JIM PETERSON
Member
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2017
- Messages
- 22
- Reaction score
- 1
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I know this is a bit long; hoping you'll read it anyway. It is a response to something STEVE posted a while back but my response was far too long for a "comment" and so I've been sitting on it for a while
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Steve wrote:
"But as far as me personally, if I had $650 left over after paying all my bills and was debt free I would be on the road right now and would live pretty well indeed. But unfortunately $650 is what I have BEFORE my bills would be paid and even with extreme frugality that would not be possible I don’t think for anyone to make it in the nomadic van lifestyle. Please prove me wrong on that."
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I see comments like this from time to time and occasionally I feel motivated to respond. But, invariably, my responses are too long for the typical comment format. Here is what I would say to Steve and anyone in a similar situation:
==========
I don't know what your bills consist of but *anyone* can become debt free overnight. It does require giving up your lifetime of indoctrination about what is moral, responsible, ethical, etc. But I'm still searching for the tombstone which brags, "He paid his bills on time." Because once you're gone, what will it matter if you did or you didn't? Who will care? When I finally got around to filing for my bankruptcy the relief was so immediate and so profound my only question was, "Why didn't I do this five years ago before it cost me a marriage and my business?" My monthly payments went down $1,250 -- no more phone calls from bill collectors -- no more sleepless nights, etc. But there's an even easier way -- just quit paying shistuff you no longer want to pay and disappear -- fall through the grid (aka "opting OUT"). I accidentally learned a neat trick for giving collector goons the slip = get a private mail box (not one at the post office) for a month and have all your mail forwarded from your last mailing address to that box. Then simply quit paying the rent on your mail box. These types of businesses are actually prohibited by law from forwarding your mail to anyone else (only the post office can legally do that). So -- typically -- they hold your mail for two weeks and then it (along with any future mail) is returned to sender -- no forwarding address -- end of problem. I lived this way for two years once -- no junk mail; no mail at all = blissful, wonderful, priceless, liberating. Who needs snail mail in this day and age anyway? I had no physical address either and there is always a way around this ridiculous requirement as well. For many years I used an old address where I had once lived in my truck camper in the driveway for a while but the landlord's house had since been torn down. One day I drove by and even the mailbox was gone. I still used the address anyway -- it was my 'official' physical address *and* it gave the goons something to type into the box on their stupid form. Clearly, the onus is then on you to stay on top of your vehicle registrations, insurance, etc. -- because you won't get any reminders -- yet another reason to *not* even have a vehicle for those on an extreme budget. It's also good to stay in contact with a family member or two -- make sure they have a good email address for you in case some family "emergency" pops up. If you have a paid-for smart phone, you can still use it for Email and dinking around online wherever there is free WiFi with no contract or monthly bill whatsoever = FREE. And you can use Skype to communicate with friends and family = also FREE.
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There are people living this life already on $600 a month -- some do it for closer to $300 a month -- but these extreme frugalists sit still all winter long (and all summer long) and never turn a wheel. When you don't have to buy fuel and pay for vehicle maintenance and repairs, that leaves more money for other things -- like food. You'll want to be close enough to a store to walk or ride a bike for your groceries but there are plenty of places in the western U.S. like that. (Or perhaps fall in with a group further out where someone in the group can give you a ride to town every week or so.) Here at The Slabs, the town of Niland is only four miles away. Many people walk it and those of us with vehicles give them rides all the time. One winter destination which Bob and many of us use is Ehrenberg, AZ. You can even camp on the AZ side (many more places to camp than on the CA side of the Colorado river) and walk or pedal to Blythe, CA for cheaper prices on food. If you're not paying rent and your utility costs are minimal, there is no cheaper way to live anywhere. Larger towns also have food banks once you get your thinking straightened out and quit tripping over your foolish pride. Any country which can afford to spend $600 billion (yes, that's with a B) a year on death and destruction (aka the U.S. military) can *easily* afford to have millions of us out here living below the radar. To the extent we don't require conventional jobs and are a minimal burden on the infrastructure wherever we might be, you can easily know you're doing the rest of the country and the economy a solid favor. With your MUCH smaller carbon footprint -- especially if you have no vehicle -- you'll be doing the planet a huge favor as well.
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During the summer months, you'll want to travel a short distance (say 250 miles or so) to a summer camp at higher elevation where it's much cooler -- again someplace within walking or pedaling distance to a grocery store. We're coming up on 17 months of living in our fifth wheel trailer fulltime and in all that time we've only spent $150 for a place to be -- every dollar of it discretionary -- $70 of it was our Christmas gift to each other to spend a week at Fountain of Youth RV Resort on a special promo offer for folks who had never been there before. We also drove 22,000 miles our first year -- absolutely *NOT* recommended for anyone like us on a budget! We learned the magic money card can be maxed out! OTOH, it's quite easy to live within your means if you're not driving around in circles all the time. There is one couple who alternate between a winter LTVA and a summer LTVA (higher altitude; eastern Sierras). They drive their motorhome a short distance to town every week or two as needed and put $20 worth of gas in the tank each trip. By the time winter is over, their tank is full and they have enough fuel to drive up to their summer camp = same thing there = accumulating fuel over the season to drive back down to their winter camp. They had their LTVA fees = approx. $30 a month in the winter -- maybe closer to $60 a month in the summer but these almost always include a place to dump your tanks and FREE water so it all kinda' works out even though that minimal fee (or budget item) is one we've avoided completely thus far. Depending on your location, you can (as we currently do) discharge your graywater into the adjacent vegetation and dump your toilet into a gopher hole (hand dug or otherwise). This saves the expense and hassle of having to move your rig to dump your tanks. A porta-potti is an even easier solution to the blackwater problem as it can be carried off to dump somewhere (just after sunset is my favorite time to do this = fewer witnesses) or emptied down any conventional public toilet or pit toilet. The options out here are endless and limited only by your imagination. The only big question is IF you are able to disconnect yourself from a lifetime of programming and supporting the dominant paradigm where the rich get richer and the rest of us are permitted to suck air. Free your mind and your butt will follow For someone on an extremely low budget, I don't believe that a vehicle (at least not one which runs) is necessary as long as it has a towbar. In these areas and fluid communities we now call home, you can always ask around and find someone willing to tow you just about anywhere for the cost of fuel and a few extra bucks or a six pack of cold beer. If I had to really keep it to the bone, I'd just have a simple and cheap bumper pull trailer of some kind and make friends with someone who can tow it back and forth between my various happy hunting grounds. Our neighbor Jerry across the street here at The Slabs bought a gutted (non-running) motorhome on round and rolling tires for $85. He and his wife built on a large front porch and enclosed it with shade cloth (cooler and keeps out what few bugs we have around here). Now they have a place to BE all winter long for FREE. (They are 'snowbirds' like us though not retired yet as we are -- he does asphalt work in South Dakota where they have a paid-for house until it gets too cold and they shut the hot plants down. Then they come down here and dink around for the winter months.) These options exist. The real question is, "Can you ratchet down your expectations enough to be comfortable and happy living this way?" There is no judgment if you can't but at least you should know the REAL reason WHY you're not living this way already if it's something you think you want to try. Don't blame circumstances beyond your control if you're not willing to change those few things which ARE within your control. I give this lifestyle two enthusiastic thumbs UP and my highest recommendation. I've never felt more FREE or had less stress in my 63 years. Lean into something a little outside your comfort zone and you will surprise yourself with how absolutely low cost and FREE your life can be My standard advice to everyone is, "Go cheap; go small; go NOW!" Tomorrow is not guaranteed to any of us. LIVE while you can -- one day it will be too late -- and all your excuses and wringing of hands will be for naught. Better to try and have it not work out for some reason (which is how we all learn) than to never have tried at all.
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sail4free
==========
I know this is a bit long; hoping you'll read it anyway. It is a response to something STEVE posted a while back but my response was far too long for a "comment" and so I've been sitting on it for a while
==========
Steve wrote:
"But as far as me personally, if I had $650 left over after paying all my bills and was debt free I would be on the road right now and would live pretty well indeed. But unfortunately $650 is what I have BEFORE my bills would be paid and even with extreme frugality that would not be possible I don’t think for anyone to make it in the nomadic van lifestyle. Please prove me wrong on that."
==========
I see comments like this from time to time and occasionally I feel motivated to respond. But, invariably, my responses are too long for the typical comment format. Here is what I would say to Steve and anyone in a similar situation:
==========
I don't know what your bills consist of but *anyone* can become debt free overnight. It does require giving up your lifetime of indoctrination about what is moral, responsible, ethical, etc. But I'm still searching for the tombstone which brags, "He paid his bills on time." Because once you're gone, what will it matter if you did or you didn't? Who will care? When I finally got around to filing for my bankruptcy the relief was so immediate and so profound my only question was, "Why didn't I do this five years ago before it cost me a marriage and my business?" My monthly payments went down $1,250 -- no more phone calls from bill collectors -- no more sleepless nights, etc. But there's an even easier way -- just quit paying shistuff you no longer want to pay and disappear -- fall through the grid (aka "opting OUT"). I accidentally learned a neat trick for giving collector goons the slip = get a private mail box (not one at the post office) for a month and have all your mail forwarded from your last mailing address to that box. Then simply quit paying the rent on your mail box. These types of businesses are actually prohibited by law from forwarding your mail to anyone else (only the post office can legally do that). So -- typically -- they hold your mail for two weeks and then it (along with any future mail) is returned to sender -- no forwarding address -- end of problem. I lived this way for two years once -- no junk mail; no mail at all = blissful, wonderful, priceless, liberating. Who needs snail mail in this day and age anyway? I had no physical address either and there is always a way around this ridiculous requirement as well. For many years I used an old address where I had once lived in my truck camper in the driveway for a while but the landlord's house had since been torn down. One day I drove by and even the mailbox was gone. I still used the address anyway -- it was my 'official' physical address *and* it gave the goons something to type into the box on their stupid form. Clearly, the onus is then on you to stay on top of your vehicle registrations, insurance, etc. -- because you won't get any reminders -- yet another reason to *not* even have a vehicle for those on an extreme budget. It's also good to stay in contact with a family member or two -- make sure they have a good email address for you in case some family "emergency" pops up. If you have a paid-for smart phone, you can still use it for Email and dinking around online wherever there is free WiFi with no contract or monthly bill whatsoever = FREE. And you can use Skype to communicate with friends and family = also FREE.
==========
There are people living this life already on $600 a month -- some do it for closer to $300 a month -- but these extreme frugalists sit still all winter long (and all summer long) and never turn a wheel. When you don't have to buy fuel and pay for vehicle maintenance and repairs, that leaves more money for other things -- like food. You'll want to be close enough to a store to walk or ride a bike for your groceries but there are plenty of places in the western U.S. like that. (Or perhaps fall in with a group further out where someone in the group can give you a ride to town every week or so.) Here at The Slabs, the town of Niland is only four miles away. Many people walk it and those of us with vehicles give them rides all the time. One winter destination which Bob and many of us use is Ehrenberg, AZ. You can even camp on the AZ side (many more places to camp than on the CA side of the Colorado river) and walk or pedal to Blythe, CA for cheaper prices on food. If you're not paying rent and your utility costs are minimal, there is no cheaper way to live anywhere. Larger towns also have food banks once you get your thinking straightened out and quit tripping over your foolish pride. Any country which can afford to spend $600 billion (yes, that's with a B) a year on death and destruction (aka the U.S. military) can *easily* afford to have millions of us out here living below the radar. To the extent we don't require conventional jobs and are a minimal burden on the infrastructure wherever we might be, you can easily know you're doing the rest of the country and the economy a solid favor. With your MUCH smaller carbon footprint -- especially if you have no vehicle -- you'll be doing the planet a huge favor as well.
==========
During the summer months, you'll want to travel a short distance (say 250 miles or so) to a summer camp at higher elevation where it's much cooler -- again someplace within walking or pedaling distance to a grocery store. We're coming up on 17 months of living in our fifth wheel trailer fulltime and in all that time we've only spent $150 for a place to be -- every dollar of it discretionary -- $70 of it was our Christmas gift to each other to spend a week at Fountain of Youth RV Resort on a special promo offer for folks who had never been there before. We also drove 22,000 miles our first year -- absolutely *NOT* recommended for anyone like us on a budget! We learned the magic money card can be maxed out! OTOH, it's quite easy to live within your means if you're not driving around in circles all the time. There is one couple who alternate between a winter LTVA and a summer LTVA (higher altitude; eastern Sierras). They drive their motorhome a short distance to town every week or two as needed and put $20 worth of gas in the tank each trip. By the time winter is over, their tank is full and they have enough fuel to drive up to their summer camp = same thing there = accumulating fuel over the season to drive back down to their winter camp. They had their LTVA fees = approx. $30 a month in the winter -- maybe closer to $60 a month in the summer but these almost always include a place to dump your tanks and FREE water so it all kinda' works out even though that minimal fee (or budget item) is one we've avoided completely thus far. Depending on your location, you can (as we currently do) discharge your graywater into the adjacent vegetation and dump your toilet into a gopher hole (hand dug or otherwise). This saves the expense and hassle of having to move your rig to dump your tanks. A porta-potti is an even easier solution to the blackwater problem as it can be carried off to dump somewhere (just after sunset is my favorite time to do this = fewer witnesses) or emptied down any conventional public toilet or pit toilet. The options out here are endless and limited only by your imagination. The only big question is IF you are able to disconnect yourself from a lifetime of programming and supporting the dominant paradigm where the rich get richer and the rest of us are permitted to suck air. Free your mind and your butt will follow
For someone on an extremely low budget, I don't believe that a vehicle (at least not one which runs) is necessary as long as it has a towbar. In these areas and fluid communities we now call home, you can always ask around and find someone willing to tow you just about anywhere for the cost of fuel and a few extra bucks or a six pack of cold beer. If I had to really keep it to the bone, I'd just have a simple and cheap bumper pull trailer of some kind and make friends with someone who can tow it back and forth between my various happy hunting grounds. Our neighbor Jerry across the street here at The Slabs bought a gutted (non-running) motorhome on round and rolling tires for $85. He and his wife built on a large front porch and enclosed it with shade cloth (cooler and keeps out what few bugs we have around here). Now they have a place to BE all winter long for FREE. (They are 'snowbirds' like us though not retired yet as we are -- he does asphalt work in South Dakota where they have a paid-for house until it gets too cold and they shut the hot plants down. Then they come down here and dink around for the winter months.) These options exist. The real question is, "Can you ratchet down your expectations enough to be comfortable and happy living this way?" There is no judgment if you can't but at least you should know the REAL reason WHY you're not living this way already if it's something you think you want to try. Don't blame circumstances beyond your control if you're not willing to change those few things which ARE within your control. I give this lifestyle two enthusiastic thumbs UP and my highest recommendation. I've never felt more FREE or had less stress in my 63 years. Lean into something a little outside your comfort zone and you will surprise yourself with how absolutely low cost and FREE your life can be My standard advice to everyone is, "Go cheap; go small; go NOW!" Tomorrow is not guaranteed to any of us. LIVE while you can -- one day it will be too late -- and all your excuses and wringing of hands will be for naught. Better to try and have it not work out for some reason (which is how we all learn) than to never have tried at all.==========
sail4free
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