do LTVAs require black water holding tanks in your vehicle?

[[email protected]]

in vrHi folks,
I am a bit confused, please explain if you have the answers. I am contemplating  living as a nomad and the question came up, do LTVAs require black water holding tanks? I know that officially some LTVAs as well as national parks require "self containment" in certain areas which they define as at least a ten gallon black water holding tank permanently attached to the vehicle. Yet I see in the videos about the rtr and the interviews that people are staying in their cars and tents (Bob's van amongst them) without black water holding tanks. I will be staying in a make shift camper without that as well. So what is the status of this? Is there such a rule at the LTVAs near Quartzite? If so, does it only apply to certain areas? or is it a rule that is not enforced because the space is just to large to enforce? I would hate to think that people in tents or in cars and vans would not be able to stay in the LTVAs. Please explain.
thanks so much.
Stewart

 

[Cammalu]

Stewart.

The rtr isn’t held on an LTVA so no matter. The LTVAs in the area do have a rule that if you aren’t self contained you have to park 500 feet from a toilet. I think it’s 500....

 

[rvwandering]

Cammalu is right. The RTR is not on a LTVA. It's BLM land with a 14 day limit.

 Here are the rules for LTVAs:

Bureau of Land Management – Long Term Visitor Areas – Supplementary Rules

17. Self-Contained Vehicles​

a. In Pilot Knob, Midland, Tamarisk, and Hot Springs LTVAs, you may camp only in self-contained camping units. The​

La Posa, Imperial Dam, and Mule Mountain LTVAs are restricted to self-contained camping units, except within 500 feet​

of a vault or rest room.​

b. Self-contained camping units must have a permanent, affixed waste water holding tank of 10-gallon minimum capacity.​

BLM does not consider port-a-potty systems, systems that utilize portable holding tanks, or permanent holding tanks of​

less than 10-gallon capacity, to be self-contained.

More info here: https://www.blm.gov/visit/midland-ltva

 

[John61CT]

Composting units like Airhead also don't count?

Note just having their required setup installed, doesn't mean that's what you have to use.

Responsibly always of course.

 

[[email protected]]

Thank you so much for your replies! But I am still a bit confused. Am I to understand then that if you are in a 14 day area, self containment re the onboard holding tank is not required? (of course I would be using a port a potty.)

Also, in a number of videos, Bob has mentioned to people living in their cars looking for a cheap place to park, LTVAs as an option. Obviously they aren't self contained, and Bob himself has mentioned staying at LTVAs with his van. So my impression is that these rules are not always enforced.

I wonder if they inspect your unit when they sell you the permit. If this rule is only sometimes enforced, common sense would say that it is when there are a lot of rvs and its really busy, and crowded- then sanitation is much more of a concern. But I am only guessing.

I am trying to figure this out because I have health issues, and it is not so easy for me to just pick up and move. So I am trying not to set my self up to get rousted out because I broke a rule.

Perhaps the safe thing is just bolt a holding tank under my truck to camper, and put a toilet in it I would never use. But I hate to go to the effort, and take up the space inside if it is unnecessary.

again, thank you all!
I am knew to this and just learning

 

[John61CT]

The requirement varies by location.

If required then thoroughly enforced.

Option to camp close to the facility is always there.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Thank you so much for your replies! But I am still a bit confused. Am I to understand then that if you are in a 14 day area, self containment re the onboard holding tank is not required? (of course I would be using a port a potty.)

In the 14 day free camping BLM areas, you are expected to deal with your waste, responsibly. You dont have to park within 500 feet of a facility because there are none (in most cases).

Also, in a number of videos, Bob has mentioned to people living in their cars looking for a cheap place to park, LTVAs as an option. Obviously they aren't self contained, and Bob himself has mentioned staying at LTVAs with his van. So my impression is that these rules are not always enforced.

In the LTVAs, the rangers will enforce this (usually just a verbal reminder). If you are camped with 500 feet of a vault toilet, you are fine. There are several scattered throughout the LTVAs around Quartzsite.

I wonder if they inspect your unit when they sell you the permit. 

No, but the rules are posted either inside the building or outside on a signboard, or both.

 

[highdesertranger]

you are correct, in the 14 day areas there is no requirement for holding tanks.

here are the rules straight from the government for the LTVA's(PFD),

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2007-09-25/pdf/E7-18896.pdf

here's a thread about them.

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=14981&highlight=ltva

there are no checks for tanks. but to a ranger making the rounds it will be obvious. the rules are enforced, you might get away with it for a short time but they will get you. anybody can drive in/through a LTVA, they don't stop you at the entrance. in fact only the main entrances have a staffed info center. the back ways in there is nothing to let you know you are in a LTVA.

the first time I stayed at a LTVA I had never heard of them and didn't even realize we were in one. of course Mr. Ranger still wanted his money.

highdesertranger

 

[Cammalu]

We had someone with a composting toilet and the ranger let him slide. That could just be that particular ranger however.

You’ll have plenty of room to park within 500 feet of a bathroom.

 

[[email protected]]

ok. Now I got it. Thank you all for your replies! I really appreciate it.

 

[Dingfelder]

Is the 500 feet business clearly marked, or do you have to guesstimate it?

 

[QinReno]

No markings - that's too much enforcement even for the feds, I think. In La Posa South in Quartzsite last Feb, I camped in my van approx 700-feet from the nearest toilet for a week and saw nary an enforcer of any sort. I could see the toilet from where I camped.

For reference, there was another campsite nearby which was strewn with gear, a small trailer, blown over tent and chairs, and even a car, but no humans. There was also an oxygen bottle laying on the ground. The guys nearby said that they had seen no one over there for more than week. They thought maybe the person  got ill and was taken to the hospital. There didn't seem to be any official people coming by to check on things.

 

[MrNoodly]

The narrow definition of "black water holding tanks" seems ridiculous to me. If someone is type who would dump a 5-gallon bucket of human waste on the ground, having an approved holding tank won't change him into someone who wouldn't just open a valve and dump 30 gallons of waste on the ground.

 

[orangeminnie]

There are MANY euro-style RVS, and pop-ups with removable black water tanks. I can't see any reason why these would need to be near a vault toilet. Can anyone explain.

 

[Quinn]

Stewart.

The rtr isn’t held on an LTVA so no matter. The LTVAs in the area do have a rule that if you aren’t self contained you have to park 500 feet from a toilet. I think it’s 500....

Good to know. Thankx for sharing. I can see how that requirement makes sens

 

[Lowflyermike]

Are they enforcing the rule strictly?

 

[B and C]

Yes. They fly a plane looking for "outliers" the outlier is then visited by a ranger.

 

[NctryBen]

Got my hand slapped... I moved. I was dumping my cassette (where I’m supposed to). was questioned. Next year, bigger cargo trailer with a bathroom and black tank. Would be easier anyways... I used one of their bathrooms once! Pee U! No thanks! Haha! Not sure how they can tell your black tank capacity... Now stuck in Sparky camp... wishing I had my wheeler about now too. You’d think they’d look the other way if your clearly being responsible. But I applaud them for what they do supply for what we pay. Great deal!

 

[matthew.swickard]

That is a shame about the black tank rule (though i get the reasoning for it - people can be douche canoes) but I was thinking of a carrot trailer build and just using one of those Laveo toilets that dont need a black tank, but sounds like that would cause issues with the LTVA folks

 

[RvNaut]

Understand that at LTVAs there are people that have traded two 7 hours days a week in exchange for their annual fee ( plus a wee stipend)... What is common is for one of the volunteers to travel a circuit looking for stickers, and to keep an eye on things.. in general someone will have eyes on your LTVA campsite at least once a week. So if someone without an obvious black tank is parked way out, it may not need a visit from a ranger to trigger enforcement.

The dump and water stations tend to be manned by sticker checkers, but not always.

Water at the SLTVA is shut off at 6pm.

and additional FYI

The La Posa South LTVA leach field is at capacity. There is black fencing up just inside the South La Posa Tyson Wash entrance. Over the next year(?) a 10+ station RV dump and water station is being built and once in operation the La Posa side will be deactivated.