Fridge / freezer what to buy

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MaximumRide

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Hey guys n gals, <br>I have a tonne of food allergies, so it is best if I make meals in bulk and freeze them. I want to have a big day where I cook bc I have to do EVERYTHING from scratch.<br><br>Sooo, living in a tiny home there is not room for much. So i'd like to scrap the bar fridge idea that i've currently got going at home.<br><br>I use about half of the bar fridge and the freezer is always over flowing. (freezer part is tiny in a bar fridge.)<br><br>So I was wondering, has any one seen anything that has 50% freezer and 50% fridge or just more freezer than fridge.<br><br>(having an extra freezer just isn't an option.)<br><br>Other ideas are welcome.<br><br>
 
What do you have currently?&nbsp; In my little cabin i had a compact fridge that had a separate freezer on top, it was not huge but much bigger than the little tray you get in most dorm style fridges.&nbsp; I could fit a thing of icecream, 2 big bag of chicken breast, some burritos. Or about 10 tv dinners.<br><br>
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<br><br>Anything bigger than that will be a fullsize apartment fridge or dedicated freezer.
 
Maybe buy *JUST* a freezer, and then use a cooler, and those blue things to keep your cooler cool?&nbsp; Since as you say most of your need is freezer use.&nbsp; You won't have the ice headache, and you will have all the freezer space you need, and can still keep things "cool" when you need fridge space in a cooler.<br><br>As for what to buy, there are several posts around the forum that talk about that.&nbsp; I think the general consensus is to buy a "Compressor Fridge" by "Danforth" or something like that. I could be wrong.&nbsp; I don't own a fridge or a freezer, so I can't really help, but I'm toying with the idea of getting one before summer hits full swing.<br><br>With Love,<br>Tara
 
Are you looking to power this fridge/freezer from battery power?<br><br>Refrigeration uses a lot of power, and fridges specifically designed for 12volt dc operation are the most efficient.<br><br>I do not know of any 12 volt compressor fridge manufacturers who &nbsp;split the freezer/fridge portions 50/50.<br><br>You could get a chest style fridge freezer and turn it all the way up to keep things frozen, and rotate some freezer gel packs into a cooler for your fridge.<br><br>YOu are looking at 375 to 600$ for such a freezer, and using about 25 to 45 amp hours per day of battery to freeze and keep things frozen.<br><br>Look into ARB, Waeco, National Luna, Norcold, Engel, Edgestar for these types of chest style fridge/freezers.<br><br>If you are looking for a front loading fridge: &nbsp;Vitrifrigo, NovaKool, Waeco, Norcold, Isotherm.<br><br>A group 27 battery measures ~12.5"x 6.75"x 8.5"tall weighs ~55 to 62 lbs and has a capacity of100 to 115 amp hours, so 1 to 2 days before the single healthy and fully charged battery needs recharging in this mainly freezer type usage, and 80 to 100 watts of solar in a sunny environment to break even for the ~ 2 cubic foot models. &nbsp;The bigger the fridge, the more it consumes. &nbsp;<br><br>There is the option of buying a residential style fridge/freezer and powering it with an inverter. &nbsp;This will likely use twice the battery power, and these fridges are not designed to handle vehicle vibrations long term, and the door needs to have some sort of latch installed to keep it closed during turns.<br><br>The Danfoss compressor employed in most fridges is much quieter and slightly more efficient than the Sawafuji powered compressors of Engel/Norcold. &nbsp;Edgestar employs a Chinese knockoff of a Danfoss compressor.<br><br>Battery powered refrigeration is not cheap or simple, unless you have a bunch of money to throw at it.<br><br><br>
 
&nbsp;I have a Waeco CF-50 cooler/freezer and left my camper in storage, during the summer in Osoyoos, for a month while I headed to the coast to get some parts for a blown rear end in my old truck. It was stuffed with meat that I'd frozen and there was 45 watts of solar on the roof. Got back and everything was frozen rock solid still, even with the solar panels all dusty. In Osoyoos it gets to 104+ F so that kinda gives you an idea about power draw. <br>&nbsp;Right now, I have that same CF-50 in my camper, full of frozen meat yet again, and it turns on maybe twice an hour for a few minutes. Draws basically 5 amps for that short period of time and a trickle of current the rest (for the electronics). ..Willy.&nbsp;
 
DazarGaidin said:
What do you have currently?
<br><br>I have a bar fridge with a teeny freezer compartment. it could fit say, 3 tubs of&nbsp; icecream and that's it.
 
Perhaps we use different nomenclature on this side of the equator.<br><br>Here, An inverter takes battery voltage 12vDC and turns it into mains 110/220 volt AC power.<br><br>A converter/charger takes 110/220 mains power and charges the 12v DC battery.<br><br>There are inverter chargers which can do both but from what I see these are $,$$$<br><br>The Waeco you posted a link to is a good unit. &nbsp;Some are capable of AC or DC operation, some DC only.<br><br>It's hard to have too much solar, easy to have too little. &nbsp;Most recommend at least 60 watts to power a small fridge. &nbsp;Since you will be freezing items often I recommended 80 watts as a minimum.
 
I'd say that the voltage would be different. I know that anything i bought over to the states could not be plugged into the power point with out an adapter.
 
Strange that they do not mention if it is a Danfoss Compressor in those Waeco units in Australia, instead calling it a Waeco compressor. Up here they still advertise Danfoss compressors, and I know in the past they advertised Danfoss compressors in Oz too<br><br>The picture they show of a Waeco compressor looks similar to a Danfoss. &nbsp;The electronic controller looks wider. &nbsp;I'd think it is a quality compressor<br>
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&nbsp;AFAIK, Waeco uses Danfoss compressors. The nice thing about Waeco, Engel, etc. is that they can generally run off 12-&gt;24v AND AC current. Hooking it up to straight DC (12/24v) is more efficient when off mains power, since you're not incurring conversion losses. As for solar, I feel that the amount needed has been overstated (for summer use), but more generally doesn't hurt since the stored power can be used for other things. ..Willy.
 
Willy, Danfoss has been bought out by Secop. &nbsp; I got a question out on the "waeco" compressor I showed in the pic above and hope to get an answer soon. &nbsp;The "waeco compressor" could be a Danfoss &nbsp;compressor with a Waeco sticker, or Danfoss' patent might have expired and now we are seeing clones, and they Do do things Differently in Australia, where the links lead to and where I believe it will be purchased.<br><br>My Fridge came with a DC only &nbsp;compressor controller, but many of the chest style fridges come with the AC/DC controllers. &nbsp;It was a hundred dollar option in my case and I passed.<br><br>That ready made battery box will work, but getting a large battery to power all auxiliary loads does not require something ready made like that.<br><br>A million different ways to do it, and while there are several poor ways of doing it, there is no one right way. &nbsp;Too many variables with the vehicle itself.<br><br><br>
 
&nbsp;AFAIK, waeco was bought by Dometic and it still uses the Danfoss compressor.. but that and a buck will buy you a cup of coffee. My Cf-50 is a 12/24v DC only model too. My setup consists of 2 battery banks, a 100AH deep cycle dedicated solely to the Waeco and 2x100AH deef cycles in parallel for everything else. I've just added a 120 W polycrystalline panel to my system and a dual battery charge controller. All that solar is mostly needed for winter, the 90W I previously had being enough for the Waeco and laptop/lights and whatever else. Actually, I kinda had too much power and would also charge my buddy's laptop during the summer.
 
&nbsp;I was surprised to see that Waeco.AU was saying they were using a Waeco compressor. I know in the past they proudly proclaimed to use a Danfoss compressor. &nbsp;The Waeco web sites in North America are still advertising Danfoss compressors. &nbsp;I was a little alarmed when my fridge arrived and the Compressor said SECOP on it, but for all intents and purposes it is the same thing, I hope anyway.<br><br>It is the knockoff Danfoss compressors, especially those employed by Edgestar, which have me suspicious. &nbsp;I watched a Edgestar Youtube video and the controller and compressor is so obviously just a copy with Chinese writing all over, and knowing the great outsourcing, maximum profit boom of the last few years I am suspicious of all manufacturer claims these days. &nbsp;The reviews of Edgestar on Amazon are mediocre at best.<br><br>I would trust the Waeco. &nbsp;I've read Waeco customer service in OZ is very good. &nbsp;Some US customers who couldn't get the time of day from the US retailers found the info and help they needed through the OZ distributor. &nbsp;Perhaps the OP in OZ could ask about the 'Waeco' compressor and see how different, if at all, it is from the Danfoss/Secop that has built a good reputation and pretty much revolutionized battery powered refrigeration.<br><br>The links the OP posted to the Waeco's were pretty pricey. &nbsp;Isn't the A$ stronger than the US$ these days?<br><br>My Previous fridge was a front loading 1.7 cubic foot Norcold de 0040 AC/DC. It would automatically and seamlessly choose AC whenever available and revert seamlessly to battery power when I pulled the AC power cord.(Danfoss compressors &nbsp;with AC/DC controllers apparently require a minute before resuming operation AC to DC and back). It lasted 5.5 years running 11 months a year. &nbsp;It was noisy and vibrated a lot. &nbsp;Its freezer section was very small and only things in direct contact with the cold plate(evaporator) would freeze. &nbsp;It would consume ~.8 to 1.3 Amp hours per hour to hold sub 40 interior temperatures. &nbsp;It had extra insulation installed, sat in an insulated cabinet designed for airflow over the compressor and condenser to maximize efficiency.<br><br>When it failed( due to low refrigerant, not rechargeable) &nbsp;I got a 1.8 cubic foot DC only Vitrifrigo c51is, also front loading. &nbsp;It also has extra insulation added and resides in an insulated cabinet designed to pull cold air from the floor and push it once only through the condenser and around the compressor and compressor controller for maximum heat removal, efficiency and mechanical longevity.&nbsp;<br>It is currently using ~.5 to 1.2 amp hours per hour to maintain sub 36f interior temperatures. &nbsp;Everything placed within the Small freezer compartment freezes rock solid. &nbsp;I have modified the cooling unit in terms of the 120mm condenser fan itself, its method of mounting, and how the air flow must pass over the compressor and controller before exiting the vehicle, or being diverted out of the cabinet to the van interior.<br>It is significantly quieter than the Norcold. &nbsp;It has an interior light. It is only .1 cubic foot bigger inside, but I can fit much more inside because the Norcold's compressor was mounted on an vertical corner &nbsp;whereas the Vitrifrigo mounts the compressor on top in the back.<br><br>I have added an 40 mm interior fan(5.3 to 6.4 CFM) to both fridges to circulate the air within. &nbsp;Makes fridge colder, freezer warmer, more even temps and a lower thermostat setting to hold sub 40f interior temps. It does not increase overall efficiency as it adds a slight amount of heat which then must be removed. It also helps remove heat from items placed within &nbsp;significantly faster, and allows me to use a solar surplus to save power overnight by cranking it up when I have extra and turning it back down near sundown. &nbsp;I have inadvertently turned my milk and Orange juice slushy 2 hours after turning the fridge to 3.5 out of 7 when 2 of 7 is my normal setting.<br><br>I could no doubt use my Vitrifrigo to freeze the whole interior. &nbsp;I have 2/3 of the dial range left to do so. &nbsp;Chest style fridge/freezers are more efficient due to the lid and seal, on top. &nbsp;The lid and seal are usually made better too, where as the front loading fridge will have a portion of air spill out each opening, and the bottom of the fridge itself has the seal and metal door frame to contend with, which absorbs heat from the exterior and transfers it within. &nbsp;The weight of the door also holds the seal better than a front loading fridge. &nbsp;It is easy to cram too much stuff into my front loader and get the door to lock, but the seal is not compressed fully. &nbsp;A chest style fridge would excel in this area.&nbsp;<br><br>The amount of electricity the fridge consumes is dependent on how much heat it is required to remove from items placed within. &nbsp;It is difficult to nail down an exact figure, and while some days mine might require as little as 12 amp hours per 24 hours, other days it can easily triple this amount if I am asking it to refreeze ice packs and replacing cold beer with warm and opening the door 5 times and hour. &nbsp;Perhaps 80 watts is more than necessary to just power the fridge as a freezer, but getting 80 watts now is ultimately cheaper than realizing 55 watts is not enough and adding to or replacing the panel with a larger then likely having to run thicker wiring and possibly buying a larger charge controller or running another one for the new panel. <br><br>&nbsp;For Vans, I'll always recommend the wattage be dictated by the amount one can actually shoehorn on the roof and not the least one can get by with, but this of course is an opinion. &nbsp;I am in a sunny environment, but my laptop usage could easily eat up 90 amp hours a day. &nbsp;My fridge uses about 1/4 of that maximum these days.<br><br>I also would recommend that the amount of solar be matched to the battery capacity. &nbsp;Feed a single 100 amp hour battery with a panel capable of at least 5 &nbsp;and up to 13 amps at noon. &nbsp;Of course any solar is better than no solar and will offset usage, but the 5 to 13% figure is a standard figure for off grid homes for maximum battery longevity. &nbsp;The maximum I have ever seen from my 130 watt panel is ~ 117 watts in ideal conditions with oversize wiring, so the panel ratings cannot be put to paper as gospel. &nbsp;Figure ~ 100 watts to get at least 5 amps charging current into the depleted battery, so in general 100 watts per 100 amp hour of battery is a good goal. <br><br>&nbsp;Lots of variables exist, aim high for the days when the variables are stacked against you. &nbsp;Since panel prices have dropped to just over a dollar a watt, stock up.<br><br>My electrical system now consists of 198 watts on my roof with a MPPT charge controller. &nbsp;I have a battery monitor which tracks and counts amps in and out of the batteries. &nbsp;I have 2 group 27 batteries rated at 115 A/h each as house/Aux/leisure batteries. &nbsp;They are isolated from the group 27 engine battery via a manual &nbsp;Boat type switch(Perko/Guest). &nbsp;I can choose to allow solar amps to charge all 3 batteries, or just the house batteries. &nbsp;I can choose whether to let the alternator charge just the engine, or all three, or just the house batteries(best).<br><br>My monitor also counts/monitors alternator amps, and this has has been informative, but there was bliss in ignorance. &nbsp;The Alternator on my vehicle, despite upgrades and oversized cabling, returns far less into the batteries than I imagined. &nbsp;There are limitations most are unaware of, and without an amp counter, you do not really know where the batteries are in terms of state of charge. &nbsp;For most if it still starts and powers things then they claim it is fully charged. &nbsp;Not making any accusations here, just saying Alternators are not a magical battery charger that work superfast and always top off a battery. &nbsp;They contribute. &nbsp;By all means utilize them but do not count on them to fully recharge to 100% unless you are driving for 8+ hours. &nbsp;It is vehicle dependent. &nbsp;Many variables exist. &nbsp;50% to 90% can be done in 3 to 4 hours of driving, best case(rare). &nbsp;Idling to recharge is &nbsp;slow, ineffective, a last resort, and wasteful.<br><br>Full recharges require many many hours of driving, or sufficient solar, or a charger/ converter powered by mains/grid or generator AC power, and whatever method, returning batteries to a true 100% state of charge, requires many many hours. Achieving 92 to 95% is usually adequate and can be accomplished in a few hours with a good sized solar array or converter charger. &nbsp;The alternator struggles &nbsp;and is very slow above 80%.<br><br>Returning batteries to 100% at least weekly if cycling them nightly should be a goal, if one wants the batteries to last a good long time and perform well until the end of their life.<br><br>Achieving 100% requires effort and time, and possibly great expense if stealth van dwelling. &nbsp;Batteries are basically rented, so it can be easier and ultimately cheaper to just treat them worse and replace them more often. &nbsp;Less stressful too. <br><br>If the &nbsp;aux/house/leisure batteries are to be secured inside the passenger compartment, then they should be vented to the exterior. &nbsp;AGM batteries will only offgass if overcharged and are much safer unvented in the passenger compartment, but cost twice as much. &nbsp;They can recharge faster too if the charging source is strong enough to feed them. &nbsp;Avoid GEL batteries in RV type usage. They are very finicky as to the charge profile and can be damaged instantly if it is exceeded. &nbsp;AGM are commonly referred to as gel cell, but are not Gel batteries.&nbsp;<br><br><br>MaximumRide, you basically know the freezer brand you want, and I think it is a good decision. If you get the large model, You should figure the maximum it will use in 24 hours would be 48 amp hours to keep everything frozen adding one more thing to freeze each day. &nbsp;Since you should aim to not drain a battery below 50% &nbsp;you would want at least a hundred amp hour &nbsp;deep cycle battery to power it for 24 hours. This is without sunlight recharging it during the day. &nbsp;Many variables exist.<br><br>Get as much solar as you can afford and which will mount nicely on your roof shooting for that 5-13% of battery capacity, or about 100 watts for 100 amp hours of battery capacity. Any solar is better than none, but do it right, once, and aim high.<br><br>You can get away with less certainly, especially if the fridge is the only significant battery &nbsp;draw, and you are driving a good distance regularly and plugging in occasionally.<br><br>What you should research is methods of battery isolation so the alternator charges the aux battery, and the aux battery can never drain the engine starting battery.<br>Research Charge controllers. &nbsp;PWM controllers are much less $$ than MPPT. &nbsp;Mppt can be upto 30% more efficient with very low battery voltages and low panel temperatures. &nbsp;Generally cheaper to get more wattage than factor in a MPPT charge controller.<br><br>All the cabling, between alternator and battery, between solar panel and charge controller, and controller and battery should be thicker than expected to minimize voltage drop. &nbsp;Copper is expensive, the battery lugs, fuses and circuit breakers all add up quickly, and are important for performance and safety. &nbsp;You want to keep the cables as short as possible, but they will still be long.<br><br>Mounting the solar panels on the roof to handle highway speeds and passing the cables through the roof is another thing to consider, and there are many different was of doing it.<br><br>Having a mains/grid powered converter/charger to top off the batteries when AC power is available is key. &nbsp;Shoot for at least 20 amps for each 100 amp hour of battery.<br>Once again you can get away with less, but more will not hurt and can be a blessing if you only have an hour or 2 to plug in.<br><br>I've rambled on about these topics I've researched in other threads on this and other forums if you want to search my posts. &nbsp;Not saying I know everything or my word is gospel, or my way is the only way, but I only write about topics I feel I have a good grasp on, and want to help others from making the mistakes I made in my first 11 years of Van dwelling.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
 
<span class="status_offline" title="Offline">thanks for that wrcsixeight, ill have to look it over a few times to take it all in.<br><br>(and yes, the aussie dollar is stronger at the moment.)<br></span>
 
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