Food on the Table, Gas in the Tank

[gcal]

I have seen a lot of starry eyed young dreamers here who seem to think they can just hit the road with nothing to offer but a hopeful expression and life will work out their way. I haven't actually seen it work out successfully for many of  them. But I have seen people who took the time to learn a skill do very well. I have seen RV'ers who do make a successful life for themselves getting money doing electrical work, cabinet work, tailoring, upholstery, mechanical repairs, taxes, craftwork, dog grooming, hair cutting, and getting a CDL for the higher paying seasonal harvest work. The time they spend learning those skills pays off by allowing them to live the kind of lives that they want. The ones seem to expect manna to drop from heaven with no effort from themselves seldom do well.

 

[buckwilk]

In six months traveling the western states this past summer I met quite a few young people who did exactly that. I met them on BLM land, dispersed camping in Nf and more than one parking lot. I climb, skydive, river raft, hike, backpack and enjoy all types of musical concerts so I run into that age group often. Some of these folks have been on the road for years, picking up seasonal jobs, housesitting etc. I met one young lady in Arches N.P. who financed her sojourn by videoing families for a day and giving them the video, for a fee of course. She told me she was often broke but had managed to travel this way for two years. They're out there and having the time of their lives.

 

[akrvbob]

I have seen a lot of starry eyed young dreamers here who seem to think they can just hit the road with nothing to offer but a hopeful expression and life will work out their way. I haven't actually seen it work out successfully for many of  them.

My experience has been very different than yours, we must meet a different group of people.

My father set the perfect example for me. He worked hard at a job that ate him up all his life. The only time i saw him happy was on his too infrequent vacations and one time he was off work for 3 moths after an injury. He became a different man who smiled and laughed and played with his grandkids. I liked that man a whole lot more than other.

He retired at 60 with all the money he could ever need! Life was going to be great!! Discovered cancer at 61 and was dead by 62.

That was a father who taught me how to live. I'm so sorry he made so many bad choices in his life, but at least he showed me not to make them myself.

For every person who tries too soon to hit the road, I've met dozens who deeply regret waiting so long.

Sadly, I've even met more who finally hit the road and then were sick or dead all too soon. 

The clock is ticking on your life and any one of them could be the LAST one. It pays to pay close attention to every one and treat it likes its precious and may be the last one.

You can ALWAYS make more money, you can NEVER make more time.
Bob

 

[GotSmart]

I have seen a lot of starry eyed young dreamers here who seem to think they can just hit the road with nothing to offer but a hopeful expression and life will work out their way. I haven't actually seen it work out successfully for many of  them. But I have seen people who took the time to learn a skill do very well. I have seen RV'ers who do make a successful life for themselves getting money doing electrical work, cabinet work, tailoring, upholstery, mechanical repairs, taxes, craftwork, dog grooming, hair cutting, and getting a CDL for the higher paying seasonal harvest work. The time they spend learning those skills pays off by allowing them to live the kind of lives that they want. The ones seem to expect manna to drop from heaven with no effort from themselves seldom do well.

 Arthur O'Shaughnessy

We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers
And sitting by desolate streams;—
World-losers and world-forsakers,
On whom the pale moon gleams:
Yet we are the movers and shakers
Of the world for ever, it seems.

With wonderful deathless ditties,
we build up the world's great cities.
And out of a fabulous story,
we fashion an empire's glory.
One man, with a dream, at pleasure
shall go forth and conquer a crown.
And three, with a new song's measure
can trample an empire down.

We, in the ages lying,
in the buried past of the Earth,
built Nineveh with our sighing
and Babel itself with our mirth.
And o'erthrew them with prophesying
to the old of the New World's worth.
For each age is a dream that is dying,
or one that is coming to birth.

The world would be a bland place without the dreamers. 

 

[gcal]

 Arthur O'Shaughnessy

We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers
And sitting by desolate streams;—
World-losers and world-forsakers,
On whom the pale moon gleams:
Yet we are the movers and shakers
Of the world for ever, it seems.

With wonderful deathless ditties,
we build up the world's great cities.
And out of a fabulous story,
we fashion an empire's glory.
One man, with a dream, at pleasure
shall go forth and conquer a crown.
And three, with a new song's measure
can trample an empire down.

We, in the ages lying,
in the buried past of the Earth,
built Nineveh with our sighing
and Babel itself with our mirth.
And o'erthrew them with prophesying
to the old of the New World's worth.
For each age is a dream that is dying,
or one that is coming to birth.

The world would be a bland place without the dreamers. 

Boy are you ever barking up the wrong tree.

 

[SoulRaven]

While some people who learn a skill will do well for themselves, one of the most important skills is often overlooked. The skill of knowing how to make money, or get a job.

While you MIGHT be able to find a job within your given skill set, the skill of finding a job or making money could still be your salvation when times get rough.

People seem to be quick to say "Money can't buy happiness...", but money can buy you food, gas in your tank, a roof over your head, and heat to keep you warm. All of these sound like great first steps on that road to happiness to me.

 

[TMG51]

I know a guy who travels and one of the few possessions he keeps with him is a Gumby costume. When he runs out of gas money from odd-jobs, he dances in the Gumby costume for money while parked at the pump. That way people know he isn't lying. He says it works every time.

I also know a girl who makes money by picking up roadkill, skinning it, tanning its hide with its own brains, then selling purses and etc.

 

[gcal]

My experience has been very different than yours, we must meet a different group of people.

My father set the perfect example for me. He worked hard at a job that ate him up all his life. The only time i saw him happy was on his too infrequent vacations and one time he was off work for 3 moths after an injury. He became a different man who smiled and laughed and played with his grandkids. I liked that man a whole lot more than other.

He retired at 60 with all the money he could ever need! Life was going to be great!! Discovered cancer at 61 and was dead by 62.

That was a father who taught me how to live. I'm so sorry he made so many bad choices in his life, but at least he showed me not to make them myself.

For every person who tries too soon to hit the road, I've met dozens who deeply regret waiting so long.

Sadly, I've even met more who finally hit the road and then were sick or dead all too soon. 

The clock is ticking on your life and any one of them could be the LAST one. It pays to pay close attention to every one and treat it likes its precious and may be the last one.

You can ALWAYS make more money, you can NEVER make more tim

Bob, it is a fact that some people wait and plan and then run out of time. Life isn't fair and it can be rotten. But that does not mean that it's a great idea for someone with no money, no experience at feeding himself or herself, no skills, and no idea of getting any, to buy an old van and take off. That is not going to end well. Heading off without some money, planning and marketable skills is likely to turn what should be a joyous experience into a miserable endurance test, and maybe a squalid failure. People who haven't shown some get-up-and-go in coping with life are not going to be able to get up and go and make a new life.

I think we probably do meet a different group of people. But I would like to point out that you, yourself, did not take to the road without some experience in making a living and the skills to do so. You, yourself, had computer, internet and writing skills that allowed you to start a successful blog and website and keep some $$$ coming in. You had the skills to keep your vehicle running and you could get work when you needed it.

 

[GotSmart]

Bob, it is a fact that some people wait and plan and then run out of time. Life isn't fair and it can be rotten. But that does not mean that it's a great idea for someone with no money, no experience at feeding himself or herself, no skills, and no idea of getting any, to buy an old van and take off. That is not going to end well. Heading off without some money, planning and marketable skills is likely to turn what should be a joyous experience into a miserable endurance test, and maybe a squalid failure. People who haven't shown some get-up-and-go in coping with life are not going to be able to get up and go and make a new life.

Some people only learn the hard way.  

Some get lucky and find gold.  

Some become examples to others.  

You can only be responsible to yourself.  

If there were no dreamers, we all would be still stuck in caves eating roots and berries.   Instead we are living in vans communicating with people thousands of miles apart.

On my first road trip I went from The Napa Valley to OMAHA at 18.  Talk about a learning experience!

 

[gcal]

Some people only learn the hard way.  

Some get lucky and find gold.  

Some become examples to others.  

You can only be responsible to yourself.  

If there were no dreamers, we all would be still stuck in caves eating roots and berries.   Instead we are living in vans communicating with people thousands of miles apart.

On my first road trip I went from The Napa Valley to OMAHA at 18.  Talk about a learning experience!

We have different definitions of dreamers. Maybe I should have used a different word. I was talking Walter Mitty, you are talking Steve Jobs. The difference betwen them has to do whether or not they just daydream or can be effective in the real world. Personally, I don't think it's healthy to encourage the Walter Mitty's to live in their delusions.

BTW, I don't think it was a dreamer who domesticated the first plants and created a whole new method of getting food. I think it was some exhausted, pregnant cavewoman who was tired of plodding out with the kids to forage, who had noticed that grains that had been dropped grew where it was dropped, and decided to drop more grain close to the cave.

 

[buckwilk]

I see both sides of this discussion can agree with some of what each side believes. I ran away from home when I was 14 in Alaska. I found a job with room and board in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, Canada. I would never advise a kid that age to do what I did. I had to and it worked. A young person takes off in a beater van with little or no money and falls on his face, van blows up, he runs out of money, so what? His life at an end, he crawls into a ditch and pulls mother earth over him. Not likely. Alternate plan , starts saving, planning, building on a dream. Meets a darling young lady, they pool their cash and hit the road. Meanwhile back at the ditch, darling young lady sees guy and says, " Hey, the restaurant where I work could use a busboy and you can sleep in my spare room until you get back on your feet." They fix up her van and after a few months hit the road. Everybody happy.

 

[GotSmart]

We have different definitions of dreamers. Maybe I should have used a different word. I was talking Walter Mitty, you are talking Steve Jobs. The difference betwen them has to do whether or not they just daydream or can be effective in the real world. Personally, I don't think it's healthy to encourage the Walter Mitty's to live in their delusions.

BTW, I don't think it was a dreamer who domesticated the first plants and created a whole new method of getting food. I think it was some exhausted, pregnant cavewoman who was tired of plodding out with the kids to forage, who had noticed that grains that had been dropped grew where it was dropped, and decided to drop more grain close to the cave.

Both Mitty and Jobs were obsessed people.  How about Tesla?  Extremely obsessed, and did not care about the commercialization of his inventions. 

Dare to dream, I had to set mine aside for many years.  Now I have it back for the near future, then I have my memories. (and pictures) It is the Mittys that lead to the breakthroughs that Jobs took and ran with.

 

[gcal]

Both Mitty and Jobs were obsessed people.  How about Tesla?  Extremely obsessed, and did not care about the commercialization of his inventions. 

Dare to dream, I had to set mine aside for many years.  Now I have it back for the near future, then I have my memories. (and pictures) It is the Mittys that lead to the breakthroughs that Jobs took and ran with.

Tesla was obssessed with knowledge. He diid not just randomly daydream. He focused and acted.

You are confused as to who Thurber's Mitty was. The movies did not stay true to the author.

 

[GotSmart]

Tesla was obssessed with knowledge. He diid not just randomly daydream. He focused and acted.

You are confused as to who Thurber's Mitty was. The movies did not stay true to the author.

Mitty was obsessed with the possible or alternate lives he could have been living.  In reality, a person can grab the life they want, and work for it.  My father was a farm boy watching airplanes`while driving the mule wagon.  He joined the Air Corps and lived his dream.  

The difference is the ability to focus, or in the extreme cases, obsess.  What is the difference?  Usually a hard lesson that strikes home. There is a fine line.

 

[akrvbob]

But that does not mean that it's a great idea for someone with no money, no experience at feeding himself or herself, no skills, and no idea of getting any, to buy an old van and take off. That is not going to end well. 

I think your picking out an extreme example and lumping many people under it. I personally don't know anybody who fits this extreme description and became a vandweller. 

I don't believe I know anybody who has "no experience feeding themselves" except kids still at home. There probably some out there but why are you starting a thread about a tiny, infinitesimally small group of people? I've certainly never offered them any advice to just buy a van and head out.

Go to the home page of this website and see my advice on how to start off; 1) keep working at the job you're at 2) buy a van 3) move out of your apartment into the van, 4) pay yourself the rent for a year into savings 5) after a year you should have at least $6000 cash. Finally take off and travel and when you start to run low stop and work again, or, get jobs along the way.

If you think that's a bad idea, we can talk about it. But this mythical person who can't feed himself but I think should buy a van and head out, I can't talk to you about that. I don't know that person and if I did I've never offered him any advice except get a job.

What I'm hearing (and I can be wrong) is you think my suggestion is wrong and the best way is the traditional schooling > career > retirement of the American dream. I fully respect your belief, but I reject it for myself and it isn't what I recommend others do. Yes, I did follow it for myself until I was in my 40s and I deeply regret it. If I could do it over again, I wouldn't do any of it. 

Where we would agree, is that if at all possible people should get a marketable skill while they are young. I totally agree. But the truth is most people aren't going to do it and you and me telling them to isn't going to make it happen. America isn't set up to get people marketable skills, its set up for college and the simple fact is a large percentage of people are not suitable for college, those are the young people who come to my website and seek my advice.

Nobody gets my advice who hasn't already got a hunger to reject mainstream America. I don't stand on street corners and preach against the American Dream! People come here because they want an alternative and I offer it to them. Anyone who comes here it's either because of

1) A mistake and they soon leave
2) The American Dream has failed them
3) Or some part of them is unhappy with the standard way of living and they want to change.

I  just find it confusing that a website about rejecting the mainstream has so many people who defend the mainstream and want me to change my basic message. 

There are lots of people who love the mainstream and there are lots of websites out there for those people. More power to them, I wish them all the best!! This just isn't one of them and it is not going to be one of them. This is a website about rejecting Standard Operating Procedures and going a different way. This is about the path less followed and the sound of a different drummer.

Let me emphasize that this is a philosophical difference of opinion and not in any way a personal difference. I only wish you the very best and that the path you chose leads you to exactly what you want out of life.

Okay, rant over!! Maybe I should start preaching on street corners! 
Bob

 

[Gary68]

and here i was thinking it was about avoiding homelessness in this era of crazy high rent

 

[gcal]

I think your picking out an extreme example and lumping many people under it. I personally don't know anybody who fits this extreme description and became a vandweller. 

I don't believe I know anybody who has "no experience feeding themselves" except kids still at home. There probably some out there but why are you starting a thread about a tiny, infinitesimally small group of people? I've certainly never offered them any advice to just buy a van and head out.

Go to the home page of this website and see my advice on how to start off; 1) keep working at the job you're at 2) buy a van 3) move out of your apartment into the van, 4) pay yourself the rent for a year into savings 5) after a year you should have at least $6000 cash. Finally take off and travel and when you start to run low stop and work again, or, get jobs along the way.

If you think that's a bad idea, we can talk about it. But this mythical person who can't feed himself but I think should buy a van and head out, I can't talk to you about that. I don't know that person and if I did I've never offered him any advice except get a job.

What I'm hearing (and I can be wrong) is you think my suggestion is wrong and the best way is the traditional schooling > career > retirement of the American dream. I fully respect your belief, but I reject it for myself and it isn't what I recommend others do. Yes, I did follow it for myself until I was in my 40s and I deeply regret it. If I could do it over again, I wouldn't do any of it. 

Where we would agree, is that if at all possible people should get a marketable skill while they are young. I totally agree. But the truth is most people aren't going to do it and you and me telling them to isn't going to make it happen. America isn't set up to get people marketable skills, its set up for college and the simple fact is a large percentage of people are not suitable for college, those are the young people who come to my website and seek my advice.

Nobody gets my advice who hasn't already got a hunger to reject mainstream America. I don't stand on street corners and preach against the American Dream! People come here because they want an alternative and I offer it to them. Anyone who comes here it's either because of

1) A mistake and they soon leave
2) The American Dream has failed them
3) Or some part of them is unhappy with the standard way of living and they want to change.

I  just find it confusing that a website about rejecting the mainstream has so many people who defend the mainstream and want me to change my basic message. 

There are lots of people who love the mainstream and there are lots of websites out there for those people. More power to them, I wish them all the best!! This just isn't one of them and it is not going to be one of them. This is a website about rejecting Standard Operating Procedures and going a different way. This is about the path less followed and the sound of a different drummer.

Let me emphasize that this is a philosophical difference of opinion and not in any way a personal difference. I only wish you the very best and that the path you chose leads you to exactly what you want out of life.

Okay, rant over!! Maybe I should start preaching on street corners! 
Bob

Yes, you are misunderstanding what I am saying. No, I have no problem with your advice about preparation in your blog. However, people who come here are too often encouraged to ignore it. I live this lifestyle and enjoy most of it. My tin can on wheels is bigger than a van, but it's the same life. Just a matter of degree. 

It can be tough on the road in any number of ways, and one has to manage on ones own without the support of friends and family and familiar surroundings. People who are prepared for this lifestyle as a choice and who are making a well thoughtout decision to move towards it will get great satisfaction. BUT, people who are not prepared and who are just trying to run away from the norm because, bluntly, they can't pull themselves together enough to function in it, will just find a new source of frustration and misery. I have seen the latter type of person come here and be encouraged to jump in a van or a camper and run away, way too often.

And no, while kids fresh out of school are certainly among those who have no experience feeding themselves, not all of them are in that category. I know high school kids who have held jobs, longterm, and who have saved money and gained marketable skills doing it. On the other hand, I know adults who can't hold a job for more than a week and who have no idea how to present themselves to even get one. A few have never had a job. I have seen people in all sorts of states of disfunction and unpreparedness told to leave their support system and jump right in, because the water would be just fine. Not by all, but by some, and those who point out the difficulties are often mocked. I dont understand how anyone with a conscience could do that.

 

[Cheli]

For every person who tries too soon to hit the road, I've met dozens who deeply regret waiting so long.

I have been feeling so drawn to this lifestyle over the last year or two and I am now determined to do what I have to in order to make it happen, exactly for this reason.  Thank you for pointing this out.

 

[gcal]

Mitty was obsessed with the possible or alternate lives he could have been living.  In reality, a person can grab the life they want, and work for it.  My father was a farm boy watching airplanes`while driving the mule wagon.  He joined the Air Corps and lived his dream.  

The difference is the ability to focus, or in the extreme cases, obsess.  What is the difference?  Usually a hard lesson that strikes home. There is a fine line.

The difference between your father and Thurber's Mitty is that your father focused on the possible and acted to attain it. Have you ever read the original Thurber story? He was a man who daydreamed about the impossible and let his rambling daydreams eat his life.

 

[mayble]

Life isn't fair and it can be rotten. But that does not mean that it's a great idea for someone with no money, no experience at feeding himself or herself, no skills, and no idea of getting any, to buy an old van and take off.

If a person has no money, no experience at feeding himself, no skills, etc - how are they any better off staying in place than they are on the road?
I'm not arguing - I'm interested in your take on the unique challenges of mobile life vs stationary life.  I would think a person with no skills and no money is screwed no matter what.