" the unit and "appropriate" steps will be taken to re-tenant the apt.  I'm not aware of this happening however it's in the lease.

I'm just passing this info along in case it could be a issue in your relocation and travel plans.   I hope things go smoothly for you guys.  It's a shame about moving and buying a place and then being so sick there you have to move again.  I've relocated and made my "last move" 3 times between 2005 and 2010 & now preparing for another.

Good Luck,    Jewellann